Saddam's Pompous Idiocy
Hawkeye
Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1855Members
Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1855Members
<a href='http://www.msnbc.com/news/967946.asp?vts=091720031549' target='_blank'>Saddam's pompous idiocy</a>
Read this article and tell me how you feel. Not to start a flame war, but who does he think he's kidding? Saddam is no where near the scene of the crime or no where near leader of Iraq, and he is commanding all the little pawns to do his bidding. Americans greatly outnumber any Iraqi resistance, yet he encourages Iraqis to grab guns and get themselves killed. Since when has Saddam Hussein ever cared about the Iraqi people? It was evident before and it was evident now that he never cared. I think it is safe to say that if you build torture chambers in your palace, you must not care a great deal about the people you torture.
In this case, he tortured anyone that clearly hated him. I read this article and it makes me want to throw up out of disgust. Yes, I am American, but I state my position perfectly clear that I am against fighting of any kind. Americans occupy Iraqi soil. They are trying to rebuild Iraq. JUST LET THEM! The stupidest thing an Iraqi can think is that by strapping a bomb to his chest and killing himself, he will be better off than he was before. They are assisting little children in doing this, I should add. While Hussein was in power, he was sure to give a hefty amount of money as "thanks" to the familes of those who killed himself kamikazing the enemy.
I want Saddam's head on a platter, and I want the fighting to end. I don't think this is an unreasonable request. Fighting gets nothing accomplished. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->War doesn't determine who is right, but who is left. -Churchhill<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read this article and tell me how you feel. Not to start a flame war, but who does he think he's kidding? Saddam is no where near the scene of the crime or no where near leader of Iraq, and he is commanding all the little pawns to do his bidding. Americans greatly outnumber any Iraqi resistance, yet he encourages Iraqis to grab guns and get themselves killed. Since when has Saddam Hussein ever cared about the Iraqi people? It was evident before and it was evident now that he never cared. I think it is safe to say that if you build torture chambers in your palace, you must not care a great deal about the people you torture.
In this case, he tortured anyone that clearly hated him. I read this article and it makes me want to throw up out of disgust. Yes, I am American, but I state my position perfectly clear that I am against fighting of any kind. Americans occupy Iraqi soil. They are trying to rebuild Iraq. JUST LET THEM! The stupidest thing an Iraqi can think is that by strapping a bomb to his chest and killing himself, he will be better off than he was before. They are assisting little children in doing this, I should add. While Hussein was in power, he was sure to give a hefty amount of money as "thanks" to the familes of those who killed himself kamikazing the enemy.
I want Saddam's head on a platter, and I want the fighting to end. I don't think this is an unreasonable request. Fighting gets nothing accomplished. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->War doesn't determine who is right, but who is left. -Churchhill<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Saddam is no where near the scene of the crime or no where near leader of Iraq, and he is commanding all the little pawns to do his bidding. Americans greatly outnumber any Iraqi resistance, yet he encourages Iraqis to grab guns and get themselves killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds almost like what Bush is doing, though. Bush is no where near the action and he's commanding all our soldiers to go off and get killed as well. It brings to mind the joke amongst the soldiers that goes, 'Yeah, we've got representation from all groups -- asians, hispanics, blacks, except one, the sons of Bush's administrators.'
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since when has Saddam Hussein ever cared about the Iraqi people? It was evident before and it was evident now that he never cared. I think it is safe to say that if you build torture chambers in your palace, you must not care a great deal about the people you torture.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when have we cared that he didn't care about the Iraqi people? We were the ones who put him in power, and we continued to give him weapons despite knowing that he was using illegal nerve agents on his own countrymen (The Kurds). That's not really a fair judgement to make, considering we were the ones that gave him the capability to do so in the first place.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Americans occupy Iraqi soil. They are trying to rebuild Iraq. JUST LET THEM!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read the thread on the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=46568' target='_blank'>eighty-seven billion dollars</a> that are going into the rebuilding. That should help you understand why the Iraqis are having problems with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I want the fighting to end<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It takes two sides to prolong a fight. Maybe instead of condemning the Iraqis for trying to *defend their homeland*, perhaps some thinking needs to be done about Bush's invasion in the first place.
