The Hedonistic Imperative
Melatonin
Babbler Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14551Members, Constellation
Babbler Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14551Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">be forwarned</div> the future is here!
pleasure for everyone!
<a href='http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm' target='_blank'>clicky clicky for much reading</a>
for those who dont understand how links work... heres an extract
"The Hedonistic Imperative outlines how nanotechnology and genetic engineering will eliminate aversive experience from the living world. Over the next thousand years or so, the biological substrates of suffering will be eradicated completely. "Physical" and "mental" pain alike are destined to disappear into evolutionary history. The biochemistry of everyday discontents will be genetically phased out too. Malaise will be replaced by the biochemistry of bliss. Matter and energy will be sculpted into life-loving super-beings animated by gradients of well-being. The states of mind of our descendants are likely to be incomprehensibly diverse by comparison with today. Yet all will share at least one common feature: a sublime and all-pervasive happiness"
well, I just found this and thought it might make a good topic for debate.
*attack this from whatever viewpoint you want.*
and everyone please be civil <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
heres a few to get us started.
"is it morally right to alter the mental make-up of new generations, even if we have the intent of making them incapable of feeling anything other than positive emotions?!"
"is this comparable to man playing God?"
"does anyone else find the notion of 'short circuiting' the dopamine system to produce endless pleasure kinda creepy?!"
pleasure for everyone!
<a href='http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm' target='_blank'>clicky clicky for much reading</a>
for those who dont understand how links work... heres an extract
"The Hedonistic Imperative outlines how nanotechnology and genetic engineering will eliminate aversive experience from the living world. Over the next thousand years or so, the biological substrates of suffering will be eradicated completely. "Physical" and "mental" pain alike are destined to disappear into evolutionary history. The biochemistry of everyday discontents will be genetically phased out too. Malaise will be replaced by the biochemistry of bliss. Matter and energy will be sculpted into life-loving super-beings animated by gradients of well-being. The states of mind of our descendants are likely to be incomprehensibly diverse by comparison with today. Yet all will share at least one common feature: a sublime and all-pervasive happiness"
well, I just found this and thought it might make a good topic for debate.
*attack this from whatever viewpoint you want.*
and everyone please be civil <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
heres a few to get us started.
"is it morally right to alter the mental make-up of new generations, even if we have the intent of making them incapable of feeling anything other than positive emotions?!"
"is this comparable to man playing God?"
"does anyone else find the notion of 'short circuiting' the dopamine system to produce endless pleasure kinda creepy?!"
Comments
We would live in a society like in Equilibrium.
Of course if we could place a limit on the overload, akin to a biological circuit breaker, it could be an advantage, as we could function with more serious injuries and not be blinded by the pain at the same time. But if the limit is set too low, or we are unable to recognize when the limit has been passed, it will become a dangerous tool. Unconscious of the extent of the censored pain we might push ourselves too far and cause more damage than would be caused with the current neurological setup.
Mental pain, on the other hand, is a completely different issue. Pleasure chemicals are the realm of physical pain and thus can be controlled as such. However, mental pain, meaning the pain a consciousness can cause within itself independent of the structure which it exits, can not be controlled by physical manipulation. It can of course be overshadowed by large doses of pleasure chemicals, but as long as the consciousness functions it will can cause pain or pleasure which is independent of the physical system. Unlike physical pain, mental pain is created solely by the consciousness in which it exists. One person may break down emotionally upon the death of a relative while another may kill hundreds without a shred of mental pain. Many people attribute this to "violence genes" or some other inherent attributes. However, as long as the organ where a consciousness lies is fully functional and has sufficient capacity, the possibilities for how it functions are immense. Thus, the existance and magnitude of mental pain is governed by how a consciousness is formed and how it evolves itself.
Thus, physical pain can be controlled by chemicals but mental pain can only be prevented by the consciousness learning to avoid causing the pain upon itself.
Its not going to work without some serious brain surgery
God killed dinosaurs after however million years they lived.
God might kill humans after some time, but right now, people are trying to change that. Hmm?
God killed dinosaurs after however million years they lived.
God might kill humans after some time, but right now, people are trying to change that. Hmm?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't troll. If you arent trolling, then get a clue or provide some evidence instead of wasting our time.
Actually I agree with Legion on this, Pain is important. Pain, any type, molds character.
