<!--QuoteBegin-Edgecrusher+Mar 5 2004, 01:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Mar 5 2004, 01:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Luckily from the short time i have idled on #nsmapping this hasn't happened to me. Hopefully its a one off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah right Olmy. We all know that everyone abuse you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just kidding. I wasn't around when the above happened, but I always try to answer questions if I can/have the time when I'm there.
By the way, Zazi is funny that way. He bans and kicks people for fun, basically. I don't think he means any offense, I've been kicked (and twice banned) often from #nsmapping. I just find it amusing.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Mar 5 2004, 06:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Mar 5 2004, 06:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Edit: Lets not turn this thread to the "Unban Me" thread. If you really have a problem with your ban, talk to Zazi in a mature manner and I'm sure he will be reasonable about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> FYI, I did PM Zazi shortly after the ban and it only got me more ridicule and an ignore: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[20:13 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> y r u bein such an ****? [20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> i'm not... i was instructeb by ferret... he is the ****, if there is one [20:13 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> who's he? [20:13 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> and I thought u controlled the chan [20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> uh... ferret... von`ferret... heh [20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> yus [20:13 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> oh [20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> BUT HE IS MY MASTER [20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> I AM HIS SLAVE! [20:14 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> whateva [20:14 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> imature and very unhelpful channel it's become [20:14 04/03/2004] <Zazi> lovely... maybe if you mapped something that was half way decent and took in advice, people would like you [20:15 04/03/2004] <Zazi> you have been granted the honor of being added to my /ignore list now... kbai [20:15 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> it does look half way decent <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mr Ben, I'm aware of what many of you are trying to do, but when incidents like this happen, it's going to discredit everything. With it continuing like this, without being corrected, you're going to end up with a lot of work and a tarnished reputation.
I founded UnitedAdmins.com and led it for over a year and a half, growing it into a very large, helpful community. It's not easy, but I had an extremely low tolerance level for this kind of thing.
What's even more interesting, is that Thursday behaved simular to how von`ferret did and he got banned, not the mapper asking the question.
It seems most of my problem in there, is that some mappers, including Zazi, don't care for my co_freefall map. They probably don't even care for any "fun" map. The map looks beyond "half-way decent" and I've taken in suggestions and tried all sorts of things that players have commented on. That's why I'm releasing beta 17 this morning.
I commend you on your efforts in what you're trying to accomplish for the community, but I was extremely disrespected and wrongfully banned. More disappointing, is that it came from the channel owner.
Anyway, good luck with what you're doing. I would have helped long ago, but I just don't see the longevity in it with some of the people involved there. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have a better idea. HoundDawg, why not PM Zazi on IRC rather than airing your dirty laundry on here. I wasn't around at the time and have no idea what the circumstances were. It would appear that you and Zazi are the ones concerned, not anyone else in the channel, and certainly not the NS Mapping Forum.
As to #nsmapping, yes, we do have a whole range of skilled people idling. Some people i've had to explain what a brush is, others need help on stuff that's just beyond me. Generally we can help, and will be happy to help., please don't let isolated incidents like this intimidate anyone into thinking that we're a hostile, immature group, we're not.
Well, not hostile at least. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*EDIT: It would appear, HoundDawg, that you've only been banned for 13 hours. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[17:20] -ChanServ- *!*@HoundDawg.user.gamesurge zazi 13 hours and 8 minutes I have been instructed by Ferret, to direct you to #mapcore for problems. \\Zazibot Program Complete.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Mar 5 2004, 07:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Mar 5 2004, 07:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [17:20] -ChanServ- *!*@HoundDawg.user.gamesurge zazi 13 hours and 8 minutes I have been instructed by Ferret, to direct you to #mapcore for problems. \\Zazibot Program Complete. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's how long the ban has been set.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Mar 5 2004, 05:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Mar 5 2004, 05:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Mar 5 2004, 07:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Mar 5 2004, 07:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [17:20] -ChanServ- *!*@HoundDawg.user.gamesurge zazi 13 hours and 8 minutes I have been instructed by Ferret, to direct you to #mapcore for problems. \\Zazibot Program Complete. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's how long the ban has been set.
