I nominate hambone for the position of teaching pubbers how to use IRC ;o.
Realistically, this is a good idea, but its going to take assloads of work on the part of many people. From getting the whole damn thing started to drafting new people, to settling disputes.
My suggestions - go for it 100% or don't even bother - don't trust people to make "fair and decent decisions," force them to follow a system. - your going to need more than 6 on a team, because how the hell are you going to make these people show up for events? Something you have to figure out.
IE. One guy doesn't show, and the rest suffer because of it and can't punish him.
<!--QuoteBegin--HAMBONE+Oct 6 2003, 01:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Oct 6 2003, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only condition I'd like to see is that there should be a minimum of 3-4 non-clan players in each draft team. If 4 or 5 of us on each team are already in competitive clans then it kinda seems like a waste of time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Good Point.
lets put the show on the road, i know a few ppl just from my school that are willing to join up already. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--incinarator+Oct 7 2003, 09:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (incinarator @ Oct 7 2003, 09:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lets put the show on the road, i know a few ppl just from my school that are willing to join up already. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> By all means, get as many people as you want, everyone that is planning this event (myself included) believe that we should have like a 7 pubber : 1 clanner ratio per team, so we really need a lot of people to participate.
<!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Oct 7 2003, 09:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Oct 7 2003, 09:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I demand for SniperMarine to be my team leader. I wont settle for less. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First SNipermarine would have to be a team leader, and then he would have to choose you.
<!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Oct 7 2003, 08:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Oct 7 2003, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I must bathe myself in olive oil, then put on my fade suit and wizard hat. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> haha
I love the idea of us nonclanners being shown what the clan scene is all about from the preparation to the actual playing.
A suggestion or a change to the system, if a team or team captain/leader wishes to have his clan or friends on their team they are handicapped, like if you have two clan members you have to win by a bigger margin or for a set time the better members are not allowed to join the game until a time, this then would make for penalties for choosing the best players, if the teams turn out to have the same number of good players between them then this penalty system doesn't apply.
By now the clans have a good knowledge of who else is good so if a team stacked themselves they would be heavily handicapped, imagine 6 clan members in a team, their handicap, they start with the leader and two new players for ten minutes then one clan member comes in, five minutes later two clanners, then five later the last two members, you stack your team you have to wait twenty five of thirty minutes before you have a full team so you can lose by being greedy.
The smartest captain/leader picks newbie people and spends time training them and possibly ends up with new clan members for the next season or brings their standard up to a very high level so they are good clan material.
As I think everyone knows you get better quicker playing with skilled players. If my idea is crazy I'm sorry, I've never played in a clan.
I'd be willing to help if I wasn't so busy, but I hardely keep myself active in my own clan, let alone two.
I must warn you though, I've seen this fail in the dod community as well. It *will* fail, unless you get people to be very very dedicated. Also, team-hopping/just dropping out will be an issue.
I was talking with a friend once about the similarities between NS and football
- everyone plays a role - if there is a dominant player, and no one can match up to him, that team (with decent teamwork) wins example: randy moss catching long bombs in the endzone, constantly
anyways, there's some other comparisons, but that's for another thread. point being
why not organize NS:Draft like an NFL league
With a starting roster, second, third strings
That way, if some of the first stringers dont' show, second string would get to play, etc.
Team depth would be a strong consideration for the drafters, drafting for specialized roles (gorge, shotgunners, etc) would also slip in as well.
Scheduling could be the same too, practices during 5 days out of the week, with a day for all the games, and then a "monday night" for the feature game. This would more give it the feel of the team that practices the most and works together the best has the better chance on judgement day to win.
Also, whoever you're drafted by has exclusive "rights" to your WONiD. - you can't play for other teams while you're on a team - if you drop from your team, you have to sit out for "x" amount of weeks - trades could happen with this - salary caps could still be measured with the aforementioned 'point' system. - rosters must be maintained at a minimum number (14?)
But yeah, I figure the NFL model is as good of a place as any to start giving concrete structure to the league; that is if you guys haven't figured one out already.
HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Theres an easier way to do it hawthorne. 8-9 people per team. Match times are posted in the priv channel by the leader: "Match vs ClanX at 9:00 Saturday - Roster: MyName". Then the first 5 people to put their name in the topic are the ones playing on that day. Otherwise you just scrim when you have 6 on.
<!--QuoteBegin--HAMBONE+Oct 7 2003, 04:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Oct 7 2003, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Theres an easier way to do it hawthorne. 8-9 people per team. Match times are posted in the priv channel by the leader: "Match vs ClanX at 9:00 Saturday - Roster: MyName". Then the first 5 people to put their name in the topic are the ones playing on that day. Otherwise you just scrim when you have 6 on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Good idea, then the less skilled people won't have to sit out every game like can happen in clans.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jane+Oct 7 2003, 03:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jane @ Oct 7 2003, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Good idea, then the less skilled people won't have to sit out every game like can happen in clans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If that were the case, Cole would never play.
But honestly, right now our biggest issue is getting a website up. Currently optikal is working on it, but I'm sure he would/could use some help. If you can help with graphics or anything web related, please contact me in IRC under NSD|Diskord.
Only thing i'd have to comment on is in your FAQ section of the site, it says no trading, i don't see why. It would add an interesting element to the league as well as giving leaders an option to remove players that don't fit in quite as well to there team as they would to another.
Trading would introduce an interesting dynamic. However that is a feature of an organized league with a well established player base. I think it would be too much to introduce trading right away. In the future, definately.
On paper this idea is cool beyond words. I hope it lives up to its potential!
Oh, and comparing this league to the ones that have been tried in other mods(DoD, CS) might not be an accurate predictor. I have been active in CS and DoD, and been in several clans, but never have I seen a community like NS has. I love you guys.....*sniff*
If a league like this will work at all, it will work here.
I was going to say more or less exactly what hawthorne said, the NFL imo has the most interesting and effective league model of any sports league right now.
At this early stage it would be alot of work to come up with ratings for use in a "salary cap" type system. However, how many things are there worth doing that are NOT alot of work? And since its just getting started you could come up with some sort of quick and dirty method of generating a starting point for ratings. Like maybe on the website a list of all the players, and everyone can go rate who they know, and once the league gets started the rating system gets taken over by a more select commitee.
an easy way to prevent players being exluded: The coach/commander/leader of the team picks who will play, but have a league rule that no player can be sat out more than 1 match out of 5 unless by choice(adjust numbers to work well with however the scheduling is set up). I think any kind of first come first serve sign up system would be complete crap.
This is an interesting Idea, but if it is just going to be random teams and random matches I could get that playing my favorite public server like I always do, If you try to avoid developing a complete league model "because its alot of work" then it is doomed to fail before you even started.
You don't want trading be cause this is NOT a professional league, this is the internet, you don't want team stacking, and you don't want people quitting because they don't stand a chance against stacked teams. Features shouldn't be added "for fun," but in order to promote the success of the league.
I don't think 8 people p/ team is gonna cut it (you said this on irc the other day me thinks). 8 people hardly ever cuts it for a semi-dedicated clan, but with this league you're gonna have tons of inactives or those who don't realize how much work goes into team play. 14 or so might be around "barely enough" but more then that should cut it.
Comments
Realistically, this is a good idea, but its going to take assloads of work on the part of many people. From getting the whole damn thing started to drafting new people, to settling disputes.
My suggestions
- go for it 100% or don't even bother
- don't trust people to make "fair and decent decisions," force them to follow a system.
- your going to need more than 6 on a team, because how the hell are you going to make these people show up for events? Something you have to figure out.
IE. One guy doesn't show, and the rest suffer because of it and can't punish him.
ahh, 5th grade kickball memories <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Good Point.
I'm in.
By all means, get as many people as you want, everyone that is planning this event (myself included) believe that we should have like a 7 pubber : 1 clanner ratio per team, so we really need a lot of people to participate.
First SNipermarine would have to be a team leader, and then he would have to choose you.
