Those Who Have Embraced The Old, And Never Forgot,

Quaunaut · October 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">should move on.</div> I loved 1.04. It was....well, I started playing NS at v1.04. After that, I soon became a regular on the forums around May of 2003 here.

I was onw of the people that couldn't wait for 1.1. It seemed....well, it seemed AMAZING to me. It got renamed to 2.0, and I got it, eventually.

I loved it, just like I thought I would. Its still great, even better than before.

But so many people think the old NS was better. I'd like to know: How? In what way was it better? Post your thoughts, cause I'd like to see, and I bet even Flayra would like to see.

Asal_The_Unforgiving · October 2003

I don't care what changes you make, what you do to it....so long as it is still recognizably NS, I will be out there making a fool of myself

exoity · October 2003

I think it should be 1.04 with just balancing fixing issues and some bug fixes.

Haze · October 2003

Meh? Nothings better, we just havnt played it in a long long time we've missed it. I wanted to get a game together.

Shockeh · October 2003

The only thing I miss was the feeling of 'theirs' and 'ours'.

In 1.04, you knew very quickly which areas were infested by the Kharaa, and which were marine held. You rapidly got a 'front' on which battles were fought, which swayed back & forth. 2.x lost this, in making a more dynamic & rapid gamestyle.

I think a lot of the more strategic players felt this loss, and it's made something die in the feel of NS. I'm not saying NS2.x isn't better, because there were so many improvements made, but I think that aspect was lost during that period.

MrMojo · October 2003

I don't think it was better. It was original, and people always like the nostaligia of the original ( and playing nancy was pretty cool :O )

ZERG · October 2003

I'll list a few things:

- Slower pace, marines didn't have to worry about a fade 5 minutes into the game. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

- Better JPs. To a good marine, the JP changes don't have much of an affect. In 1.0 a lot of people didn't know how to use the JP if their life depended on it. The many nerfs in 2.0 just makes things worse for pub play because of the higher standard to use it properly.

- Marines were easier to play. Marines are much harder to play in 2.0. This is more an issue with pub play. How can you expect near perfect play in pub play all the time. This is with the much easier to play aliens. Playing marines always meant a dismal experience because usually the aliens are llamas and won't end it so you have to leave the server all the time to play a fresh game somewhere else. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

- Skulk/Marine imbalance caused aliens to work as a team better. In 2.0 it is much easier to play as aliens and its a really dull experience to know that you will probably win the round. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> I just don't even try anymore as aliens and still win...

This is just my opinion though. In general, I just think marine play has too high a standard to work for pub play. Now that the newness has worn off the gameplay in 2.0 just feels too stiff (I.E. not fun). I don't play 2.0 as much as I did 1.0. I don't know what exactly is wrong with 2.0, but I sure as heck would love it if aliens didn't get a fade so fast.

CommunistWithAGun · October 2003

It honestly felt a lot more balanced. I played 2.0 hard for a good two months then took a month off because I was pulling my hair out. No more fronts, isolated skirmishes instead, I agree, something felt as if it did die. I love strategy, and as someone else said...I'm going to miss NS, 2.0 was just the last nail in the coffin for me.

LemurZoboomafoo · October 2003

1.02 was the best, no question. To me, 2.0 was just a fix for whatever went wrong as the patches got worse.

lolfighter · October 2003

I like 2.x better than 1.x. The only thing I miss is the frontlines and the slower pace. 2.x gives us a faster pace, but longer games. While marines can finish the game relatively quickly when they are winning (if the hive can't be taken otherwise, simply siege it), a losing marine team can hold out for a significant time when the game is technically over already.
The slower pace of 1.x also made it a little more forgiving. In 2.x, a single mistake can screw you up real good, and a single good offense can win you the game. A game is a delicate balancing act: Once you start losing (falling to one side), it's very hard to make a comeback (regain your balance).
But I like 2.x more than 1.x. There are more "kick(donkey)" things to do, heavies are actually used, jp isn't a game ender, Onos is possible to get BEFORE the game is over, shotgun is better, cloaking is better, Fade is more fun (and actually blinks properly), Lerk is more fun, most things are better. Hey, this is the second major version of NS, give it a chance. It's not even been around for a year, nobody expects it to be perfect yet.

