<!--QuoteBegin--Masterchief+Oct 1 2003, 09:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Masterchief @ Oct 1 2003, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The way I see it is that its a bug/exploit. If a IP can kill an onos on it, it should have no trouble vaporizing a chamber of any sort. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, that makes about as much sense as this: If you can vaporize an enemy with IP or Phasegate then you should be getting vaporized also.
When you use a phase gate, it checks to see if there are any structures blocking the phase gate. If there are, it blocks the phase. It then checks to see if there are any players blocking the phase gate. If there are teammates that have phased within the last 2 seconds, it blocks the phase. If the phase succeeds, it kills any players that are on the phase gate. So teammates have a 2 second window to get off the phase gate; enemies are telefragged instantly. <b> Structures however can still block a phase</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As it clearly states in the changelog, the ability for buildings to block phases or other structures where marines enter is something the team not only accepts, but makes special point of bringing up in the changelog itself. That's <b>official Natural Selection team publishing</b> saying that building on something is <b>intentionally</b> in the game.
So, by that logic, it's completely legit (and hence NOT an exploit) to drop a sensory chamber on an IP or phasegate to block it. Therefore, why is it an exploit to indirectly block them using four to six more times the res by corralling them with DCs?
Please, if you can explain that one with a logical answer that does not contradict the fact that the Natural Selection team has <b>intentionally</b> left in the collision code that blocks those things, then I'll give you one big f'in cookie.
In my opinion, you did good work. If the marines and the marine comm are so blind and stupid to Not defend one of their most vital structures, they get what they deserve, a nice smack in the face.
Honestly, it's like watching a guy put a potato in your cars muffler. You dont ring the police once they've done it. You try to stop the prankster in the first place.
Prevention is the best cure. If you allow a gorge, a weak, non-combatant alien that takes a single LMG clip to kill on it's own, to waltz into your base (albeit cloaked) and plop an OC on your IP, you deserve to lose.
This rule is not retroactive. It does not apply to any matches that have already occured. After having talked to Flayra and learning that it is officially NOT intended. The rules will now inform everyone that:
Blocking phase gates is now considered an exploit and illegal.
So don't do it! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->New Exploit Added to the rules
From here on out, blocking Infantry Portals is illegal and morally unjustifiable. So don't be bad! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, it was only a public game, and not on a ladder...But I think this should apply to all games.
Rat: The changelog simply says that phase gates are blockable by structures. It does not say that they are <b>meant</b> to be blockable. Based on the post by Ecks, it seems that they simply didn't get to fixing that code before releasing NS 2.01. In other words, it is in the game, but <b>not intentionally</b>.
Second, the marines were not coralled by dc's. The dc's were on the ip's, trapping spawning marines in them.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Oct 2 2003, 01:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Oct 2 2003, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Distress beacon is the counter to it, just as sieges were the counter to an overgrown elevator. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Beacon isn't a counter - it's a long-winded workaround. Blocking IPs is roughly equivalent to having marines spawn camping in a hive.
Some would say that spawn camping is a valid tactic, but the bottom line is that the game should be fun for <b>both</b> sides. If one team can't spawn in, they're not going to be having fun. More likely they'll be cursing the other team (leading to some lovely in-game flaming and bringing down of the mood) and no doubt also the dev team for leaving this "feature" in.
<!--QuoteBegin--Maus+Oct 2 2003, 12:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maus @ Oct 2 2003, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Oct 2 2003, 01:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Oct 2 2003, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Distress beacon is the counter to it, just as sieges were the counter to an overgrown elevator. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Beacon isn't a counter - it's a long-winded workaround. Blocking IPs is roughly equivalent to having marines spawn camping in a hive.
Some would say that spawn camping is a valid tactic, but the bottom line is that the game should be fun for <b>both</b> sides. If one team can't spawn in, they're not going to be having fun. More likely they'll be cursing the other team (leading to some lovely in-game flaming and bringing down of the mood) and no doubt also the dev team for leaving this "feature" in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Long-winded work around ? I don't understand your logic. Marines get killed on IP, there all stuck in the respawn que, you hi beacon, they respawn, kill chamber, problem solved.
Beacon is actually a direct counter <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Spawn camping is valid, as is putting chambers on IPs (IMO of course). Yes, on a personal level you may find it annoying, but you can't deny that tactically speaking if you allow marines/gorges to wander into your spawning area unchallenged, you deserve what you get.
I heard hud_fastswitch was an exploit too, when will you people learn. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its a good move and a nice tactic. Too bad for the commander and the marines. Its not a n explote because it can be countered in so many ways. 1 Obs in base would have prevented them from getting close enough to do anything. He (comm) could have dropped a SG for him self, got out of the chair and wasted all of you Gorges in seconds. Comm could have added more turrets.