!addban is a perma-ban. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ahh right, consider me noob op. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm used to being an op with normal /mode bans and stuff, none of this fancy pants !addban stuff.
I think much of the problem here is that #nsmapping goes through mood swings. I've been there to see it happen, and probably a lot of other people there would agree. Some days you can find some of the most helpful people in the world there... willing to spend twenty minutes trying to explain what a brush is. Others you get !addban for seemingly nothing. Usually zazi seems to either A) calm down, or B) forget why he banned you, so a polite unban request will work.
In general I guess many people see #nsmapping as more of a problem-solving area than an instructive one. Phrasing questions to suit this may let you get away with asking for instructions instead of doing your own homework. For instance asking "Does anyone have ideas for how to make and use a forcefield construction/gameplay-wise?" would have probably generated half an hour of debate on the gameplay considerations of forcefields.... in addition to a brief bit of speculation on making them.
I guess i'm saying that as semi-benevolent dictator of #nsmapping, Zazi doesn't want to listen to people who aren't thinking/researching for themselves. Sometimes you can get tut directions. Knowing that you should be asking for tut directions in a case like this generally gets you more help. Honestly it's his channel, he has op, it's his rules. If you don't like it use another resource.... like forum based pms, or google.
We have now some clear rules. <a href='http://nsmapping.thezazi.net/nsmaprules.txt' target='_blank'>Here</a>
Most bans are gone now. We'd like it to be a friendly place, well that's what I'd like myself, if we could avoid flaming and such things, you know, that kind of things that should be discussed on PMs...
<!--QuoteBegin-HoundDawg+Mar 5 2004, 02:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HoundDawg @ Mar 5 2004, 02:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (removed non-relevant lines): <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOLOL!!! My own IRC log with your irrelivent lines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->. You were told the answer and ignored it <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [21:02] <HoundDawg-WWG-> anyone here know how to do a good force field like in some of the NS/Co maps? [21:02] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> I fix things that people would probally not even notice [21:02] <PS_Mouse> <b><span style='color:red'>func_wall</span></b> [21:02] <von`ferret> My car has a scratch under it, should I go in and fix it? [21:02] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> <b><span style='color:red'>Yeah func_wall probally set to addative</span></b> [21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> I want that .... laser field look [21:03] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> lol [21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> like in star trek... etc [21:03] <von`ferret> ew [21:03] <von`ferret> ew ew ew ew [21:03] <von`ferret> just do a skybox like in hera <span style='color:yellow'><- Probly ment Tanith</span> [21:03] <von`ferret> honestly [21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> hera doesn't have a force field <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just drew out somthing that was answered already and pestered people.
I just checked over my logs as well (this was [04:02] GMT) and yeah, Caboose was right, his question was answered immediately, and he did ignore it.
To be honest, HoundDawg, we'd all appreciate it if you didn't go around giving #nsmapping a bad image, just because you got banned for being overpersistant and ignoring the advice of others. Your question was answered, you deemed it "non-relevant" and didn't pipe down for some time after. Also, the additional fact that you edited out the "non-relevant" lines which actually answer your question does <b>nothing</b> to help your case.
Now, please, can you drop the entire matter, and stop whatever crusade you're on to make us look bad, you lied, you were caught out.
Sorry to everyone that this is getting aired all over these forums, these aren't our forums and are really no place for such whining.
Guys, those func_wall replies were not the answers. If you look toward the end of the first log, you'll notice that I was looking for the texture and even a little more on how it was animated to look like a field. Simply specifying func_wall and additive is hardly enough to get the job done.
You say that I should have PMed Zazi about it. I did, and if you read my posts, you'll see that he just ignored me. This would have been long resolved if handled more professionally.