Ok, for starters due to the speculative nature of this topic i'd like to mention again that everyone has right to their subjective opinion, whatever it is.
Talking about a hedonistic future due to nanotechnology and whatnot. I beleive the possiblity may very well exist someday. but i don't think it will hold any permanency in our world. If you look at living and non-living organisms (I.E. Humans, viruses, etc) All have an elastic ability to adapt to their surroundings and environment, some are more adaptive than others. the HIV virus is very adaptive and mutative, it changes its viral structure at very quick pace which is why we haven't been able to eradicate it yet. Humans don't adapt nearly as fast as viruses when it comes to their biology, they do change, but not nearly as much. Instead humans adapt with innovation and using what is around them, in our case "Technology" has a major part in our adaptablitiy with our world around us and each other. Alot of people don't look at it like this.
Now my whole point with talking about adaptablity deals with our constant environment around us, yes? And if we have such as a future without pain, or other parts of our beings that have existed due to eons of biological adaptatation and evolution, our bodies may not function in any kind of a operational way. Such as if you took out 1/5th of all your windows system files and still expeted your computer to run smoothely
2nd with such a hedonistic environment, as with drugs, the body gets used to the amounts of dopeameine that get released and the same "high" as the first time is never attainable again, if it were, we wouldn't have such things as accidental OD's. And if we tried to live in an environment with constant pleasure or otherwise it would eventually become normal and we could no longer differentiate between pleasure an otherwise. So the effect would be reverse, the norm we were used to would be pleasure and anything else would become "pain" or "undesireable" And we could never go back to a life that we were used to.
I could speculate on this for paragraphs with different ideas. but for now i'm just gonna list these two.
tell me what you think
Anyway, that aside, I think altering the genetic code of future generations is wrong, because you are forcing a decision onto them. This would totally invalidate the concept of human freedom of expression, and choice, because their choices would be made for them before they were born. I mean, even the choice of being born male or female can be changed later in life... but not your entire genetic code.
While I don't see it as "playing God" or anything like that, it takes away from the experience of life - again, humans define their existence through suffering. One must suffer to attain knowledge. With no pain we will see an entirely boring existence.
Anyway, that aside, I think altering the genetic code of future generations is wrong, because you are forcing a decision onto them. This would totally invalidate the concept of human freedom of expression, and choice, because their choices would be made for them before they were born. I mean, even the choice of being born male or female can be changed later in life... but not your entire genetic code.
While I don't see it as "playing God" or anything like that, it takes away from the experience of life - again, humans define their existence through suffering. One must suffer to attain knowledge. With no pain we will see an entirely boring existence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jobs being done by robots has nothing to do with capitalism being reduced in importance. So long as there are conscious beings who wish to be free, there will be a need for capitalism. A common misconception is that capitalism actually existed on a large scale in human society, it never has. What we have is a mixed market but capitalism is what we need to strive for.
Scientifically altering the genetic code of a human egg is no different then letting an egg and sperm create their own combination of genes. I do not see how one is "forcing a decision" while the other is not. Is it better for the child's genes to be unpredictable? I fail to see how this is better than planned genes.
the "future generations" to be altered will never know this, if it happens
but...
<b>how do you appreciate the highs... without the lows?</b>
that's one of the most important things in life 0_o
A feeling will fade away unless it's contrasted with pain/negative feelings
A feeling will fade away unless it's contrasted with pain/negative feelings <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually.. that's a very good point you have, if you're agreeing with me. yeah i think you are.
but yes, you're most likely COMPLETELY correct.
I think if they succed in knocking out our pain registry center, we'll see insanity and depression
We would have to keep putting ourselves in situations which create ever-widening of pleasure-pain cycles in order to experience the depths of both emotions <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually I agree with Legion on this, Pain is important. Pain, any type, molds character. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Contrary to what most people think, Pain is one of the strongest parts of all biological lifeforms.
Without Pain, we would never know our weaknesses, and therefore would be vulerable.
Without darkness how will you know what light is?
pain and pleasure aren't YES and NO
or 1 and -1
you forget that there is neutral contentment, or emptiness... and then pleasure
and then yet greater pleasure.
so it's more like a scale of integers.
I have never broken a bone, I have never been tortured, I have never had a terrible dieasese, or any dieasese for that matter! Yet I am still capable of experiencing very high highs in my life. You only need the lows, not the super lows, to appreciate the highs.