Eastern Religion Vs Western Religion
Caboose
title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Just want some oppinions...</div> <span style='font-family:Impact'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>IF YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT EASTERN RELIGION DON'T POST</span></span></span>
<span style='color:red'>Do some research first if you really want to know</span>
I have been raised in a home that is not really religious in the sence that my family practices anything like going to church or anything, but have allways been tought that there is a god and life starts, ends, then you either go to heaven or hell.
But I have recently taken interest in Buddhism. A friend of mine and I got into a discussion about eastern religions like Buddhism and Hinduism and I followed that up with some reaserch on Buddhism and Hinduism. I especiallly find the ideas of Buddhism intriguing (sp?) and I want to get some oppinions on what people think.
Which train of thought is better? Eastern, where life is a repeating cycle that your goal is to escape from the suffering in life, or Western where life is a line in which you are born, you die, then you go somewhere else for all eternity? Support your answers please!
<span style='color:red'>Do some research first if you really want to know</span>
I have been raised in a home that is not really religious in the sence that my family practices anything like going to church or anything, but have allways been tought that there is a god and life starts, ends, then you either go to heaven or hell.
But I have recently taken interest in Buddhism. A friend of mine and I got into a discussion about eastern religions like Buddhism and Hinduism and I followed that up with some reaserch on Buddhism and Hinduism. I especiallly find the ideas of Buddhism intriguing (sp?) and I want to get some oppinions on what people think.
Which train of thought is better? Eastern, where life is a repeating cycle that your goal is to escape from the suffering in life, or Western where life is a line in which you are born, you die, then you go somewhere else for all eternity? Support your answers please!
Comments
No version of thought should be considered better than the other. People believe in what they want to believe.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> where life is a repeating cycle that your goal is to escape from the suffering in life,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I know, correct me if I am wrong please, Karma determines what you will be in the next life. I don't like the idea of suffering only to suffer in the next life as another organism. Every organasm dies and death isn't a pleasant experience, especially how you die. There is no grace in this teaching which attracts me to it. Buddhism is a pretty cool concept, but it doesn't include the idea of a creator God. I totally respect both religions, or I try to, because I had some friends of different religions before. I had friend, who was a sikh, and was a real role model.
I like the idea of a God, who is forgiving and shows grace to his followers. A God, who came down to die for us. An almighty God.
But then again, I am kind of at a choke point with God. I just hope some day that God and I will have a good relationship. I should be trying hard to be what he wants me to be, but it is really hard to change.
Anyway, the problem with Islam compared to other religions is that it hasn't gone under any reformations in the past 2000 years or so. They still have the same beliefs and guide lines from the time of Rome. Kinda makes it hard to exist in the 20th century overall.
Certainly, but why do they believe one thing and not the other when given free choice? Obviously because they consider one concept intellectually superior to the other.
I've recently read an interesting essay: A critique of Zen Buddhism from a Christian perspective. It nicely outlines all the differences of the two systems.
<a href='http://www.berith.org/essays/zen/' target='_blank'>Zen: A Trinitarian Critique</a>
The conclusion Smith draws is somewhat drastic:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What Zen recommends as the way of enlightenment -- becoming one with the ultimate reality -- is simply another form of the Satanic promise to Eve: "you shall be as God." Even so, for many, it may not be obvious that Zen enlightenment is the very essence of sin. It is only with serious consideration of ethical issues -- the place where philosophy confronts historical particularity -- that Zen is clearly exposed as pretense. For at this point in history, "enlightenment" is not the word we use to describe philosophies that endorse fascism and communism. What has often been remarked of other religions and philosophies is also true of Zen: it is precisely when men aspire to deity, that they degenerate to demons.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
also, Hos can they justify the millions of starving individuals simply byu saying "they are getting what they deserve. they are working off bad karma from a previous life"
one other thing. If the goal of buddism is to escape the circle by doing better and better things, surely it would make sense to be able to remember your previous life so you can see where you went wrong and do the right thing this time.
Im sorry, i just dont buy the whole reincarnation thing
also, Hos can they justify the millions of starving individuals simply byu saying "they are getting what they deserve. they are working off bad karma from a previous life"
one other thing. If the goal of buddism is to escape the circle by doing better and better things, surely it would make sense to be able to remember your previous life so you can see where you went wrong and do the right thing this time.
Im sorry, i just dont buy the whole reincarnation thing <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You buy that a virgin gave birth to God but you don't buy that?.....
Twex, the conclusion smith draws is based on the idea that God and Satan exist in the first place, so it doesn't really count since there is no god in buddism.
On karma:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Although Buddhism attributes this variation to Karma, as being the chief cause among a variety, it does not, however, assert that everything is due to Karma. The law of Karma, important as it is, is only one of the twenty-four conditions described in Buddhist Philosophy.
Refuting the erroneous view that "whatsoever fortune or misfortune experienced is all due to some previous action", the Buddha said:
"So, then, according to this view, owing to previous action men will become murderers, thieves, unchaste, liars, slanderers, covetous, malicious and perverts. Thus, for those who fall back on the former deeds as the essential reason, there is neither the desire to do, nor effort to do, nor necessity to do this deed, or abstain from this deed."
