/me waits for ubehagelig to create something for the community <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Eh, you guys should notice that ubehagelig is not a mapper. He is an advisor and "ideabringer" for mappers, like he is for me in ns_sanitarus. He pumps out all this carzy ideas on how to make your map special, blanced and good looking. And Thursday-: he had a great deal of this maps design, layout and visuals: cs_industrywest, de_morningstar, de_shogun, de_laguna, de_volare. So you really dont know what you are talking about.
Sad is the day when one finds himself beaten by this little noun:
<i><b>ignorance</b>
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
\Ig"no*rance\, n. [F., fr. L. ignorantia.] 1. The condition of being ignorant; the want of knowledge in general, or in relation to a particular subject; the state of being uneducated or uninformed.
Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven. --Shak.
2. (Theol.) A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have. --Book of Common Prayer</i>.
Zazi, good luck with your map. It's looking good, but could be improved in some very important areas. I hope in spite of how this thread turned out you picked up on a few things.
Marcos: Soccer Agents, financial advisors, property agents. They are there for advice, but noticed how they are not always right, in actual fact if you look at soccer agents there is a 1/10 chance they do good by their player. Second point for you my man Marcos, if ubehagelig was such a good advisor he would tell you if you are making a serious map to tone your map down on the wall_lab and go for something bit more suiting for the maps purpose.
ubehagelig: Nice ending note on your last post. Maybe Zazi's moral might not be too affected by the comments as of late, from us all.
Zazi: Keep going with the map, I look forward to playing a fully finished version too.
its Zazi here who should say if he likes or dislikes those comments. I do like ANY kind of critics as i think everything sayid about my maps helps me make it better. Even the "hey your lighting sucks" helps. At least it does for me, i then get into VHE and try to make it look cooler.
On the other side, when i get to the point i absolutly love a room, a corridor, etc... or the lighting from certain place of my map, i will not change it never although i get any kind of comments (this has never ocurred, LOL).
And again Zazi, work hard on your map and youll get an official.
First time I've read through this thread all the way through.
I think ubehagelig is right.
Zazi sent me a copy of widow to run around in, and despite some optimization issues he's working out presently, It is a very good looking map. The colors are original, subtle, and well placed, the lighting is fantastic, and the brushwork is really solid. It looks really, really good, and I can't say anything to the contrary.
But I have to say, that it doesn't offer a logical layout, doesn't tell a story, and frankly, it doesn't make me believe i'm in a space station or anything of the sort. It makes me believe I'm in a series of very pretty rooms.
Zazi, if your goal is to make a map that's very good looking, then I'm behind you 100 percent. Joe NS player probably wont notice anything other than the nice looking lighting and texturing. How many people point out the fact that Bast's lights can be shot out, or that the texturing on orgin is mind-numbingly repetitive? No-one. I've only seen one map that actually made me stop and look around in the middle of a game. I think that the original maps have made a good looking map the norm. We have to make it good looking to even be considered for official status, or recognition by our peers, and you've certainly done that, you've earned my respect.
Now, blow me away, inspire me, add something new to the mapping community. IF it doesn't work, you can take it out during playtest.
I know a lot of you guys are going to tell me to SUYF and contribute something to the community first. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=44657' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=4&t=44657</a>
You'll have to scroll to the 3rd page to see the pics though, it destroyed my web host.
ubehagelig, rip that muh apart.
BTW: New ideas in Caduceus: <ul> <li>Two ships docked together, with each ship having it's own realistic styles. <li>Hallways you can destroy with a welder. <li>Double node with one node needing to be welded into. Innaccessable to aliens otherwise. <li>Layout reflects the layout of the ships, use damage to areas to direct player flow and balance gameplay. </ul>
Oh dear this thread makes me sad. ubehagelig and ginsengavenger conducted themselves with nothing but honesty and maturity, and offered genuine ideas on how to improve this map. Sure, as some of you have pointed out, they didn't pin-point exactly what this map needs, that's not their job it's the mappers.
It was only when some of you people started throwing pointless and childish insults their way, that this thread got a little sidetracked. Yet people blame ube for this? If you feed laxatives to a cat, do you blame the cat for sh!ting all over the kitchen floor? I don't think so.
