Fairness In Games
Lord_Of_The_Pings
Join Date: 2003-02-27 Member: 14079Members
Join Date: 2003-02-27 Member: 14079Members
<div class="IPBDescription">something for new and old.</div> Hello felllow NS players:
As many of you know NS is a team based game,players on two separate teams work together to defeat the other team.In order to keep the gameplay value at its best, these teams should be as balanced and as fair as possible.
Well "ns" some of you may say, but listen to me for a few minutes.
There has been a growing problem that I hve noticed, Ive seen it spread like a cancer across many servers of which the names I shall not mention.
"What is this sickness???" you may ask.
The sickness is called unfairness.
"bs" some of you may reply, but it is true, the main game killer so far is not cheating or exploiting, but deliberate or indeliberate F4'ing(entering the readyroom) and the imblalancing of games.
"But I always join the team with fewest players" you may say.
This may be, but I have noticed a large ammount of players, both new and mildly experienced quitting games to enter the ready room as soon as the tides of battle and I have also noticed many joining the team which was already bigger(number wise) than the other.
When I and some other people on the team with less players asked for some of them to join our side in order to balance the sides equally, some replied: "but they were like this from the beggining of the game", while others replied with a simple "no".
This leads me to believe that some people do not wish to play fair games.
If this is so then why do they play NS???
Now as to the other problem plaguing NS, namely "Quitting" as its known by many online players.
Just dont do it.
Its not funny, its not cool and it just severely annoys other people who want to have a fun game( even if they are on the losing side).
"So what does this mean??" you may ask yourself
It means that you as a (hopefully) good minded player should see making games fair your duty.
If you are in a game and see a team imbalance, then change top that team if you can, or ask another player to do so if you are in a position of importance(the commanders position for example)
Although if you join a server which has teambalancing switched to on, then you neednt worry about imbalancing.
Whereas when joining a server with no teambalancing, then you should as a (hopefully) dedicated member of the NS and Half-Life community do your best to keep things balanced and fair.
I hope that you new(or semi new) players to NS will keep this in mind the next time you join a server.
I wish you all a fun and satisfying playing experience!!!
feel free to post any comments.
As many of you know NS is a team based game,players on two separate teams work together to defeat the other team.In order to keep the gameplay value at its best, these teams should be as balanced and as fair as possible.
Well "ns" some of you may say, but listen to me for a few minutes.
There has been a growing problem that I hve noticed, Ive seen it spread like a cancer across many servers of which the names I shall not mention.
"What is this sickness???" you may ask.
The sickness is called unfairness.
"bs" some of you may reply, but it is true, the main game killer so far is not cheating or exploiting, but deliberate or indeliberate F4'ing(entering the readyroom) and the imblalancing of games.
"But I always join the team with fewest players" you may say.
This may be, but I have noticed a large ammount of players, both new and mildly experienced quitting games to enter the ready room as soon as the tides of battle and I have also noticed many joining the team which was already bigger(number wise) than the other.
When I and some other people on the team with less players asked for some of them to join our side in order to balance the sides equally, some replied: "but they were like this from the beggining of the game", while others replied with a simple "no".
This leads me to believe that some people do not wish to play fair games.
If this is so then why do they play NS???
Now as to the other problem plaguing NS, namely "Quitting" as its known by many online players.
Just dont do it.
Its not funny, its not cool and it just severely annoys other people who want to have a fun game( even if they are on the losing side).
"So what does this mean??" you may ask yourself
It means that you as a (hopefully) good minded player should see making games fair your duty.
If you are in a game and see a team imbalance, then change top that team if you can, or ask another player to do so if you are in a position of importance(the commanders position for example)
Although if you join a server which has teambalancing switched to on, then you neednt worry about imbalancing.
Whereas when joining a server with no teambalancing, then you should as a (hopefully) dedicated member of the NS and Half-Life community do your best to keep things balanced and fair.
