The Inquisition
kida
Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">torture, faith, reason, and such</div> *Beware, there is some description of torture in the following material.*
As of right now in social studies at school, I am learning about the middle ages, the scientific revolution, absolutism, the black plague, and such. Very interesting stuff I have to say, especially when your teacher is quite enthusiastic about it. He even told us stories about how he became a teacher. His old teacher use to scare the shiznit out of people, when they were sleeping, by wapping a ruler so hard on their desk that it would shatter. One girl **** her pants. The other time, the same girl was carrying a bucket full of urine for a biology experiement, and she ran to her class, because she was late, then tripped and the bucket hit a gas vent, exploding all over the students. She soon left the school after that.
Anways, on topic.
It can be said that religion is probably responsible for the most deaths in the world. At a time in the world, where faith took over reason, and people were taken advantage by people, who could read and write, such as priests, nobles, and the such, uneducated people would look up to the "wiser" ones and believe what spewed out of their writings and mouths. The church was the most powerful institution, because it was believed that God's will allowed it to. As such, popes were often corrupt, people were always vying for papacy, and one, who was truly spiritual would be observed by the intelligent wicked and quickly plotted against for a quick exit. The belief that the church was at the top of the ladder was instilled in all people's minds and even kings. Not until later, would kings and monarchy overrule the church, but still, the church was powerful. So the point being, the church was extremely powerful, took advantage of it's so called spiritual reign over everything, and was responsible for so many idiotic acts such as the crusades and inquisition.
Now to get on with the meats of the discussion.
So the inquisition was officially started by by Pope Innocent III in order to stop heresy, but mostly, because the odd groups here and there would prove threatful to the church's power. During the years before Reformation, so many people were killed under painful methods of torture. It got worse and worse, into the reformation and afterwards until people got into the idea of humanism and found that reason, such as the greeks had found out, was useful into finding the truth of things. To name such people who used logic, experiementation, observation, and conclusion, are people like Galileo and Capernicus.
Anways, people during the inquisition were brutally tortured, people were often accused of being a witch and such. The simple acusation would often get them interviewed by the inquisitors or whoever was doing the trials. It was thought that in order for the accused to be executed, they had to confess. They would torture them very cruely to wring out confessions. The torturer would often explain to them what he was about to do. The tortures got worse and worse and once the accused confessed, they would also be torured on the way to the gallows, with their body parts nailed to the gallows and such.
For example: women's breasts were ripped off with fiery-hot pincers and were forced into the victims mouth. People were also forced to drink coals, and hot silt. Another gruesome torture, people were often hooked beneath the spinal colum with a giant hoock and left dangling. People were skinned alive. Some were amputated and forced to eat their own amputated parts. Thumbscrews were designed to screw into your thumbs, forcing blood to gush out. Umm, people were often strapped onto a giant wheel and rolled down a steep and edgy cliff. They use to use a contraption called a pear that was designed to enter the **** or rectum, it was expanded to the point of ripping in the tissue, and the spikes at the end were often used to rip out the cervix, intestines, causing fatal damage. And the most famous of all, the iron maiden. It was a coffin like contraption with spikes stuck inside and on the the "door." Your body was pushed into the coffen while it was still standing. They would shut the door and the spikes would drive into your body, but enough that you were still alive. A little slot was open so you could see outside and one would often fight to keep the coffin balance.
Now talk about torture, sick enough?
Now the moral of everything and what I am driving towards.
Is it enough that religion is stuffed down our throats? How could people be so cruel? Why didn't people think of reason as soon as the Greeks. If God controls our fate, then that must mean we have no free will?
I honestly think that the inquisition was probably the most stupidest act ever commited by any religion. People should never torture other humans. I mean, WTH was up with the church?
/ends somewhat immature and pointelss history lesson.
As of right now in social studies at school, I am learning about the middle ages, the scientific revolution, absolutism, the black plague, and such. Very interesting stuff I have to say, especially when your teacher is quite enthusiastic about it. He even told us stories about how he became a teacher. His old teacher use to scare the shiznit out of people, when they were sleeping, by wapping a ruler so hard on their desk that it would shatter. One girl **** her pants. The other time, the same girl was carrying a bucket full of urine for a biology experiement, and she ran to her class, because she was late, then tripped and the bucket hit a gas vent, exploding all over the students. She soon left the school after that.
Anways, on topic.
It can be said that religion is probably responsible for the most deaths in the world. At a time in the world, where faith took over reason, and people were taken advantage by people, who could read and write, such as priests, nobles, and the such, uneducated people would look up to the "wiser" ones and believe what spewed out of their writings and mouths. The church was the most powerful institution, because it was believed that God's will allowed it to. As such, popes were often corrupt, people were always vying for papacy, and one, who was truly spiritual would be observed by the intelligent wicked and quickly plotted against for a quick exit. The belief that the church was at the top of the ladder was instilled in all people's minds and even kings. Not until later, would kings and monarchy overrule the church, but still, the church was powerful. So the point being, the church was extremely powerful, took advantage of it's so called spiritual reign over everything, and was responsible for so many idiotic acts such as the crusades and inquisition.