While bothg did it with much maturity, to be sure, it seems to me that it was done with much ignorance. Widow has been a work-in-progress for a <i>very</i> long time - since everyone here wants "<i>newness</i>" and "<i>more stimulating</i>" in the wake of the great maps that have been released lately. Around the release of 1.0, the focus on the official maps was beauty, or so it seems to me. Just look at Eclipse - I'm sure Uberhageling should have something to say about that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Since 2.0, the want of these "stimulating" maps has increased. Now, everybody wants something that hasn't been done before.
This can kill a good map
In condensed form, what I'm trying to say is that Widow is getting an unfair bias on account of the spasmodically wavering demands of the players.
Tell me honestly - was the 1.0X Eclipse any less fun to you because it made no damn sense? It sure wasn't to me... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is Zazi's plan for his map. He has a definite floorplan, and is most likely quite happy that he's finally finishing his map. If you want something that's not an "uninspired selection of random rooms connected by hallways," make it your damn self. And <b>no</b>, I don't care how good of an "<i>advisor</i>" Uberhageling is. By the same twisted logic, I could call <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=17547&hl=smart_bomb+style' target='_blank'>Smart_Bomb</a> an "<i>advisor</i>". <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Please do not tall us that "OMG!! The map makes n0 sense! Rebuild it!." Keep your comments centralized on small changes, and let Zazi (<i>*edit* WHY OH WHY did I say "marcos"?</i>) figure out the way he wants his map to turn out - don't try to change the fundamental form, or the map will suffer. Trust me.
<!--QuoteBegin--Dubbilex+Sep 20 2003, 08:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Sep 20 2003, 08:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> While bothg did it with much maturity, to be sure, it seems to me that it was done with much ignorance. Widow has been a work-in-progress for a <i>very</i> long time - since everyone here wants "<i>newness</i>" and "<i>more stimulating</i>" in the wake of the great maps that have been released lately. Around the release of 1.0, the focus on the official maps was beauty, or so it seems to me. Just look at Eclipse - I'm sure Uberhageling should have something to say about that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Since 2.0, the want of these "stimulating" maps has increased. Now, everybody wants something that hasn't been done before.
This can kill a good map
In condensed form, what I'm trying to say is that Widow is getting an unfair bias on account of the spasmodically wavering demands of the players.
Tell me honestly - was the 1.0X Eclipse any less fun to you because it made no damn sense? It sure wasn't to me... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is Zazi's plan for his map. He has a definite floorplan, and is most likely quite happy that he's finally finishing his map. If you want something that's not an "uninspired selection of random rooms connected by hallways," make it your damn self. And <b>no</b>, I don't care how good of an "<i>advisor</i>" Uberhageling is. By the same twisted logic, I could call <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=17547&hl=smart_bomb+style' target='_blank'>Smart_Bomb</a> an "<i>advisor</i>". <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Please do not tall us that "OMG!! The map makes n0 sense! Rebuild it!." Keep your comments centralized on small changes, and let Marcos figure out the way he wants his map to turn out - don't try to change the fundamental form, or the map will suffer. Trust me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Eliquently(sp) said.
Zazi, keep at it, I'll sure play this when it goes release. It is a pretty map, and you're showing quite a bit of skill making it. Don't be discouraged.
Yea, keep it up Zazi <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
And Thursday-: he had a great deal of this maps design, layout and visuals: cs_industrywest, de_morningstar, de_shogun, de_laguna, de_volare. So you really dont know what you are talking about.
<i><b>ignorance</b>
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
\Ig"no*rance\, n. [F., fr. L. ignorantia.] 1. The condition of being ignorant; the want of knowledge in general, or in relation to a particular subject; the state of being uneducated or uninformed.
Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven. --Shak.
2. (Theol.) A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have. --Book of Common Prayer</i>.
Zazi, good luck with your map. It's looking good, but could be improved in some very important areas. I hope in spite of how this thread turned out you picked up on a few things.
Second point for you my man Marcos, if ubehagelig was such a good advisor he would tell you if you are making a serious map to tone your map down on the wall_lab and go for something bit more suiting for the maps purpose.
ubehagelig: Nice ending note on your last post. Maybe Zazi's moral might not be too affected by the comments as of late, from us all.
Zazi: Keep going with the map, I look forward to playing a fully finished version too.