This isn't a crusade and don't try to turn the table around. The logs clearly show the wrongful actions done in the channel. In fact, if you look at the new "rules", you'll see that both farret and Zazi broke several of them.
Anyway, at least a set of rules was made, we can only hope that they're enforced and followed (even by the channel leaders). Thanks Mendasp!
FYI, I had to decompile co_kestrel in order to see how the field there was done. I found the texture and the other settings that are needed to give it the force field effect. All of which, I didn't get out of the channel.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [21:02] <HoundDawg-WWG-><b> anyone here know how to do a good force field like in some of the NS/Co maps?</b> [21:02] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> I fix things that people would probally not even notice [21:02] <PS_Mouse><b> func_wall</b> [21:02] <von`ferret> My car has a scratch under it, should I go in and fix it? [21:02] <KungFuDiscoMonkey><b> Yeah func_wall probally set to addative</b> [21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> I want that .... laser field look [21:03] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> lol [21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> like in star trek... etc [21:03] <von`ferret> ew
[20:11 04/03/2004] <+HoundDawg-WWG-> so nobody knows how to do a force field or can point me to a tut for one? [20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> <b> HoundDawg func_wall</b> [20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse><b> rendermode additive</b> [20:12 04/03/2004] <+von`ferret> PS_Mouse you'll have to explain to him what entities are first [20:12 04/03/2004] <+von`ferret> lol [20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> renderamount 100 [20:12 04/03/2004] <+HoundDawg-WWG-> PS_Mouse: yeah, that's easy [20:12 04/03/2004] <+HoundDawg-WWG-> <b>but, what tex do they normally use?</b> [20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> umm [20:12 04/03/2004] <b><+KungFuDiscoMonkey> Whatever texture you want to use</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I at least responded to what texture to use. You can use whatever texture you want to. You can use floor textures for wall textures whatever the heck you want to use. Don't go giving #nsmapping a bad name just because we won't hold your hand and walk you through every bit of mapping. You have to learn to do things for yourself eventually.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Mar 5 2004, 04:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Mar 5 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HoundDawg+Mar 5 2004, 03:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HoundDawg @ Mar 5 2004, 03:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> umm [20:12 04/03/2004] <+KungFuDiscoMonkey> Whatever texture you want to use [20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> idunno <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I at least responded to what texture to use. You can use whatever texture you want to. You can use floor textures for wall textures whatever the heck you want to use. Don't go giving #nsmapping a bad name just because we won't hold your hand and walk you through every bit of mapping. You have to learn to do things for yourself eventually. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, and thank you for at least trying to help. But, by that point, Ferret and Zazi were already issuing the ban on me. Before going to that channel and asking, I had searched 5 different mapping sites, google, and the forums, with no fitting answer.
So, I guess... then the issue is that a person asks a question, doesn't like some of the alternative suggestions, just looking for an answer to the question, finally gets better help... only to eventually get banned from the channel because someone felt offended because their alternate suggestion wasn't accepted. This doesn't seem like a good and proper way to conduct a friendly and helpful channel.
Edit: All I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how it was done, if so, how. If they didn't, a simple "sorry, I don't know exactly, but how about trying..." would have worked. Then, I would have went off and tried a bunch of things on my own (again).
<!--QuoteBegin-HoundDawg+Mar 5 2004, 11:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HoundDawg @ Mar 5 2004, 11:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Guys, those func_wall replies were not the answers. If you look toward the end of the first log, you'll notice that I was looking for the texture and even a little more on how it was animated to look like a field. Simply specifying func_wall and additive is hardly enough to get the job done.
You say that I should have PMed Zazi about it. I did, and if you read my posts, you'll see that he just ignored me. This would have been long resolved if handled more professionally.
This isn't a crusade and don't try to turn the table around. The logs clearly show the wrongful actions done in the channel. In fact, if you look at the new "rules", you'll see that both farret and Zazi broke several of them.
Anyway, at least a set of rules was made, we can only hope that they're enforced and followed (even by the channel leaders). Thanks Mendasp!