Now to get on with the meats of the discussion.
So the inquisition was officially started by by Pope Innocent III in order to stop heresy, but mostly, because the odd groups here and there would prove threatful to the church's power. During the years before Reformation, so many people were killed under painful methods of torture. It got worse and worse, into the reformation and afterwards until people got into the idea of humanism and found that reason, such as the greeks had found out, was useful into finding the truth of things. To name such people who used logic, experiementation, observation, and conclusion, are people like Galileo and Capernicus.
Anways, people during the inquisition were brutally tortured, people were often accused of being a witch and such. The simple acusation would often get them interviewed by the inquisitors or whoever was doing the trials. It was thought that in order for the accused to be executed, they had to confess. They would torture them very cruely to wring out confessions. The torturer would often explain to them what he was about to do. The tortures got worse and worse and once the accused confessed, they would also be torured on the way to the gallows, with their body parts nailed to the gallows and such.
For example: women's breasts were ripped off with fiery-hot pincers and were forced into the victims mouth. People were also forced to drink coals, and hot silt. Another gruesome torture, people were often hooked beneath the spinal colum with a giant hoock and left dangling. People were skinned alive. Some were amputated and forced to eat their own amputated parts. Thumbscrews were designed to screw into your thumbs, forcing blood to gush out. Umm, people were often strapped onto a giant wheel and rolled down a steep and edgy cliff. They use to use a contraption called a pear that was designed to enter the **** or rectum, it was expanded to the point of ripping in the tissue, and the spikes at the end were often used to rip out the cervix, intestines, causing fatal damage. And the most famous of all, the iron maiden. It was a coffin like contraption with spikes stuck inside and on the the "door." Your body was pushed into the coffen while it was still standing. They would shut the door and the spikes would drive into your body, but enough that you were still alive. A little slot was open so you could see outside and one would often fight to keep the coffin balance.
Now talk about torture, sick enough?
Now the moral of everything and what I am driving towards.
Is it enough that religion is stuffed down our throats? How could people be so cruel? Why didn't people think of reason as soon as the Greeks. If God controls our fate, then that must mean we have no free will?
I honestly think that the inquisition was probably the most stupidest act ever commited by any religion. People should never torture other humans. I mean, WTH was up with the church?
/ends somewhat immature and pointelss history lesson.
Comments
On to the part about destiny; I believe that every person has a set path that will bring out the best in them. However, it is up to them whether they want to follow that optimum path, or try to come up with, and follow a more inferior path.
But isn't it OK to torture terrorists?
do you mean that?
do terrorists not count as humans now? are they that demonised?
What I always found funny was that they would kill a lot of people whether they converted or not.
I do not believe in fate, per se. But I do believe that even though we have free will, our behavior and choices (thus our life) can be predicted and accurately described. We do make our own choices along the way, and they are ours.... but that does not make the outcome at the end any less likely.
That would lead some folks to ask "well then do you really have a choice?". The answer is yes, you do. God, Fate, Buddah, whatever simply knows the *results* of your choices ahead of time, nothing more.
I really would have thought that Communist Russia and China might have shown a lot of you something, but obviously not. In Soviet Russia the official state religion was Atheism. No God, no religion. Stalin, holding fastly to the idea that there was no diety to be responsible for his actions to, murdered millions of his own people. Millions. All of this without religion. The same is happening in China, thousands of people are executed there by athiests simply because they are following a religion. Both these nations torture/d their own citizens, yet no re
More people have died in wars in the 20th century than have died in all the previous centuries PUT TOGETHER. So lets see, which religion started WW1? Was it Muslim Germany vs Christian Britian? No. Which religion started WW2? The Boer war? The Vietnam war? Korean war? The answer to all the above is none. None of the above were started by religion.
I think its time people started to face the hard reality that people are basically evil. They have potential for good, but its human nature to subjugate, torture and kill. So lets have an end to this "Religion causes human suffering/religion starts war" nonsense. Humans kill humans, stop attacking what is sometimes the justification as the actual problem.
The original Inquisition was moderate and useful to expunge heresies such as Catharism, which could have been disastrous if not kept in check. The first ecclesiastic courts were fair and just, and the worst punishment they could deal out was turning over the heretic to secular authorities. It was them, the secular rulers, who punished traitors with death.
That this procedure later degenerated into the follies of the Spanish Inquisition under Torquemada is unfortunate, but it should not be forgotten that the Kings regarded the trials as useful tools of dealing with their political enemies.
I'm not aware of any reasonable analysis of the actual death counts the Inquisition inflicted. Even then we should keep in mind that many of the heretics were true criminals who would be met with the full force of the law today as well.
