Who Forgot The Ammo?
Harry_S_Truman
Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9568Members
Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9568Members
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<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>*using you as bait.</span>
[edit] why did I even bother with this post?
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>*using you as bait.</span>
[edit] why did I even bother with this post? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL, good point.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>*using you as bait.</span>
[edit] why did I even bother with this post? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And this is relevent how?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I just want to be given a full clip of ammo before TSA command beams me into a alien infested space station. Is that too much to ask? Filling your weapons should be the LAST thing you need to think about when coming on board. I don't see a problem with this and it shouldn't be required to "hump the armory" everytime you beam in. It would be a God send for commanders!
[edit] + the 30 pistol bullets [/edit]
[edit] + the 30 pistol bullets [/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"re-arming" Which GL's, HMG's and Shotties do all the time, not to mention "giving out new weapons". There's still a purpose to the armory, just not a repetitive and stupid one. No reason TSA command wouldn't send a trooper on board without a full clip for his LMG and no one give me this "lack of money/supply" crap either. They make this stuff from nanites, no lack of materials.
You spawn with a loaded gun (50 bullets AKA a full clip) & a spare clip (another 50 bullets AKA a full clip).
First off learn the correct terminology for what you want to discuss.
Second its called balancing. You'd best learn to live with it.
I just grab an extra clip for my rifle and pistol and get on with it; I'd rather have less ammo and more manouverability than have full ammo and be dead <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never heard of it, where did you read it.
You are also trying to bring realism into what is most likely a balance issue. And realism must always take a backseat to game balance. What was mentioned earlier is right, marines spawning in with full clips would unbalance the game.
I thought I saw it in either S&I or the marine tactics thingy but I just had a look and didn't see it.
I can't have imagined it o.O
Soz bout the rambling guys, just get annoyed with noobs humpign the armoury when you will probably shoot off 50-100 bullets then get eaten.
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Never heard of it, where did you read it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104stats.htm' target='_blank'>This site</a> shows how more ammo will slow you down (at the bottom of the page). It appears to be made for 1.04, but it is probably still valid.
ps: This page also shows how much damage is done by each weapon and how many shots to kill something. However, it is no longer valid in many cases (it was for 1.04).
edit: I think the reduced number of starting bullets is necessary for balance. Starting with full ammo would make initial rushes easier (as someone else already said), and the only positive thing it would accomplish is reducing armory humping.
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For RuSh Of PeONs.
The pistol has 10 bullets, each doing 20, 22, 24 or 26 damage, for a total of from 200 to 260 damage.
A basic skulk has effectively 108 hp. So it takes, 6, 5, 5 or 5 pistol hits to kill it.
A carapaced skulk has 155 hp. So it takes 8, 8, 7 or 6 pistol hits to kill it.
So a L0 pistol (200hp) can't even kill 2 BASIC skulks, even if aimed perfectly.
And, a LMG has 50 bullets, each doing 10, 11, 12 or 13 damage, for a total of from 500 to 650 damage.
A basic fade has effectively 358 hp. So it takes 36, 33, 30 or 28 LMG hits to kill it.
A carapaced fade has 550 hp. So it takes 55, 50, 46 or 43 LMG hits to kill it.
So only a L0-LMG cannot kill a L3-Carapace-Fade in one clip.
Also, fresh spawned marines aren't designed to kill upgraded mid-game enemies in one clip.
I usually finish off an LMG clip, switch right over to pistol and finish a clip, and then switch to knife and start playing with 'em. When I try to reload, I invariably end up getting killed before I can do much good with the bullets, but I'll sometimes get off the lucky knife kill.
You are also trying to bring realism into what is most likely a balance issue. And realism must always take a backseat to game balance. What was mentioned earlier is right, marines spawning in with full clips would unbalance the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Realism with "space marines" and slimey aliens made up with bacteria?
I just want a full ammo loadout of my LMG when I go on board, nothing to do with realism, everything to do with tactical flexibility of your troops. The commanders scream themselves hoarse telling marines to NOT hump the armory. 50+50, with the LMG's rate of fire, is a worthless configuration. At the very least 50+150 should be the norm. Still seeing TONS of alien wins out there, so who says this couldn't be a balancing point?