On the other side, when i get to the point i absolutly love a room, a corridor, etc... or the lighting from certain place of my map, i will not change it never although i get any kind of comments (this has never ocurred, LOL).
And again Zazi, work hard on your map and youll get an official.
I think ubehagelig is right.
Zazi sent me a copy of widow to run around in, and despite some optimization issues he's working out presently, It is a very good looking map. The colors are original, subtle, and well placed, the lighting is fantastic, and the brushwork is really solid. It looks really, really good, and I can't say anything to the contrary.
But I have to say, that it doesn't offer a logical layout, doesn't tell a story, and frankly, it doesn't make me believe i'm in a space station or anything of the sort. It makes me believe I'm in a series of very pretty rooms.
Zazi, if your goal is to make a map that's very good looking, then I'm behind you 100 percent. Joe NS player probably wont notice anything other than the nice looking lighting and texturing. How many people point out the fact that Bast's lights can be shot out, or that the texturing on orgin is mind-numbingly repetitive? No-one. I've only seen one map that actually made me stop and look around in the middle of a game. I think that the original maps have made a good looking map the norm. We have to make it good looking to even be considered for official status, or recognition by our peers, and you've certainly done that, you've earned my respect.
Now, blow me away, inspire me, add something new to the mapping community. IF it doesn't work, you can take it out during playtest.
I know a lot of you guys are going to tell me to SUYF and contribute something to the community first.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=44657' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=4&t=44657</a>
You'll have to scroll to the 3rd page to see the pics though, it destroyed my web host.
ubehagelig, rip that muh apart.
BTW: New ideas in Caduceus:
<ul>
<li>Two ships docked together, with each ship having it's own realistic styles.
<li>Hallways you can destroy with a welder.
<li>Double node with one node needing to be welded into. Innaccessable to aliens otherwise.
<li>Layout reflects the layout of the ships, use damage to areas to direct player flow and balance gameplay.
</ul>
It was only when some of you people started throwing pointless and childish insults their way, that this thread got a little sidetracked. Yet people blame ube for this? If you feed laxatives to a cat, do you blame the cat for sh!ting all over the kitchen floor? I don't think so.
This can kill a good map
In condensed form, what I'm trying to say is that Widow is getting an unfair bias on account of the spasmodically wavering demands of the players.
Tell me honestly - was the 1.0X Eclipse any less fun to you because it made no damn sense? It sure wasn't to me... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is Zazi's plan for his map. He has a definite floorplan, and is most likely quite happy that he's finally finishing his map. If you want something that's not an "uninspired selection of random rooms connected by hallways," make it your damn self. And <b>no</b>, I don't care how good of an "<i>advisor</i>" Uberhageling is. By the same twisted logic, I could call <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=17547&hl=smart_bomb+style' target='_blank'>Smart_Bomb</a> an "<i>advisor</i>". <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Please do not tall us that "OMG!! The map makes n0 sense! Rebuild it!." Keep your comments centralized on small changes, and let Zazi (<i>*edit* WHY OH WHY did I say "marcos"?</i>) figure out the way he wants his map to turn out - don't try to change the fundamental form, or the map will suffer. Trust me.
This can kill a good map
In condensed form, what I'm trying to say is that Widow is getting an unfair bias on account of the spasmodically wavering demands of the players.
Tell me honestly - was the 1.0X Eclipse any less fun to you because it made no damn sense? It sure wasn't to me... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is Zazi's plan for his map. He has a definite floorplan, and is most likely quite happy that he's finally finishing his map. If you want something that's not an "uninspired selection of random rooms connected by hallways," make it your damn self. And <b>no</b>, I don't care how good of an "<i>advisor</i>" Uberhageling is. By the same twisted logic, I could call <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=17547&hl=smart_bomb+style' target='_blank'>Smart_Bomb</a> an "<i>advisor</i>". <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Please do not tall us that "OMG!! The map makes n0 sense! Rebuild it!." Keep your comments centralized on small changes, and let Marcos figure out the way he wants his map to turn out - don't try to change the fundamental form, or the map will suffer. Trust me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eliquently(sp) said.
Zazi, keep at it, I'll sure play this when it goes release. It is a pretty map, and you're showing quite a bit of skill making it. Don't be discouraged.