I hope that you new(or semi new) players to NS will keep this in mind the next time you join a server.
I wish you all a fun and satisfying playing experience!!!
feel free to post any comments.
Comments
. . .
This may be, but I have noticed a large ammount of players, both new and mildly experienced quitting games to enter the ready room as soon as the tides of battle and I have also noticed many joining the team which was already bigger(number wise) than the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, Yes I have noticed this as well.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lord of the Pings+ Oct 19 2003, 10:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lord of the Pings @ Oct 19 2003, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"But I always join the team with fewest players" you may say.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I do! To my regret however, as it undoubtedly puts me on the losing team, generally speaking. Oh well.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lord of the Pings+ Oct 19 2003, 10:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lord of the Pings @ Oct 19 2003, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> while others replied with a simple "no".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Responses like that drive me insane. I would rant, but then again its better that I don't...
If im on a team, winning or loosing, and its even at the start of the game, I won't switch teams when it becomes unfair. If I just joined the game, I will, but thats different. Im not going to leave my team just because the other team has quitters. Im sure others feel the same way.
NS suffers from "slippery slope" syndrome quite badly, often.
Oh yeah Ballisto, No one plays to lose, you're right.
Its good to know Im not the only one seeing this <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "But I always join the team with fewest players" you may say.
his may be, but I have noticed a large ammount of players, both new and mildly experienced quitting games to enter the ready room as soon as the tides of battle and I have also noticed many joining the team which was already bigger (number wise) than the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's what i don't understand because this s****.
when teams are already balanced (per number) i join the team with the lower score, because this will increase the whole game quality.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When I and some other people on the team with less players asked for some of them to join our side in order to balance the sides equally, some replied: "but they were like this from the beggining of the game", while others replied with a simple "no".....
If you are in a game and see a team imbalance, then change top that team if you can, or ask another player to do so if you are in a position of importance(the commanders position for example)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
mmh i see a problem (for me): while gaming i sometimes don't read the messages - so i won't recognize this. i will look more carefully for this next time ingame (i try/swear <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now as to the other problem plaguing NS, namely "Quitting" as its known by many online players.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sometimes we did F4ing because of lack of any chance to win a game... but we decided to do this togehter, the whole team. that is ok for me... but when half of the team "vanishes" away that's *not funny*.
there were some rounds which lasted more than 1 hour. some of these rounds my team lost but it didn't matter - because it was tons of fun.
so have fun and try to keep the game balanced - it is much better <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
you are right: you can't <b>force</b> people's way of thinking. but you can make people more sensitive to this problem - some - perhaps.... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
i installed the oddman-plugin and now there is no way they can get their unfair teams <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
so the marines will always have as many or 1 more player then the aliens unless ppl quit...
viva la admin <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
sometimes you have to force ppl to their luck
It's like the rest of society. A government can have all the rules it wants, but if the people within just don't function well, it becomes unstable.
You can always try and fix more defined variables like the guns in the game, the auto-team balancing, etc., but unfortunately, people are just too varying and vast in behavior to ever catch them all <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's like the rest of society. A government can have all the rules it wants, but if the people within just don't function well, it becomes unstable.
You can always try and fix more defined variables like the guns in the game, the auto-team balancing, etc., but unfortunately, people are just too varying and vast in behavior to ever catch them all <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very well thought out, a good example for this would be RTCW:ET, which has almost no communication* on public servers and way too many teamkillers.
Anyway I'm glad this many of you posted, but I hope that twice as many new players read this thread, as it is intended to help new teamplayers(in any game, although in this case NS)
*This may be due to the **** HUD and chat nterface.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Couldn't agree more<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - Ghost recon
Anyway the reason I've decided to make this hopefully last post (at least for this thread) is to ask you all to NOT let this thread die out, not to keep my ego happy, but to make sure that every new person to these forums and especially to NS has the chance to inform themselves on the points stated earlier on in this thread.