FYI, I had to decompile co_kestrel in order to see how the field there was done. I found the texture and the other settings that are needed to give it the force field effect. All of which, I didn't get out of the channel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Look, you asked for <b>mapping</b> help in a <b>mapping</b> channel and the answer you recieved was <b>how to map it</b>. And that was an exact answer. You <i>should</i> have asked straight off what the texture was, or how to do that exact effect, since all of us know, and i know for a fact i have 1 or 2 aniamted force field textures lying around.
The thing which puzzles me. You're complaining about the we were being immature and breaking our own rules, maybe so, maybe everyone's behaviour was out of line, but there is a thing you must realise. <b>ALL</b> ban disputes should be disputed with those responsible and <b>not aired in a public forum</b>. Not just that, #nsmapping isn't really an "official" channel, so to speak, it's just run by the mapping community, unlike #naturalselection which is run by the NS.org staff.
Because of the fact that it is an independant community, this means that we have NO official ties with the Natural Selection forums, technically. Yes we all read / post here, that is granted, but these are not our forums and <b>NOT</b> the place to be disputing a ban on a channel which is not officially part of these forums.
You may notice if you get banned from a game server and whine about it on these forums, the thread will recieve a swift lock because <b>it should be disputed with those concerned</b>, i would presume the same applies, since #nsmapping is as "official" to NS as any privately owned and operated NS game server.
<i>YOU TOO</i> are being immature, and you paint a VERY poor image of #nsmapping based on a single isolated incident, this is infuriating since we are trying to make #nsmapping a friendly and fun place to hang out, we want more people to feel that they have a place to turn if they need mapping help, or just want to hang out with mappers in a friendly atmosphere, but with blowing things out of all proportions, such as you have done, and throwing around insults does nothing to help us, and all just because you got banned.
<!--QuoteBegin-HoundDawg+Mar 5 2004, 06:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HoundDawg @ Mar 5 2004, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, and thank you for at least trying to help. But, by that point, Ferret and Zazi were already issuing the ban on me. Before going to that channel and asking, I had searched 5 different mapping sites, google, and the forums, with no fitting answer.
So, I guess... then the issue is that a person asks a question, doesn't like some of the alternative suggestions, just looking for an answer to the question, finally gets better help... only to eventually get banned from the channel because someone felt offended because their alternate suggestion wasn't accepted. This doesn't seem like a good and proper way to conduct a friendly and helpful channel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe you should have specified more clearly that you wanted to know what kind of texture you were using and what kind of texture effect you were going for before you started giving Ferret and Zazi ammo to use against you.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Mar 5 2004, 04:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Mar 5 2004, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HoundDawg+Mar 5 2004, 06:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HoundDawg @ Mar 5 2004, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, and thank you for at least trying to help. But, by that point, Ferret and Zazi were already issuing the ban on me. Before going to that channel and asking, I had searched 5 different mapping sites, google, and the forums, with no fitting answer.
So, I guess... then the issue is that a person asks a question, doesn't like some of the alternative suggestions, just looking for an answer to the question, finally gets better help... only to eventually get banned from the channel because someone felt offended because their alternate suggestion wasn't accepted. This doesn't seem like a good and proper way to conduct a friendly and helpful channel. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe you should have specified more clearly that you wanted to know what kind of texture you were using and what kind of texture effect you were going for before you started giving Ferret and Zazi ammo to use against you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They had already derailed the topic off before I even got down to realizing that it was a texture and not some other entity (like func_conveyor or env_beam) to get it working the way I wanted.
Anyway, stop being defensive on whether or not my question was answered, because it was answered close to the end. It was all the BS toward the beginning and middle that spurred on the ban, which should never have happened (even rules are in place that spell it out now).
FYI, I'm still banned from the channel and Zazi has me on ignore. This has left me with no other avenue but this thread. And it is on topic, because this thread announces that this channel is a friendly place to get mapping answers. I'm only showing an instance where this isn't the case.