It was this important text, which states the belief that all physical circumstances and mental attitudes spring solely from past Karma that Buddha contradicted. If the present life is totally conditioned or wholly controlled by our past actions, then certainly Karma is tantamount to fatalism or determinism or predestination. If this were true, free will would be an absurdity. Life would be purely mechanistic, not much different from a machine. Being created by an Almighty God who controls our destinies and predetermines our future, or being produced by an irresistible Karma that completely determines our fate and controls our life’s course, independent of any free action on our part, is essentially the same. The only difference lies in the two words God and Karma. One could easily be substituted for the other, because the ultimate operation of both forces would be identical.
Such a fatalistic doctrine is not the Buddhist law of Karma. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quote from <a href='http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm' target='_blank'>here.</a> Please people, it only took about 5 minutes of googling + reading to find this, try a bit harder.
The main difference between buddhism and western religions is that the western ones teach that God is "out there somewhere" and that buddhism teaches that God, whatever that mystic force is, must be inside, in the earth, in every single thing.
I'ts a deep philosophy, but I can't help looking at it through the lens of Christian thinking, looking at why this idea is becoming increasingly popular in the western world.
I think the link you provided sumed it up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->According to Buddhism, this inequality is due not only to heredity, environment, "nature and nurture", but also to Karma. In other words, it is the result of our own past actions and our own present doings. We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone likes the idea, at least right off the bat, that there is a bigger fish out there; we are built to survive, and part of survival is not being devoured by that bigger fish. But when the same logic applies to spiritual things, then to an extent it reveals something akin to arrogance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Buddhism is also a belief system which is tolerant of all other beliefs or religions. Buddhism agrees with the moral teachings of other religions but Buddhism goes further by providing a long term purpose within our existence, through wisdom and true understanding. Real Buddhism is very tolerant and not concerned with labels like 'Christian', 'Moslem', 'Hindu' or 'Buddhist'<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If all those other religions were right, if any of them turned out to be right, then a belief system that would provide " long term purpose" is not nesscessary. Christ taught to go and "make disciples of all nations" so that others may share in eternal life, so that there would be long term reprocussions of our actions for the good of all.
Buddhism, simply, is like every other religion in that it claims to be the only right one.
And with that, I have to head to Brit Lit. Expect more later.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find Buddhism interesting because of wanting eternal life, which is what all western religions like Christianity and Judaism want, Buddhists want to escape from eternal life and reach nirvana. They want to break the cycle of birth death and reincarnation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Certainly, but why do they believe one thing and not the other when given free choice? Obviously because they consider one concept intellectually superior to the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What choice? If sombody is brought up in western culture there oppinions are biased on the beleifes that God created everything. It is a shock to the cultural essnece. So because people have long been in that way of thinking, they see that as the right way and are not as open as they would be if they knew nothing of religion and had literally just heard the word "religion" for the first time. Then who knows what choice they would make?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't like the idea of suffering only to suffer in the next life as another organism. Every organasm dies and death isn't a pleasant experience, especially how you die. There is no grace in this teaching which attracts me to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that the casts system makes some sort of sense too. It is the Christian equivilant to doing good in life to have a good afterlife. It explains that you are in a bad position because you did bad things before, not that you <b><i>are</i></b> a bad person. It exists to make people do the right thing, to do on to others as they wish others to do on to them. To bring about a sense of morality. Very similar to do good in life and do very good in the next, as western religions see it. So if life is full of suffering, you must do good things to eventually get rid of suffering and to live better in the next life, eventually making it so you are not reborn and have NO suffering what so ever.
Just my oppinion on The West vs East thing.
Anyway, the problem with Islam compared to other religions is that it hasn't gone under any reformations in the past 2000 years or so. They still have the same beliefs and guide lines from the time of Rome. Kinda makes it hard to exist in the 20th century overall. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't going to engage in this discussion, but this, I can not let slip.
Claiming that Islam hasn't changed for the last 2000 years is a bold move, seeing that it didn't exist for 2000 years. Mohammed, highest prophet and founder of the religion was born in 571. Islam is currently in its 1400s. It's in a state of development comparable to the Christian late Dark Age.
One could successfully argue that Jesus introduced what are in effect Buddhist ethic concepts into Judaism, and Islam was founded as much on the local natural religions as on the philosophic roots of Judaism and Christianity.
I do not like them. No sir. If that offends, then it offends.
first of all Fanatism makes you narrowminded. and secondly the way religios fanatics is narrowminded is by very old principles that haven't been 'updated' to the current times.
and i'd say the Western religion have done just as many wrongdoings as the eastern have (medieval ages...)
back on topic:
i dont know that much about eastern religions, but i like the idea of reincarnation, balance and all that stuff(as i said i dont know much about it). the Western is more extreme we have GOOD! and BAD!, which is in my eyes is so very wrong - nothing is ultimatly good nor evil. everything has a good and a bad side/effect somehow.
first of all Fanatism makes you narrowminded. and secondly the way religios fanatics is narrowminded is by very old principles that haven't been 'updated' to the current times.
and i'd say the Western religion have done just as many wrongdoings as the eastern have (medieval ages...)
back on topic:
i dont know that much about eastern religions, but i like the idea of reincarnation, balance and all that stuff(as i said i dont know much about it). the Western is more extreme we have GOOD! and BAD!, which is in my eyes is so very wrong - nothing is ultimatly good nor evil. everything has a good and a bad side/effect somehow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can hardly find good in the thought of raping a 7 year old girl. Or running over a two year old. Or the holocaust.