Keep in mind that just because Saddam's saying something doesn't mean that Iraqi's are going to automatically go and do it like blind sheep. As you said, he treats his own people like crap. So obviously, there must be a greater motive for these people to do things like that than just 'Oh, well Saddam told me so.'
On the other hand, people are pretty easily affected by what they hear, especially in the face of suffering. Saddam took all the holes that we allowed through the economic sanctions and used it to live high himself, instead of give it to the people where it was supposed to go. Then he said that it was the embargo that the US had placed that was causing everyone to be dying of hunger, causing people to hate the US.
Similarly, Bush's administration affected us to go along with the war, because not doing so would be 'unpatriotic' and he was doing it to 'fight terror'. And who doesn't want to fight terror? However, this war had nothing to do with terror, really. Read that thread above if you want to know why. On that note, please don't try to base your opinions on reading just one article. If you want a full, objective view on what's going on, don't just read mainstream media and make your judgements -- they are extremely biased. Read other sources (particularly, from other countries, like the UK Guardian, where it's not being affected by the American Government) and form your opinions from the combination of your sources. After all, if you claim that Saddam's brainwashing his countrymen with simple tapes played over a radio, could you not also have to agree that we're being brainwashed by the incessant mainstream media drones that go on in our country?
Rhuadin
Makes you question Bush.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Saddam is no where near the scene of the crime or no where near leader of Iraq, and he is commanding all the little pawns to do his bidding. Americans greatly outnumber any Iraqi resistance, yet he encourages Iraqis to grab guns and get themselves killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds almost like what Bush is doing, though. Bush is no where near the action and he's commanding all our soldiers to go off and get killed as well. It brings to mind the joke amongst the soldiers that goes, 'Yeah, we've got representation from all groups -- asians, hispanics, blacks, except one, the sons of Bush's administrators.'
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since when has Saddam Hussein ever cared about the Iraqi people? It was evident before and it was evident now that he never cared. I think it is safe to say that if you build torture chambers in your palace, you must not care a great deal about the people you torture.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when have we cared that he didn't care about the Iraqi people? We were the ones who put him in power, and we continued to give him weapons despite knowing that he was using illegal nerve agents on his own countrymen (The Kurds). That's not really a fair judgement to make, considering we were the ones that gave him the capability to do so in the first place.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Americans occupy Iraqi soil. They are trying to rebuild Iraq. JUST LET THEM!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read the thread on the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=46568' target='_blank'>eighty-seven billion dollars</a> that are going into the rebuilding. That should help you understand why the Iraqis are having problems with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I want the fighting to end<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It takes two sides to prolong a fight. Maybe instead of condemning the Iraqis for trying to *defend their homeland*, perhaps some thinking needs to be done about Bush's invasion in the first place.
Keep in mind that just because Saddam's saying something doesn't mean that Iraqi's are going to automatically go and do it like blind sheep. As you said, he treats his own people like crap. So obviously, there must be a greater motive for these people to do things like that than just 'Oh, well Saddam told me so.'
On the other hand, people are pretty easily affected by what they hear, especially in the face of suffering. Saddam took all the holes that we allowed through the economic sanctions and used it to live high himself, instead of give it to the people where it was supposed to go. Then he said that it was the embargo that the US had placed that was causing everyone to be dying of hunger, causing people to hate the US.
Similarly, Bush's administration affected us to go along with the war, because not doing so would be 'unpatriotic' and he was doing it to 'fight terror'. And who doesn't want to fight terror? However, this war had nothing to do with terror, really. Read that thread above if you want to know why. On that note, please don't try to base your opinions on reading just one article. If you want a full, objective view on what's going on, don't just read mainstream media and make your judgements -- they are extremely biased. Read other sources (particularly, from other countries, like the UK Guardian, where it's not being affected by the American Government) and form your opinions from the combination of your sources. After all, if you claim that Saddam's brainwashing his countrymen with simple tapes played over a radio, could you not also have to agree that we're being brainwashed by the incessant mainstream media drones that go on in our country?
Rhuadin <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. The entire Iraqi thing was a scapegoat. WMD My arse, the only WMD around here is our imperialism
I don't say I disagree with what you said, but you shouldn't be able to site evidence I gave about how horrible Hussein is and turn it against me about how bad Bush is. Heck, I never said a word about Bush. There is nothing to disprove unless it is how great Hussein is.