You must make yourself appealing to him.
haha
i nominate STEAMED for captian
A suggestion or a change to the system, if a team or team captain/leader wishes to have his clan or friends on their team they are handicapped, like if you have two clan members you have to win by a bigger margin or for a set time the better members are not allowed to join the game until a time, this then would make for penalties for choosing the best players, if the teams turn out to have the same number of good players between them then this penalty system doesn't apply.
By now the clans have a good knowledge of who else is good so if a team stacked themselves they would be heavily handicapped, imagine 6 clan members in a team, their handicap, they start with the leader and two new players for ten minutes then one clan member comes in, five minutes later two clanners, then five later the last two members, you stack your team you have to wait twenty five of thirty minutes before you have a full team so you can lose by being greedy.
The smartest captain/leader picks newbie people and spends time training them and possibly ends up with new clan members for the next season or brings their standard up to a very high level so they are good clan material.
As I think everyone knows you get better quicker playing with skilled players. If my idea is crazy I'm sorry, I've never played in a clan.
I must warn you though, I've seen this fail in the dod community as well. It *will* fail, unless you get people to be very very dedicated. Also, team-hopping/just dropping out will be an issue.
- everyone plays a role
- if there is a dominant player, and no one can match up to him, that team (with decent teamwork) wins
example: randy moss catching long bombs in the endzone, constantly
anyways, there's some other comparisons, but that's for another thread. point being
why not organize NS:Draft like an NFL league
With a starting roster, second, third strings
That way, if some of the first stringers dont' show, second string would get to play, etc.
Team depth would be a strong consideration for the drafters, drafting for specialized roles (gorge, shotgunners, etc) would also slip in as well.
Scheduling could be the same too, practices during 5 days out of the week, with a day for all the games, and then a "monday night" for the feature game. This would more give it the feel of the team that practices the most and works together the best has the better chance on judgement day to win.
Also, whoever you're drafted by has exclusive "rights" to your WONiD.
- you can't play for other teams while you're on a team
- if you drop from your team, you have to sit out for "x" amount of weeks
- trades could happen with this
- salary caps could still be measured with the aforementioned 'point' system.
- rosters must be maintained at a minimum number (14?)
But yeah, I figure the NFL model is as good of a place as any to start giving concrete structure to the league; that is if you guys haven't figured one out already.
-hawthorne
Good idea, then the less skilled people won't have to sit out every game like can happen in clans.
If that were the case, Cole would never play.
But honestly, right now our biggest issue is getting a website up. Currently optikal is working on it, but I'm sure he would/could use some help. If you can help with graphics or anything web related, please contact me in IRC under NSD|Diskord.
On paper this idea is cool beyond words. I hope it lives up to its potential!
Oh, and comparing this league to the ones that have been tried in other mods(DoD, CS) might not be an accurate predictor. I have been active in CS and DoD, and been in several clans, but never have I seen a community like NS has. I love you guys.....*sniff*
If a league like this will work at all, it will work here.
At this early stage it would be alot of work to come up with ratings for use in a "salary cap" type system. However, how many things are there worth doing that are NOT alot of work? And since its just getting started you could come up with some sort of quick and dirty method of generating a starting point for ratings. Like maybe on the website a list of all the players, and everyone can go rate who they know, and once the league gets started the rating system gets taken over by a more select commitee.
an easy way to prevent players being exluded:
The coach/commander/leader of the team picks who will play, but have a league rule that no player can be sat out more than 1 match out of 5 unless by choice(adjust numbers to work well with however the scheduling is set up). I think any kind of first come first serve sign up system would be complete crap.
This is an interesting Idea, but if it is just going to be random teams and random matches I could get that playing my favorite public server like I always do, If you try to avoid developing a complete league model "because its alot of work" then it is doomed to fail before you even started.
I don't think 8 people p/ team is gonna cut it (you said this on irc the other day me thinks). 8 people hardly ever cuts it for a semi-dedicated clan, but with this league you're gonna have tons of inactives or those who don't realize how much work goes into team play. 14 or so might be around "barely enough" but more then that should cut it.
No need, look who got us a stickied topic <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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