Building on ips and phases is an exploit. As Ecks brought up the cal rules which state it is an exploit and that it is because they asked Flay and he said it was. I'm surprised so many people thought this type of thing ok as I know many forum goers are in cal... That being said I do it late in the game whenever I can cus its funny. I know its an exploit but when the games over I find it entertaining. I think its kinda cheap though and I dont do it when the game is still in question.
Well as I said, the marines were really lamme there.
I play a lot, I try this once in a while and most times I fail, so even if its an exploit, it´s a really hard one to ... exploit <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW we had 3 hives and the action was on double res, the map I think was ns_veil, so the game was kinda near the end anyway.
man thats a lot of search results <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> discussed argued... forgotton, read it up if youre morally against it its a rather trivial difference in this situation to me ;p
Comments
THIS is a Marine:
<img src='http://www.readyroom.org/ns_models/marine2b_thumb.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
and either
<img src='http://www.screensavershot.com/sports/mariners.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'> or <img src='http://members.aol.com/marygazo/sailor.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
is a Mariner.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hmm, that makes about as much sense as this: If you can vaporize an enemy with IP or Phasegate then you should be getting vaporized also.
Both are great ideas!
When you use a phase gate, it checks to see if there are any structures blocking the phase gate. If there are, it blocks the phase. It then checks to see if there are any players blocking the phase gate. If there are teammates that have phased within the last 2 seconds, it blocks the phase. If the phase succeeds, it kills any players that are on the phase gate. So teammates have a 2 second window to get off the phase gate; enemies are telefragged instantly. <b> Structures however can still block a phase</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As it clearly states in the changelog, the ability for buildings to block phases or other structures where marines enter is something the team not only accepts, but makes special point of bringing up in the changelog itself. That's <b>official Natural Selection team publishing</b> saying that building on something is <b>intentionally</b> in the game.
So, by that logic, it's completely legit (and hence NOT an exploit) to drop a sensory chamber on an IP or phasegate to block it. Therefore, why is it an exploit to indirectly block them using four to six more times the res by corralling them with DCs?
Please, if you can explain that one with a logical answer that does not contradict the fact that the Natural Selection team has <b>intentionally</b> left in the collision code that blocks those things, then I'll give you one big f'in cookie.
Honestly, it's like watching a guy put a potato in your cars muffler. You dont ring the police once they've done it. You try to stop the prankster in the first place.
Prevention is the best cure. If you allow a gorge, a weak, non-combatant alien that takes a single LMG clip to kill on it's own, to waltz into your base (albeit cloaked) and plop an OC on your IP, you deserve to lose.
As posted at <a href='http://www.caleague.com' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->New exploit!
This rule is not retroactive. It does not apply to any matches that have already occured. After having talked to Flayra and learning that it is officially NOT intended. The rules will now inform everyone that:
Blocking phase gates is now considered an exploit and illegal.
So don't do it!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->New Exploit Added to the rules
From here on out, blocking Infantry Portals is illegal and morally unjustifiable. So don't be bad!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, it was only a public game, and not on a ladder...But I think this should apply to all games.
Second, the marines were not coralled by dc's. The dc's were on the ip's, trapping spawning marines in them.
Beacon isn't a counter - it's a long-winded workaround. Blocking IPs is roughly equivalent to having marines spawn camping in a hive.
Some would say that spawn camping is a valid tactic, but the bottom line is that the game should be fun for <b>both</b> sides. If one team can't spawn in, they're not going to be having fun. More likely they'll be cursing the other team (leading to some lovely in-game flaming and bringing down of the mood) and no doubt also the dev team for leaving this "feature" in.
Beacon isn't a counter - it's a long-winded workaround. Blocking IPs is roughly equivalent to having marines spawn camping in a hive.
Some would say that spawn camping is a valid tactic, but the bottom line is that the game should be fun for <b>both</b> sides. If one team can't spawn in, they're not going to be having fun. More likely they'll be cursing the other team (leading to some lovely in-game flaming and bringing down of the mood) and no doubt also the dev team for leaving this "feature" in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Long-winded work around ? I don't understand your logic. Marines get killed on IP, there all stuck in the respawn que, you hi beacon, they respawn, kill chamber, problem solved.
Beacon is actually a direct counter <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Spawn camping is valid, as is putting chambers on IPs (IMO of course). Yes, on a personal level you may find it annoying, but you can't deny that tactically speaking if you allow marines/gorges to wander into your spawning area unchallenged, you deserve what you get.
Its not a n explote because it can be countered in so many ways.
1 Obs in base would have prevented them from getting close enough to do anything. He (comm) could have dropped a SG for him self, got out of the chair and wasted all of you Gorges in seconds. Comm could have added more turrets.
Good victory!
I play a lot, I try this once in a while and most times I fail, so even if its an exploit, it´s a really hard one to ... exploit <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW we had 3 hives and the action was on double res, the map I think was ns_veil, so the game was kinda near the end anyway.