Imperialism?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Are we ANNEXING Iraq?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
[SARCASM]
Ok, what well we name the 51st state.
hmmm
Iraq, the Really Contraversial State.
Iraq, the State that's really far away.
Iraq, the State that's surrounded by many unfriendly middle eastern countries.
[/SARCASM]
Imperialism?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Are we ANNEXING Iraq?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
[SARCASM]
Ok, what well we name the 51st state.
hmmm
Iraq, the Really Contraversial State.
Iraq, the State that's really far away.
Iraq, the State that's surrounded by many unfriendly middle eastern countries.
[/SARCASM] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its ok, many of the sheep don't get it
Saddam Hussein is the evil dictator he is (or was) today *because* we let, encouraged, and funded him.
rhuadin
Saddam Hussians butchery (set up by us) can be completely justified by merely letting it continue because get this - we gave him the power.
We all make mistakes, and then sometimes we try to rectify them. How dare we, where do we get the gall to make mistakes and try and rectify them? How dare we attempt to give the Iraqi's a chance?
Why couldnt we just go legit and continue to embargo them to hell while Saddam laughs it up in his palaces and blames it on the Americans?
When did the USA lose it way? How did you people let this happen to your country?
Oh, and I read the 87 Billion dollars thread, and now I understand perfectly why the Iraqi's are bombing their own power lines. Have I missed something?
I think we can safely say this, so it has no meaning to say America put Saddam in power in the first place. It was a mistake then, so how can correcting a mistake be a mistake?
The US is <i>still</i> selling arms to countries that transgress human rights.
In fact, the US is currently the leading supplier of arms to countries without human rights.
All of the last wars in this decade (well, the 90s) have been fought with countries that the US has <i>previously</i> sold arms to, and we never cared about the fact that we knew the countries had no human rights.
If we really cared about human rights, <i>we'd stop selling weapons to those countries!</i>
I agree that Saddam is a horrible dictator. I agree that the world would be better off with him dead. I don't agree with how we're doing it, how the administration lied to the country to get us to support the war, and how we're resolving it.
Personally, I think we make 'mistakes' so that the government can have the pleasure of cleaning them up later. At the price of our soldiers' lives and our tax money.
Rhuadin
I think they should stop supplying arms to countries without human rights too. And I dont believe the any Western Government takes pleasure in attacking other countries, nor in their own soldiers bodycount. They do what they deem as in the best interest of themselves.
Does the US goverment actually supply arms to these countries, or do they merely allow munitions corporations to do so?
I think they should stop supplying arms to countries without human rights too. And I dont believe the any Western Government takes pleasure in attacking other countries, nor in their own soldiers bodycount. They do what they deem as in the best interest of themselves.
Does the US goverment actually supply arms to these countries, or do they merely allow munitions corporations to do so? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Waited until he actually did something worthy of destroying their nation, then wasting billions of dollars rebuilding in the sake of "peace" Speaking of money, I've got books to buy for class, but my financial aid got pwnt! OH! Thank god that tiny-arse country won't maybe possbily sneeze on us. Its worth my lack of...education
Eheheheh you expect the govt to pay for your books eh... at least you are consistent in your communist ideals.
Still, I find it a bit rich that we have money, power, extreme military capabilities, yet their are millions of people suffering under despots and we do nothing. The liberal stance of "oh the poor iraqis getting bombed by the Americans" is rife with hypocracy. You arent out there protesting about Mugabe. You werent screaming when Saddam gassed kurds. I find it laughable that the American government claims it cares about the Iraqi people too, but I laugh just as hard at the peace protestors.
Neither side gives a sod about the civilians, but it so happens that in this situation the Americans have done something which at least gives the Iraqi's a CHANCE. Tell me exactly what did peace protesting actually do for the Iraqi's? Even if it had worked and the Americans had backed down? The Iraqi people would still be screwed.
The cries of the left are not for the mercy of the Iraqi people, they are rantings against the US current administration. You simply wish to leave them there to rot.
I don't understand where you got this from. There are people protesting Mugabe. There were people who screamed when Saddam gassed the Kurds. You may not hear about it because the mainstream media chooses not to cover it.
To address your question of 'What do you propose we should've done with Saddam?' I agree that we needed to kick him out. When I said that I didn't like how we were doing it, I meant that I didn't like how we were <i>disrespecting</i> the memory of the 3000 people killed in 9/11 by using them as an <i>excuse</i> to invade a country that had absolutely nothing to do with it.