It's not a one time thing either. I'm sure I can look back into the logs and find several other people and incidents where similar things happened to innocent mappers.
Also, even though it's not an "official" mapping channel run by NS.org, it was still webbed in the forums, which provides a level of acceptance. So, why support a channel where mappers get banned for trying to get help? This is the question at hand here.
Of course you'll see incidents of banning, hounddawg, this doesn't mean it isn't a nice channel to be in, nearly every irc channel has a banning. This doesn't mean it's not a helpful channel either. I also bet if you went through all your logs you'll find a **** load more instances were peoples problems were solved with zero problems.
#nsmapping offers a free service to nsmappers, we do all we can to support the ns mapping community. We have: - An IRC channel filled with a bunch of experienced mappers available to answer your questions and offer advice and feedback on your screenshots. -Soon we'll have a site which we aim to be a comprehesive guide/helper thingy majig for nsmappers filled with tutorials, guides, resources and various other gubbins and hell, i may even write a "make a force field" tutorial for you. -Soon we'll have servers which will make available to PT their maps.
Why support us? Because we go out of our way to help you as best we can, because we're a nice bunch of people and the IRC channel is a good laugh to chat in, because were trying to support a community, because we're trying to build our own mini community within that? You pick.
If you don't like #nsmapping you do not <b>need</b> to come to the channel but i don't see what isn't too like, all we're doing is trying to help people and have fun. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'll be adding an #nsmapping entry to the FAQ as it is a good place to get NS mapping questions answered, but I think this thread needs to die.
HoundDawg, I understand you feel that you've been wronged, but this forum isn't the place for your soapbox. There are better ways to communicate with the #nsmapping admin, and most of us don't need the drama.
Comments
Yeah right Olmy. We all know that everyone abuse you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just kidding. I wasn't around when the above happened, but I always try to answer questions if I can/have the time when I'm there.
By the way, Zazi is funny that way. He bans and kicks people for fun, basically. I don't think he means any offense, I've been kicked (and twice banned) often from #nsmapping. I just find it amusing.
FYI, I did PM Zazi shortly after the ban and it only got me more ridicule and an ignore:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[20:13 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> y r u bein such an ****?
[20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> i'm not... i was instructeb by ferret... he is the ****, if there is one
[20:13 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> who's he?
[20:13 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> and I thought u controlled the chan
[20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> uh... ferret... von`ferret... heh
[20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> yus
[20:13 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> oh
[20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> BUT HE IS MY MASTER
[20:13 04/03/2004] <Zazi> I AM HIS SLAVE!
[20:14 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> whateva
[20:14 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> imature and very unhelpful channel it's become
[20:14 04/03/2004] <Zazi> lovely... maybe if you mapped something that was half way decent and took in advice, people would like you
[20:15 04/03/2004] <Zazi> you have been granted the honor of being added to my /ignore list now... kbai
[20:15 04/03/2004] <HoundDawg-WWG-> it does look half way decent
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I founded UnitedAdmins.com and led it for over a year and a half, growing it into a very large, helpful community. It's not easy, but I had an extremely low tolerance level for this kind of thing.
What's even more interesting, is that Thursday behaved simular to how von`ferret did and he got banned, not the mapper asking the question.
It seems most of my problem in there, is that some mappers, including Zazi, don't care for my co_freefall map. They probably don't even care for any "fun" map. The map looks beyond "half-way decent" and I've taken in suggestions and tried all sorts of things that players have commented on. That's why I'm releasing beta 17 this morning.
I commend you on your efforts in what you're trying to accomplish for the community, but I was extremely disrespected and wrongfully banned. More disappointing, is that it came from the channel owner.
Anyway, good luck with what you're doing. I would have helped long ago, but I just don't see the longevity in it with some of the people involved there. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As to #nsmapping, yes, we do have a whole range of skilled people idling. Some people i've had to explain what a brush is, others need help on stuff that's just beyond me. Generally we can help, and will be happy to help., please don't let isolated incidents like this intimidate anyone into thinking that we're a hostile, immature group, we're not.