Balance for who? The aliens?
It's almost suicide, acutally quite often it is...I will kill myself if I leave base early and run out of ammo rather than give the aliens RFK, to run out of the base early with 100 rounds of ammo. Full ammo loadout would slow down that inital alien RT rush that the marines have a hard time coping with. I think this would be MORE of a balance issue than most of you would agree to.
A clip is something that loads a magazine, and a magazine is something that holds bullets for a gun to fire.
i.e. the tube on the bottom of the barrel of a 12 gauge is a magazine, as is the metal box of bullets you cram into the handle of a standard automatic pistol. Clips are hardly used anymore, as most military weapons have detachable magazines and hunters don't need to reload fast.
I guess most people call the magazine a clip because it is easier and faster to say and write, how about "mag" for short.
Anyway on topic, I support giving the marines more mags to start with, since from what I have seen the marines seem underpowered in the very early game, but awesome once they have heavy weapons. It will also reduce the armory humping which is so very annoying.
Perhaps the dev team could put up a poll to see what everyone thinks?
But an alien doesn't NEED these to be combat effective. I very often don't upgrade because I'm saving my ammo for a higher evolution. This is equivlent to a marine getting an HMG or HA not spawning with more ammo. The alien equivlent would be when you spawn as a skulk you start with 1/10 of your adenaline. Wouldn't it be fun to spawn in a hive that is under attack and only be able to do 4 bites and then you have to rest.
This has nothing to do with realism or story line. This has to do with the tactial flexibility of the Marines when they come "on-station". By definition this is zero. A marine with an LMG with only 100 rounds of ammuntion is not worth anything. He MUST hump the armory so he can have some kind of tactial worth in the field. Skulks do not have to do this, they can just spawn and run from the hive.
The arguement about ranged vs. melee weapons is worthless, as marines can't run on walls and hang on the ceilings which can all but negate the "ranged" superiorty aspect.
I agree that perhaps a full load out is not nessecary, as I often leave the base at 50+150.
To add insult to injury, each click of the armory only adds 25 rounds!!!!! Which means for me to be somewhat sufficent to go into the field I have to wait for 6 clicks of the armory. Why doesn't each click give you a clip? (By the way, you ARE being nitpicky, no one cares about the diffence between clip and magazine and surly everyone understands the conversation) Again, I find this a messed up part of the game which I think IS a balance issue.
Thus marines in ns spawn with only an essential ammount of ammo, 2 clips for each gun, counting one already loaded. True a REAL marine would carry a bit more than two clips, but not five, he'd be unable to walk then. Heck if you ask this question why not apply it to all mods! Why don't those CTs in CS spawn with full amm, and why onyl a pistol, theyshould all get free MP5s! Why even have ammo at all, lets just have infinit ammo so we never have to reload, and watch one marine kill 5 onos and a hive without having to release the trigger once!
If you can't be bothered to click on the armory 4 times, then your just plain lazy.
Thank you and good day.
If you had the extra ammo, that time you load up on some ammo (equivalent to alien getting cara or some upgrade) is the balancing issue. If you think about it, from mid to late game the difference between the peons is greater and greater.
Skulks on 3 hives still spawn with 75/20 whereas marines on lvl3 armour spawn with 100/110, thats most of the way to HA! lvl0 HA is like 190? or something. Weapon wise its similar.
If you had the extra ammo, that time you load up on some ammo (equivalent to alien getting cara or some upgrade) is the balancing issue. If you think about it, from mid to late game the difference between the peons is greater and greater.
Skulks on 3 hives still spawn with 75/20 whereas marines on lvl3 armour spawn with 100/110, thats most of the way to HA! lvl0 HA is like 190? or something. Weapon wise its similar. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mid game, 110 armor is worthless against spores, slashes and gores.....skulks are no longer the main enemy. Onos, Fades and Lerks are are all over the place and one clip can't even kill a gorge anymore. Still a balance issue but in favor of the aliens NOT the Marines. Time wasted loading ammo is time wasted, it only gives an advantage to the Aliens that they DON'T need at that point.