So if any of you nice and clever moderators would care to make sure this thread doesn't die out I'd be very greatful <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I hope that you new(or semi new) players to NS will keep this in mind the next time you join a server.
I wish you all a fun and satisfying playing experience!!!
feel free to post any comments.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My 2 cents..
If I'm outfitted with HA and the aliens are down to one hive and 3 people on their team leave....
I'm not switching teams this round is almost over...
However if it's game start, I'll be the first one to switch.....
What I can't stand is mid-game when teams are 9-7 or 8-6 and people start freaking out about teams (esp if its marines having 8).. Another person will probably join the game in a min or two anyway and it won't matter.
Now in games where it's a 3 person difference, I see the point... but esp. if marines have more players, spend less time trying to find excuses for why you aren't winning and play the game...
If I join the server and teams are even.. I'm going marines EVERY TIME... why?? They lose a player in the comm so effectively it's 1 extra alien before I join...
As for F4'ing.. If the game is going no where, (marine last stand, or spawn camping) I'm f4ing and encouraging others to as well..
Why?? I have a limited amount of time during my life to play games and hate sitting wasting that time on a situation that's not going to be resolved... So I f4, and others do as well to start a fresh round...
I'm sorry, but 20 minute standoffs at end game (since often aliens can't co-ordinate on pubs enough to take out a well placed marine start) is a waste of everyone's time.....
Nice topic though...
Z
I have noticed this as well, and it is really bothersome trying to figure out whether teams are unbalanced enough to warrant a switchover.
Some people just say, make teams as even as possible all the time. And usually I go with that too, but maybe we need a system for more vague situations like this one. Something we can fall back on, and if it is posted in the forums, it is bound to spread, as many things have.
So should we have a definitive ruling on the mid-game uneven teams problem? I propose it be entirely dependant on <b>which</b> race needs players, and how many players they need. Since marines have a -1 player handicap thanks to the commander position, losing 2 players might be more serious to them then it would be for kharaa. However <i>I</i> play on 26 player servers... A player amount that is bent in favor of marines, even if they are not as communicative as can be.
So what do you think the ruling should be on this?
Perhaps if it is a difference of 3 players or more on the Kharaa side, then someone should switch? If it is 2 players on the marine team, then someone should switch? I am not sure, my experience is limited, so more opinions are necessary.
Anyway, I have a problem similar to this with Halo. Every game is three good players on a big TV against three other people on a tiny TV. Those three good players always win, usually by a lot. We have almost no chance to **** (heehee) the game away, and they never want to break up their team.
What's been happening for the past 3 weeks or so is that Vets and Regs seem to stack aliens and new guys either enjoy marines due to it being easy or have no other choice being to slow running to the aliens when the others do the jointeamtwo in console.
I've been going marines just to even the teams *and because i'm too slow*, but these guys can absolutly kick my arse single handedly and when they're all together they rip the entire marines base every rush they have. So instead of fighting us they have *clan fun*. Where they decide not to kill our ip so that they can create the biggest lame outside out base. These games.... have been annoying me badly.
I think f4 is warrented here, not for the clan stack, but when the marines have no chance and the aliens are just mucking around. An admin would be appreciated, but he seems to enjoy being the biggest rez whoar i have every met, being afk every round till he gets 100 rez to go onos. He does nothing.
torney mode ones and public ones.
the tourney mode oens would be like the ns maps we use now.
the public ones would only have a random team door.
torney mode ones and public ones.
the tourney mode oens would be like the ns maps we use now.
the public ones would only have a random team door. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can get plugins that auto-random everyone <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
why do alot of servers allow 2 extra members to join a team. because it completley unbalances the teams.
imagine its a 16 players server, sides are 8 v 7 a new player joins the server and in my experiance 9/10 times he joins the team with 8 players!! then of course i point out hes just joined the team with the most players already and 9/10 time i get back "SUYF noob" i mean WTH!