Lucid · October 2003

The game hasn't really changed for me. Only real difference is that you get fades instead of lerks, and winning aliens is a little bit easier than it used to be.

2.0 = 1.04 in my book. Same game.

Supernorn · October 2003

The one thing I miss from 1.04 were the 3-4 hour long Epic battles, where you never quite knew who would win.

slipknotkthx · October 2003

The only thing I really miss is the lerk bite.

Marr · October 2003

Things I don't miss from 1.04:

1. The newb who wouldn't get off gorge, splitting the res intake and postponing the 2nd hive, dooming the alien team to defeat.
2. The gorge who dropped a single sensory chamber before dying
3. The same sensory chamber that wouldn't shut up.
4. Onos that didn't matter. You never really <i>needed</i> one.
5. The mad rush to get a 2nd hive up (for webs and umbra) so a single HMG JP wouldn't destroy your hives.
6. The mad rush to lock down two hives so a single Fade wouldn't destroy your entire base.
7. Painful 1-hour games consisting of 1-hive skulks slowly killing themselves on marine turrets in the other 2 hives, while the marines slowly tech up.
8. Games on Nancy ruined by an HMG JP with a welder, who could fire upon ALL THREE hives from the safety of a vent.
9. Games on Nothing that may as well have consisted of the cargo hive and nothing else.
10. No minimap at all for aliens, and a useless one for marines.

Cabal · October 2003

I miss being able to get jetpacks off of 1 res node before the second hive went up <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

KRagg · October 2003

Like ZERG!! puts it, marines had it a lot easier, but he neglects to mention that aliens was nothing but a string of frustrations.

2.0 fixed a few of the common marine exploits, such as the jp and the sidearm, but for the most part, there wasn't all that much change in their powers. At the same time, they alleviated more or less all of the unnecessary alien frustrations, thus letting aliens focus on other things.

Anyone who prefer marines are likely to want the old situation back, while anyone who prefer aliens certainly do not want to go back to the one gorge-regime.

1.04 was fun, of course, but compared to 2.0x.... I'd take 2.0x anyday. Evolutions <b>and</b> weapons locked to hives, one gorge, sensory being worth about the same as a dead marine, etc... No thanks.

Geronimo · October 2003

I miss when NS was not about 3/3 HA HMG marines vs. 2Hive Onos and Fades...

When LMG+Pistol skills was measured with Carapace skulking...

Now its about who can get max tech first...and thats often quite fast...

MadcapMagician · October 2003

Players who like to play marine miss the old version because they could win so easily.
Players who like to play aliens like the new version (2.0) because they could win so easily.

I think 2.01 is great. Much more fun that 1.04 ever was. In my mind the balance is perfect, or near enough as to make no difference. And there are just so many options, you aren't locked into just 1 strategy if you want a chance of winning. There is also more room for error. In 1.04 if you screwed up, thats it, game over, the other side had the upper hand before you could recover.

1.04 was fun, but not nearly as fun as 2.01

Xzilen · October 2003

2.0 is by far better in my opinion.

ssjyoda · October 2003

Only thing I miss are the long battles and frontlines. It left the question of who will win unanswered until the last 5 minutes of the game. Not the first 5.

MagiTek · October 2003

Nostalgia has clouded people's eyes. NS 2.01 is a far better game. The "front line" feeling and multi-hour standoffs were completely due to 2nd hive acid rocket and the lack of onos.

The_Real_Quasar · October 2003

I don't really miss 1.04 all that much. I guess it was just the fact that it got so boring with the constant JP HMG rushes...
2.0x > 1.0x.

eaglec · October 2003

2. is better than 1. but 1. was more fun. The feeling of scale, drama and much of the atmosphere seems to have gone and been replaced by the quick game. The biggest problem, the hit boxes , remains and much of the planning and strategy has been replaced by the need for fps skills. 2.01 does feel more balanced, it's still hopelessly imbalanced in the aliens favour when you look at the cold statistics but they dont matter. It's the feel that counts. At the moment the marines get too easily pinned in base by 1 or 2 combat god aliens using the 120mph chainsaw of death (flying fade) or early onos trick.