Well, not hostile at least. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*EDIT: It would appear, HoundDawg, that you've only been banned for 13 hours.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[17:20] -ChanServ- *!*@HoundDawg.user.gamesurge zazi 13 hours and 8 minutes
I have been instructed by Ferret, to direct you to #mapcore for problems. \\Zazibot Program Complete.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have been instructed by Ferret, to direct you to #mapcore for problems. \\Zazibot Program Complete. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's how long the ban has been set.
!addban is a perma-ban.
I have been instructed by Ferret, to direct you to #mapcore for problems. \\Zazibot Program Complete. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's how long the ban has been set.
!addban is a perma-ban. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh right, consider me noob op. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm used to being an op with normal /mode bans and stuff, none of this fancy pants !addban stuff.
In general I guess many people see #nsmapping as more of a problem-solving area than an instructive one. Phrasing questions to suit this may let you get away with asking for instructions instead of doing your own homework. For instance asking "Does anyone have ideas for how to make and use a forcefield construction/gameplay-wise?" would have probably generated half an hour of debate on the gameplay considerations of forcefields.... in addition to a brief bit of speculation on making them.
I guess i'm saying that as semi-benevolent dictator of #nsmapping, Zazi doesn't want to listen to people who aren't thinking/researching for themselves. Sometimes you can get tut directions. Knowing that you should be asking for tut directions in a case like this generally gets you more help. Honestly it's his channel, he has op, it's his rules. If you don't like it use another resource.... like forum based pms, or google.
Most bans are gone now. We'd like it to be a friendly place, well that's what I'd like myself, if we could avoid flaming and such things, you know, that kind of things that should be discussed on PMs...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOLOL!!!
My own IRC log with your irrelivent lines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->. You were told the answer and ignored it
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[21:02] <HoundDawg-WWG-> anyone here know how to do a good force field like in some of the NS/Co maps?
[21:02] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> I fix things that people would probally not even notice
[21:02] <PS_Mouse> <b><span style='color:red'>func_wall</span></b>
[21:02] <von`ferret> My car has a scratch under it, should I go in and fix it?
[21:02] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> <b><span style='color:red'>Yeah func_wall probally set to addative</span></b>
[21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> I want that .... laser field look
[21:03] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> lol
[21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> like in star trek... etc
[21:03] <von`ferret> ew
[21:03] <von`ferret> ew ew ew ew
[21:03] <von`ferret> just do a skybox like in hera <span style='color:yellow'><- Probly ment Tanith</span>
[21:03] <von`ferret> honestly
[21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> hera doesn't have a force field
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just drew out somthing that was answered already and pestered people.
To be honest, HoundDawg, we'd all appreciate it if you didn't go around giving #nsmapping a bad image, just because you got banned for being overpersistant and ignoring the advice of others. Your question was answered, you deemed it "non-relevant" and didn't pipe down for some time after. Also, the additional fact that you edited out the "non-relevant" lines which actually answer your question does <b>nothing</b> to help your case.
Now, please, can you drop the entire matter, and stop whatever crusade you're on to make us look bad, you lied, you were caught out.
Sorry to everyone that this is getting aired all over these forums, these aren't our forums and are really no place for such whining.
You say that I should have PMed Zazi about it. I did, and if you read my posts, you'll see that he just ignored me. This would have been long resolved if handled more professionally.
This isn't a crusade and don't try to turn the table around. The logs clearly show the wrongful actions done in the channel. In fact, if you look at the new "rules", you'll see that both farret and Zazi broke several of them.
Anyway, at least a set of rules was made, we can only hope that they're enforced and followed (even by the channel leaders). Thanks Mendasp!
FYI, I had to decompile co_kestrel in order to see how the field there was done. I found the texture and the other settings that are needed to give it the force field effect. All of which, I didn't get out of the channel.
