<!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Sep 13 2003, 05:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 13 2003, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Rennex+Sep 13 2003, 11:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Sep 13 2003, 11:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Sep 13 2003, 11:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 13 2003, 11:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DeadlyEagle+Sep 12 2003, 10:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeadlyEagle @ Sep 12 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you all talking about skull rushes but when the hive is close enough a shotgun rush can b just as effective. The prob is if it fails you will have lost the round before it started.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. Either way, a shotgun rush ends the game in a few minutes, wether it fails or not. Shotgun rushes are pointless and NOT FUN at all, and frankly, should be taken out of the early game to prevent rushing. Anything that can 'end the game' so quickly and inevitably is crap. Imagine if the onos had all abilities at hive 1. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines shotgun rush.
1) They fail. They all die. They've spent 100+ resources getting their whole team shotguns and medkits. The aliens have it incredibly easy now, and usually most marines at this point say "Damn, we lost, GG aliens".
2) They succeed. Hive dies. Game ends.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You say that anything that can end a game should be taken out of the early game right? Well what about those game ending skulk rushes that most people are talking about? Those can end a game very fast with just the skulk bitegun. Do you want skulks to have just parasite as their main weapon early game then? Shotguns are aviable early game to help counter those early game skulk rushes. a comm drops a couple of shottys those marines stand guard while the others build, skulk rush comes in the shottys will give the others time to stop building and help defend at least. Games are ended by rushes because of lack of preparation, simple as that. Expect a rush every game, to stop shotty rushes uses ambush tatics, get the marines from behind. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a big difference between a skulk and a shotgun. Skulks are weak and are easy to stop. Shotguns are not, in the LEAST bit easy to stop in the early game. Furthermore, skulks were DESIGNED to be a rush unit. Shotguns were not, the cheap cost and easy availability was just a side effect. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem with that rush is mostly that it's a one-shot strategy if *done from the start*. Just dropping the shotguns asap and rushing is stupid. Realising that aliens are spread thin and jumping at the opportunity for a win is smart.
And puhlease don't complain about shotgun rushes being over-powered. I see about 1 in 8 succedd. Most likely a skulk will run into the Marines, yel "Shotgun rush!" and when you make it to the hive you have a couple of gorges healing everything, some OC's shooting you and you're choking on spores.
The only time a shotgun rush works is when it is not expected. If the aliens have 30 sec to prepare for it it is doomed to fail.
I consider a 'rush' a quick charge with everything you have in the early game, and that's generally what it's referred as in every game. I 'rush' of battlecruisers in Starcraft... isnt' a rush, it's a late-game tactic, just like using shotguns 5 minutes in the game to take a hive.
Everything I've been referring to about shotguns so far means within 1 or 2 minutes of game start.
I think shotguns are an okay weapon. I'm just saying they should be harder to acquire, because you don't necesarially NEED a shotgun in the early game, all they are MAINLY used for is for the comm to litter them about in a one-shot rush which will probably fail, and the marines are crippled.
(Bleh, it's hard to put into words what I mean. Shotguns completely ruin the early game, no matter how you look at it. How's that?)
<!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Sep 13 2003, 06:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 13 2003, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Blah Blah Blah (Bleh, it's hard to put into words what I mean. Shotguns completely ruin the early game, no matter how you look at it. How's that?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, I can only say, "Wow"
I think shotguns offer a very valid option early game. Hand out a couple and you have a group with more punch, as well as structure killing capacity. I often hand out two shotguns very early to go after their nodes. As long as you can keep them alive, it is usually a good investment.
Comments
Exactly. Either way, a shotgun rush ends the game in a few minutes, wether it fails or not. Shotgun rushes are pointless and NOT FUN at all, and frankly, should be taken out of the early game to prevent rushing. Anything that can 'end the game' so quickly and inevitably is crap. Imagine if the onos had all abilities at hive 1. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines shotgun rush.
1) They fail. They all die. They've spent 100+ resources getting their whole team shotguns and medkits. The aliens have it incredibly easy now, and usually most marines at this point say "Damn, we lost, GG aliens".
2) They succeed. Hive dies. Game ends.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You say that anything that can end a game should be taken out of the early game right? Well what about those game ending skulk rushes that most people are talking about? Those can end a game very fast with just the skulk bitegun. Do you want skulks to have just parasite as their main weapon early game then? Shotguns are aviable early game to help counter those early game skulk rushes. a comm drops a couple of shottys those marines stand guard while the others build, skulk rush comes in the shottys will give the others time to stop building and help defend at least. Games are ended by rushes because of lack of preparation, simple as that. Expect a rush every game, to stop shotty rushes uses ambush tatics, get the marines from behind. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a big difference between a skulk and a shotgun. Skulks are weak and are easy to stop. Shotguns are not, in the LEAST bit easy to stop in the early game. Furthermore, skulks were DESIGNED to be a rush unit. Shotguns were not, the cheap cost and easy availability was just a side effect. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with that rush is mostly that it's a one-shot strategy if *done from the start*. Just dropping the shotguns asap and rushing is stupid. Realising that aliens are spread thin and jumping at the opportunity for a win is smart.
And puhlease don't complain about shotgun rushes being over-powered. I see about 1 in 8 succedd. Most likely a skulk will run into the Marines, yel "Shotgun rush!" and when you make it to the hive you have a couple of gorges healing everything, some OC's shooting you and you're choking on spores.
The only time a shotgun rush works is when it is not expected. If the aliens have 30 sec to prepare for it it is doomed to fail.
I consider a 'rush' a quick charge with everything you have in the early game, and that's generally what it's referred as in every game. I 'rush' of battlecruisers in Starcraft... isnt' a rush, it's a late-game tactic, just like using shotguns 5 minutes in the game to take a hive.
Everything I've been referring to about shotguns so far means within 1 or 2 minutes of game start.
I think shotguns are an okay weapon. I'm just saying they should be harder to acquire, because you don't necesarially NEED a shotgun in the early game, all they are MAINLY used for is for the comm to litter them about in a one-shot rush which will probably fail, and the marines are crippled.
(Bleh, it's hard to put into words what I mean. Shotguns completely ruin the early game, no matter how you look at it. How's that?)
(Bleh, it's hard to put into words what I mean. Shotguns completely ruin the early game, no matter how you look at it. How's that?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, I can only say, "Wow"
If a team rushes and fails, well, they took the risk.
Shotty rushes are damn tough, but not anywhere close to unbeatable. Use a lerk + skulks + maybe a gorge or two and you can easily beat it.
People who think rushes make the game lame must really suck at NS.