So what would I change in 2.0 to make 2.1 more fun?
1. Make JP's more fun. Perhaps have them cost 35 or be unable to carry heavy weapons but make them capable of some form of flight again. Also make flying JP's immne from stomp so JP is a valid onos counter.
2. Increase the weapon priming time or addrenaline use on blink so indefinate use of blink/slash/blink/slash/blink/slash is no longer an option.
3. Fix the bloody lerk hitbox. It has been argued it's not the hit box its the hull. Well I dont care what the **** it is so long as when bullets hit the lerk it dies and it stops disapearing into the ceilings.
4. Stop nerfing towers and turrets. Turrets and OC's can no longer effectively slow the opposition. Specifically turrets fall in seconds to onos or 2 hive gorge attacks now. However much res is wasted.

have to go to work now, might pick this up later,

Exitus · October 2003

2.x is better but...

Gorge 1.x vs gorge 2.x .... 1.x gorge and res stack to gorges is better. No onos saving to skrew up the game.... so just fix the resflow to 50% gorges and rest to skulks and other and no more those f... onos lamers... This is why prefer SC---> to get other gorges--> get the 2. hive for DC...

ZdrozZ · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Oct 22 2003, 07:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The slower pace of 1.x also made it a little more forgiving. In 2.x, a single mistake can screw you up real good, and a single good offense can win you the game.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
^^

Lucid · October 2003

who said anything about not doing jp/hmg rushes anymore :/

Thief · October 2003

I have a feeling half the people that posted in this thread did not even play <1.04

Join the movement <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=50595&' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=5&t=50595&</a>

Retales · October 2003

1.04 was better than 2.0 because of the balance. Still I think that 1.04 with a few little changes would have made it better. In 1.04 marines won more than 50% of the time. Now in 2.0 aliens win about 80% of the time (note: I play on pubs). So 1.04 was much closer to a perfect balance than 2.0 is. Now that I've gotten over my anger towards 2.0 by noticing that it will be balanced, I see 2.0 as playable as 1.04 (but not as balanced!).

leek · October 2003

2.0 is MUCH BETTER and by a long way.

in agmes where both teams have had good players the games have been back and forth aliens get 3 hives marines come back and take 1 hive down sometimes 2, then aliens come back again and get all 3 hives. and then its swung wither way in some games marine vicotry or alien victory.

but one thing remains exactly the same as 1.0x if one team sux and 1 team is good then its completley a 1 sided victory.

one thing i would love to see is 2 different versions of each map 1 with Marine team alien team join doors . and anotehr version with only random which would help with stacking that happens in all pubs. it ruins about 4 out of 5 games the team stacking that goes on.

TheWizard · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Oct 18 2003, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The only thing I miss was the feeling of 'theirs' and 'ours'.

In 1.04, you knew very quickly which areas were infested by the Kharaa, and which were marine held. You rapidly got a 'front' on which battles were fought, which swayed back & forth. 2.x lost this, in making a more dynamic & rapid gamestyle.

I think a lot of the more strategic players felt this loss, and it's made something die in the feel of NS. I'm not saying NS2.x isn't better, because there were so many improvements made, but I think that aspect was lost during that period.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yeah, I do miss the fronts. Now it seems that marines can pop up everywhere.

Though how much this has to do with 2.0 or changing tactics I am not sure.

MagiTek · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Thief- @ Oct 23 2003, 01:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I have a feeling half the people that posted in this thread did not even play <1.04

Join the movement <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=50595&' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=5&t=50595&</a>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
It's really so hard for you to believe that people prefer 2.0x? There are a lot of servers out there where teamwork is common, Thief. As a person who greatly enjoys the teamplay aspect of NS, it's absolutely mind-boggling that someone would ask the developer to dumb down the game for those who don't know how to play. Intuitiveness and ease of learning is one thing, but to actually devolve the gameplay so that it requires less teamwork? My God, man.

You can only balance the game, you can't balance the players.

Those Who Have Embraced The Old, And Never Forgot,

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