I really would have thought that Communist Russia and China might have shown a lot of you something, but obviously not. In Soviet Russia the official state religion was Atheism. No God, no religion. Stalin, holding fastly to the idea that there was no diety to be responsible for his actions to, murdered millions of his own people. Millions. All of this without religion. The same is happening in China, thousands of people are executed there by athiests simply because they are following a religion. Both these nations torture/d their own citizens, yet no re
More people have died in wars in the 20th century than have died in all the previous centuries PUT TOGETHER. So lets see, which religion started WW1? Was it Muslim Germany vs Christian Britian? No. Which religion started WW2? The Boer war? The Vietnam war? Korean war? The answer to all the above is none. None of the above were started by religion.
I think its time people started to face the hard reality that people are basically evil. They have potential for good, but its human nature to subjugate, torture and kill. So lets have an end to this "Religion causes human suffering/religion starts war" nonsense. Humans kill humans, stop attacking what is sometimes the justification as the actual problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er.. I would interpret it more as religion being the number one cause of ... "defenseless" deaths. Like massacres.
Wars end up with so many dead because it's kill or be killed. Not in the case of the inquisition where one party had no chance against the other.
And stalin didn't kill millions of people because they were deists. He killed them for other reasons. A killing perpetrated by an atheist isn't a religiously motivated killing.
Yes, the inquisition I think was one of the most horrible and stupid acts committed by people. But it just makes you wonder. They did it in the name of god. Did the people who carried it out believe "more" in god, or believe in a "righter" concept of god that you do? How do you know that god did/didn't want them to do this? Which version of christianity is the "right" (ie correct) one?
The original Inquisition was moderate and useful to expunge heresies such as Catharism, which could have been disastrous if not kept in check. The first ecclesiastic courts were fair and just, and the worst punishment they could deal out was turning over the heretic to secular authorities. It was them, the secular rulers, who punished traitors with death. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmm if I recall it right Catharism was no threat at all. This "heresy" (different interpretation of the Bible , nothing else) was probably more tolerant than the main Christian ways of thinking. Anyway , things went horribly wrong later and led to a massacre once the last Cathar castle was assaulted. I heard that the people here were forced to form a beeline before being executed as they had both eyes pierced previously... talk about "fair treatment" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
"moderate Inquisition" sounds like an oxymoron.
Lets begin!
The Inquistion!
Look out sin!
We're on a mission... to convert the JEWS (Jew-ja Jew Jew Jewdada Jews)
:-)
no.
Humans are responsible for the most deaths in the world. dont try to blame this on religion.
I really would have thought that Communist Russia and China might have shown a lot of you something, but obviously not. In Soviet Russia the official state religion was Atheism. No God, no religion. Stalin, holding fastly to the idea that there was no diety to be responsible for his actions to, murdered millions of his own people. Millions. All of this without religion. The same is happening in China, thousands of people are executed there by athiests simply because they are following a religion. Both these nations torture/d their own citizens, yet no re
More people have died in wars in the 20th century than have died in all the previous centuries PUT TOGETHER. So lets see, which religion started WW1? Was it Muslim Germany vs Christian Britian? No. Which religion started WW2? The Boer war? The Vietnam war? Korean war? The answer to all the above is none. None of the above were started by religion.
I think its time people started to face the hard reality that people are basically evil. They have potential for good, but its human nature to subjugate, torture and kill. So lets have an end to this "Religion causes human suffering/religion starts war" nonsense. Humans kill humans, stop attacking what is sometimes the justification as the actual problem. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er.. I would interpret it more as religion being the number one cause of ... "defenseless" deaths. Like massacres.
Wars end up with so many dead because it's kill or be killed. Not in the case of the inquisition where one party had no chance against the other.
And stalin didn't kill millions of people because they were deists. He killed them for other reasons. A killing perpetrated by an atheist isn't a religiously motivated killing.
Yes, the inquisition I think was one of the most horrible and stupid acts committed by people. But it just makes you wonder. They did it in the name of god. Did the people who carried it out believe "more" in god, or believe in a "righter" concept of god that you do? How do you know that god did/didn't want them to do this? Which version of christianity is the "right" (ie correct) one? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stalin butchered his own people, not just in wars but in "peacetime" as well, and they were defenceless. It really sounds to me like you are trying to say that religion is the number one cause of all religious related killings - which is absolutely correct <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
China kills its own citizens, and they are defenceless. And anyway, I was responding to Kida's original flawed (imo) statement
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It can be said that religion is probably responsible for the most deaths in the world<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is a myth. Hence the myth debunking hat.
Stalin didnt kill millions of people because they were deists, exactly. And a killing perpetrated by an atheist isnt a religiously motivated killing ethier, exactly. That was pretty much the whole point of what I posted. People kill people, not religion. And showing atheistic butcherers merely backs up my point that its not religion making this happen - its humans. Religion is NOT the cause of most killings. It get a good workout as the excuse and justifier, but it is definately not the cause (in almost all cases).