[21:02] <HoundDawg-WWG-><b> anyone here know how to do a good force field like in some of the NS/Co maps?</b>
[21:02] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> I fix things that people would probally not even notice
[21:02] <PS_Mouse><b> func_wall</b>
[21:02] <von`ferret> My car has a scratch under it, should I go in and fix it?
[21:02] <KungFuDiscoMonkey><b> Yeah func_wall probally set to addative</b>
[21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> I want that .... laser field look
[21:03] <KungFuDiscoMonkey> lol
[21:03] <HoundDawg-WWG-> like in star trek... etc
[21:03] <von`ferret> ew
[20:11 04/03/2004] <+HoundDawg-WWG-> so nobody knows how to do a force field or can point me to a tut for one?
[20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> <b> HoundDawg func_wall</b>
[20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse><b> rendermode additive</b>
[20:12 04/03/2004] <+von`ferret> PS_Mouse you'll have to explain to him what entities are first
[20:12 04/03/2004] <+von`ferret> lol
[20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> renderamount 100
[20:12 04/03/2004] <+HoundDawg-WWG-> PS_Mouse: yeah, that's easy
[20:12 04/03/2004] <+HoundDawg-WWG-> <b>but, what tex do they normally use?</b>
[20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> umm
[20:12 04/03/2004] <b><+KungFuDiscoMonkey> Whatever texture you want to use</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I at least responded to what texture to use. You can use whatever texture you want to. You can use floor textures for wall textures whatever the heck you want to use. Don't go giving #nsmapping a bad name just because we won't hold your hand and walk you through every bit of mapping. You have to learn to do things for yourself eventually.
Edit: To show more info
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
[20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> umm
[20:12 04/03/2004] <+KungFuDiscoMonkey> Whatever texture you want to use
[20:12 04/03/2004] <@PS_Mouse> idunno
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I at least responded to what texture to use. You can use whatever texture you want to. You can use floor textures for wall textures whatever the heck you want to use. Don't go giving #nsmapping a bad name just because we won't hold your hand and walk you through every bit of mapping. You have to learn to do things for yourself eventually. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, and thank you for at least trying to help. But, by that point, Ferret and Zazi were already issuing the ban on me. Before going to that channel and asking, I had searched 5 different mapping sites, google, and the forums, with no fitting answer.
So, I guess... then the issue is that a person asks a question, doesn't like some of the alternative suggestions, just looking for an answer to the question, finally gets better help... only to eventually get banned from the channel because someone felt offended because their alternate suggestion wasn't accepted. This doesn't seem like a good and proper way to conduct a friendly and helpful channel.
Edit: All I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how it was done, if so, how. If they didn't, a simple "sorry, I don't know exactly, but how about trying..." would have worked. Then, I would have went off and tried a bunch of things on my own (again).
You say that I should have PMed Zazi about it. I did, and if you read my posts, you'll see that he just ignored me. This would have been long resolved if handled more professionally.
This isn't a crusade and don't try to turn the table around. The logs clearly show the wrongful actions done in the channel. In fact, if you look at the new "rules", you'll see that both farret and Zazi broke several of them.
Anyway, at least a set of rules was made, we can only hope that they're enforced and followed (even by the channel leaders). Thanks Mendasp!
FYI, I had to decompile co_kestrel in order to see how the field there was done. I found the texture and the other settings that are needed to give it the force field effect. All of which, I didn't get out of the channel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, you asked for <b>mapping</b> help in a <b>mapping</b> channel and the answer you recieved was <b>how to map it</b>. And that was an exact answer. You <i>should</i> have asked straight off what the texture was, or how to do that exact effect, since all of us know, and i know for a fact i have 1 or 2 aniamted force field textures lying around.