There is an absolute system of good and evil in this world, and there are actions which align on those two poles.
first of all Fanatism makes you narrowminded. and secondly the way religios fanatics is narrowminded is by very old principles that haven't been 'updated' to the current times.
and i'd say the Western religion have done just as many wrongdoings as the eastern have (medieval ages...)
back on topic:
i dont know that much about eastern religions, but i like the idea of reincarnation, balance and all that stuff(as i said i dont know much about it). the Western is more extreme we have GOOD! and BAD!, which is in my eyes is so very wrong - nothing is ultimatly good nor evil. everything has a good and a bad side/effect somehow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can hardly find good in the thought of raping a 7 year old girl. Or running over a two year old. Or the holocaust.
There is an absolute system of good and evil in this world, and there are actions which align on those two poles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunatly, not all matters are as black and white as your examples.
first of all Fanatism makes you narrowminded. and secondly the way religios fanatics is narrowminded is by very old principles that haven't been 'updated' to the current times.
and i'd say the Western religion have done just as many wrongdoings as the eastern have (medieval ages...)
back on topic:
i dont know that much about eastern religions, but i like the idea of reincarnation, balance and all that stuff(as i said i dont know much about it). the Western is more extreme we have GOOD! and BAD!, which is in my eyes is so very wrong - nothing is ultimatly good nor evil. everything has a good and a bad side/effect somehow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can hardly find good in the thought of raping a 7 year old girl. Or running over a two year old. Or the holocaust.
There is an absolute system of good and evil in this world, and there are actions which align on those two poles. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunatly, not all matters are as black and white as your examples. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does it matter? The point is, there IS a black and white, so there has to be a point where it turns from dark grey to light grey, and everything on the white site of that line is Good, and everything on the other side is black.
Thus, a system that determines good from evil does exist. There may be something taht's only a little more bad than good, but that still makes it bad.
I don't really have much to say other than that =P
the Tao Te Ching is good reading for anyone. Real good philosophy, that... it's short, too :> <a href='http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html' target='_blank'>http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/T...TaoTeChing.html</a>
first of all Fanatism makes you narrowminded. and secondly the way religios fanatics is narrowminded is by very old principles that haven't been 'updated' to the current times.
and i'd say the Western religion have done just as many wrongdoings as the eastern have (medieval ages...)
back on topic:
i dont know that much about eastern religions, but i like the idea of reincarnation, balance and all that stuff(as i said i dont know much about it). the Western is more extreme we have GOOD! and BAD!, which is in my eyes is so very wrong - nothing is ultimatly good nor evil. everything has a good and a bad side/effect somehow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can hardly find good in the thought of raping a 7 year old girl. Or running over a two year old. Or the holocaust.
There is an absolute system of good and evil in this world, and there are actions which align on those two poles. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunatly, not all matters are as black and white as your examples. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does it matter? The point is, there IS a black and white, so there has to be a point where it turns from dark grey to light grey, and everything on the white site of that line is Good, and everything on the other side is black.
Thus, a system that determines good from evil does exist. There may be something taht's only a little more bad than good, but that still makes it bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is that attempting to determine where that line is becomes an exersise in futility. Its mostly a matter of opinion. Hardcore christians will place me on the 'dark' side of the line, simply because I don't believe in christ. Islamic fundamentalists will place christians on the 'dark' side. Attempting to find some sort of universal dividing line between dark and light will only cause you headaches. Thus the 'grey area' becomes indeterminably separated somewhere in the middle and so 'good' and 'bad' become very realative terms.
But, the bible doesn't teach that you have to be past the 1/2way point, it teaches that you must be perfectly white, perfectly good, which is where Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross comes in. He makes you perfect, he takes away the punishment for all that sin, all that impurity, onto himself. All you have to do is ask Him to.
Even today, many Buddhists don't mind praying in the church or paying respect to the Hindu gods. The idea of Karma was a popular word among the western people regarding Buddhism (dont flame me here) because when you think of Buddhism, you always thought of Dalai Lama and his sect as it is their major theme. Try China, India, Southeast Asia, Japan.
The very conservative and traditional Buddhism was basically teaching people how to stress relief. Eg.Too much money - paranoia about losing it, Too little - starving. So you always go in between.
For me personally, Christianity offers my more conflicts than spiritual enlightenment. Well, if we take the Bible word by word literally, I still have no clue if we're going to hell or heaven. Too much conflicts between the Old Testiment and the New Testiment.
Don't take my words too seriously.