And of course we care about the civilians. That's why we did scream when the Kurds got gassed. That's why we dislike providing (like, via military aid, not just due to negligence) weapons to countries without human rights. That's why we want the Iraqi industrial firms to receive the money and resources to rebuild Iraq, not American firms.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Tell me exactly what did peace protesting actually do for the Iraqi's? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What it was supposed to have done was prevent us from giving them weapons, given their dictator's poor use of his power, in the first place.
Rhuadin
Eheheheh you expect the govt to pay for your books eh... at least you are consistent in your communist ideals.
Still, I find it a bit rich that we have money, power, extreme military capabilities, yet their are millions of people suffering under despots and we do nothing. The liberal stance of "oh the poor iraqis getting bombed by the Americans" is rife with hypocracy. You arent out there protesting about Mugabe. You werent screaming when Saddam gassed kurds. I find it laughable that the American government claims it cares about the Iraqi people too, but I laugh just as hard at the peace protestors.
Neither side gives a sod about the civilians, but it so happens that in this situation the Americans have done something which at least gives the Iraqi's a CHANCE. Tell me exactly what did peace protesting actually do for the Iraqi's? Even if it had worked and the Americans had backed down? The Iraqi people would still be screwed.
The cries of the left are not for the mercy of the Iraqi people, they are rantings against the US current administration. You simply wish to leave them there to rot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I expect the government to take care of its people, exactly why I think that If I have to better myself with education in order to get anywhere in this world then they should help me out. And what was that little rip on "my communist ideals" Man, with a statement like that, you are a typical american, that was real ignorant. Nobody can justify why its OK for us to kill them off, while we have many many kids in poverty here. Can't we take care of our own people first?
Please don't generalize all typical Americans as "ignorant". The popular belief is that America is one stupid ignorant nation because the media decides to focus on the one person they find on the street that doesn't know the capital of France. "This typical American didn't even know that Pacific Ocean was on the west coast of America." It's really annoying that they have to call them "typical" when they are anything but. They are the bottom tier, the people getting F's in school, destined to work at McDonalds for 10 years. If anything,your statement (not you) was more "ignorant" than Marine01's statement.
I dont think that people are protesting about Mugabe. I dont see thousands in the streets, and I'm sure that if there were there would be media coverage. There are a few hardcore peace protestors, and then there are the general mass of people that leapt upon the Anti-Iraqi bandwagon. Same reason that after the War was declared over, the polls showed more people thought it was good then bad.
And I too agree that its a little strange to link 9/11 with Saddam Hussian. Americans as a people might claim to care about Kurds, and I'm sure some of them do, but as a Government? No. I am completely convinced that no government really cares about the sufferings of other nations peoples. It might act if it sees any benefit for itself, but it will never go out of its way to help other peoples. The Kurds were gassed, and no one lifted a finger. Sanctions? Just more fuel to blame on the Americans.
I'm talking about the peace protesting immediately before the war. You know, millions in the street all over the world protesting for peace. They weren't asking the US to stop selling weapons to the Iraqi's, they just didnt want them to invade.
Please don't generalize all typical Americans as "ignorant". The popular belief is that America is one stupid ignorant nation because the media decides to focus on the one person they find on the street that doesn't know the capital of France. "This typical American didn't even know that Pacific Ocean was on the west coast of America." It's really annoying that they have to call them "typical" when they are anything but. They are the bottom tier, the people getting F's in school, destined to work at McDonalds for 10 years. If anything,your statement (not you) was more "ignorant" than Marine01's statement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason I made that generalization is because of the media, because they are the ignorant ones, and where else can americans get our news? That was my point, sry if it came off offensive :/
Marine01: Not a problem
its far more relevant that they should protest against bush.
and yeah, im sure there are guys out there voicing that mugabe is a bad guy, i mean, would we even be name dropping him if we didnt know he ws a crook? eh?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, it wasn't offensive, I was just sick of people calling all Americans ignorant, or calling igorant Americans "typical" or "the mainstay".
Yea, it's a pity we have such bad media coverage over here, that's why sattelite T.V. and the internet, is so crucial.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh.. yeeeeeeeeaaaaaa..