The thing which puzzles me. You're complaining about the we were being immature and breaking our own rules, maybe so, maybe everyone's behaviour was out of line, but there is a thing you must realise. <b>ALL</b> ban disputes should be disputed with those responsible and <b>not aired in a public forum</b>. Not just that, #nsmapping isn't really an "official" channel, so to speak, it's just run by the mapping community, unlike #naturalselection which is run by the NS.org staff.
Because of the fact that it is an independant community, this means that we have NO official ties with the Natural Selection forums, technically. Yes we all read / post here, that is granted, but these are not our forums and <b>NOT</b> the place to be disputing a ban on a channel which is not officially part of these forums.
You may notice if you get banned from a game server and whine about it on these forums, the thread will recieve a swift lock because <b>it should be disputed with those concerned</b>, i would presume the same applies, since #nsmapping is as "official" to NS as any privately owned and operated NS game server.
<i>YOU TOO</i> are being immature, and you paint a VERY poor image of #nsmapping based on a single isolated incident, this is infuriating since we are trying to make #nsmapping a friendly and fun place to hang out, we want more people to feel that they have a place to turn if they need mapping help, or just want to hang out with mappers in a friendly atmosphere, but with blowing things out of all proportions, such as you have done, and throwing around insults does nothing to help us, and all just because you got banned.
So, I guess... then the issue is that a person asks a question, doesn't like some of the alternative suggestions, just looking for an answer to the question, finally gets better help... only to eventually get banned from the channel because someone felt offended because their alternate suggestion wasn't accepted. This doesn't seem like a good and proper way to conduct a friendly and helpful channel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you should have specified more clearly that you wanted to know what kind of texture you were using and what kind of texture effect you were going for before you started giving Ferret and Zazi ammo to use against you.
So, I guess... then the issue is that a person asks a question, doesn't like some of the alternative suggestions, just looking for an answer to the question, finally gets better help... only to eventually get banned from the channel because someone felt offended because their alternate suggestion wasn't accepted. This doesn't seem like a good and proper way to conduct a friendly and helpful channel. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you should have specified more clearly that you wanted to know what kind of texture you were using and what kind of texture effect you were going for before you started giving Ferret and Zazi ammo to use against you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They had already derailed the topic off before I even got down to realizing that it was a texture and not some other entity (like func_conveyor or env_beam) to get it working the way I wanted.
Anyway, stop being defensive on whether or not my question was answered, because it was answered close to the end. It was all the BS toward the beginning and middle that spurred on the ban, which should never have happened (even rules are in place that spell it out now).
FYI, I'm still banned from the channel and Zazi has me on ignore. This has left me with no other avenue but this thread. And it is on topic, because this thread announces that this channel is a friendly place to get mapping answers. I'm only showing an instance where this isn't the case.
It's not a one time thing either. I'm sure I can look back into the logs and find several other people and incidents where similar things happened to innocent mappers.
Also, even though it's not an "official" mapping channel run by NS.org, it was still webbed in the forums, which provides a level of acceptance. So, why support a channel where mappers get banned for trying to get help? This is the question at hand here.
#nsmapping offers a free service to nsmappers, we do all we can to support the ns mapping community. We have:
- An IRC channel filled with a bunch of experienced mappers available to answer your questions and offer advice and feedback on your screenshots.
-Soon we'll have a site which we aim to be a comprehesive guide/helper thingy majig for nsmappers filled with tutorials, guides, resources and various other gubbins and hell, i may even write a "make a force field" tutorial for you.
-Soon we'll have servers which will make available to PT their maps.
Why support us? Because we go out of our way to help you as best we can, because we're a nice bunch of people and the IRC channel is a good laugh to chat in, because were trying to support a community, because we're trying to build our own mini community within that? You pick.
If you don't like #nsmapping you do not <b>need</b> to come to the channel but i don't see what isn't too like, all we're doing is trying to help people and have fun. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
HoundDawg, I understand you feel that you've been wronged, but this forum isn't the place for your soapbox. There are better ways to communicate with the #nsmapping admin, and most of us don't need the drama.
<span style='color:red'>*Locked*</span>