I do not see the invasion of Iraq as imperialism, We aren't staying there. Once the New Iraqi Government is on it's feet, we are gone.
Now this is where I fail to see this as "imperialistic." The New Iraqi government will of course, run on it's own. Now.. Just because the government will idealy be pro-american, doesn't mean we will have absolute control of them. Believing that is well.. in a word.. silly.
Myself, I'm not the biggest advocate of Bush. But, I do not bash him. He has my support, he has a very difficult job, running a country like the US isn't an easy task. There are somethings I think he could have done better, such as preparing for postwar, and even pre-war in the UN. I believe he could have discussed this a little better with the UN, and actually gotten support from more countries. For one, Germany for sure would have been on board. I've talked to members of the German Bundeswehr, and they wanted to go into Iraq and help the UK and US personal in there. Various units of the KSK (Kommando SpezialKraefte) have started riots and been suspended, due to the fact that the German government would not send in any forces. So in a nutshell, Yes Bush has made a couple mistakes, but he is under a lot of pressure.
Next time, becareful who you refer to as various livestock..
No matter what, the American government was trying to pull strings and play Saddam like a puppet. Now do you REALLY think that the American administration won't set up what they want in Iraq? that they won't take the oil that's right next to them? THey may try to do it covertly, but it will still be done.
A country is ALWAYS looking out for it's own interests. That's why you were called a sheep, cause you follow the news blindly.
I don't mean to sound anti-American, but the USA is the most prominent and powerful country at this time in this world, and that means that you'll get more attention than any other country. I do agree that Bush has a tough job, but when most of the world's governments look on in distate at what you are doing, you think that he would change, but he doesn't. It's like he stated right out, "I'm doing what's best for me and my country, and I'll beat you down if you stand in my way."
Back on topic, Saddam is a pompous idiot, but I think that's because power got to his head. Like power always does.
I would have gone in because Saddam is an evil man, the things he has done should only be judged by one being. And it ain't us.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"I'm doing what's best for me and my country, and I'll beat you down if you stand in my way."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Every and any nation that had the US power would do that. Maybe they would be smart enough not to say it, but thats exactly what they would do.
And Melatonin: I know people are complaining about Mugabe, and thats great. But not in their thousands in Germany and France. Two nations who knew that they werent going to support the Iraq war, but decided to complain about the Americans killing poor Iraqi civilians. No peace protestor can honestly be out in the streets claiming they are "doing it for the innocents in country x".
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If anything, the news makes America seem like a tyranical dictatorship trying to take over the world. I never follow the news blindly but unfourtunantly most of America does, too many trust that the media is "Fair and Balanced" (hehe, bring it on FOX) and that they know best, which is VERY false. They've fooled all Americans into a.) Believe that Iraq was the worst dictatorship since Hitler and the Nazis (yes I know he was a Fascist, not a dictator) and b.) Now that Bush's popularity is down, have fooled us into thinking that NO progress is being made in Iraq. Both are false.
It's the world we live in and I've become use to it, that's why I thank God, or whoever watches over us, for the internet, NS, and political debate all day long. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would have gone in because Saddam is an evil man, the things he has done should only be judged by one being. And it ain't us. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That wasn't the discussion, the discussion was on american imperialism. Alluding to God won't help you in a discussion. If there is a God, he/she/it won't come down here and prove you right.( this thread has gone horribly off-topic, cause now it's teh american imperialism thread)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Every and any nation that had the US power would do that. Maybe they would be smart enough not to say it, but thats exactly what they would do.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but people like to live in thier idealistic world, where governments don't do these kind of things. Call teh anti-americans the rebels against the superpower. No-one likes the superpower who abuses thier power. It affects the world when they do things, which is why the rest of the world cares about this.
For example, if you lived in a heirarchical society, and the nobles and king suddenly decided to tax you for everything your worth, or made you all slaves, or decided that they'd just go and kill someone who they didn't like, wouldn't you rebel? That's how things like the magna carta got created.
The americans are doing exactly the same thing. They're stepping all over everyone in thier own best interests, and the world doesn't like it.
EDIT:: yes saddam could be what you call 'evil', but that still doesn't negate the fact that the US is doing things alone and for themselves. When the Ends aren't justified, how can the Means be?
And I cant see the US falling down softly. Its big, and when it comes down, its going to come down hard. And that wont be a good thing for ANY of us Western nations.