Next Generation Communism
CommunistWithAGun
Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">50+ Years in the future</div> Is it the only solution? With the technology we have it certainly seems so. The fakers of China and the failed USSR are a blemish on this great theory. They're like the llama's of the idea. As technology proceeds to become even more and more important leaving the difference between prole and capitalist slimmer and slimmer, what do YOU think?
I think the best way to do things hasn't yet been created. However humanity cannot remain to have a primitive economic, dictator like government for much longer. We are an advanced, in retrospect, race, and the law of the jungle shouldn't be what rules us.
Thoughts? Comments? Polite argument?
NO RELIGION PLEASE KTHXBAI
I think the best way to do things hasn't yet been created. However humanity cannot remain to have a primitive economic, dictator like government for much longer. We are an advanced, in retrospect, race, and the law of the jungle shouldn't be what rules us.
Thoughts? Comments? Polite argument?
NO RELIGION PLEASE KTHXBAI
Comments
I personally think the only way the human race will ever be able to unite completely and utterly would be that we face an external threat and everyone sacrifices, regardless of race, creed or place of origin.
This is true, however the leadership role was expected to fade out when the country became independant of a leader.
I don't think communism is possible for the same reasons communism wasn't possible in Russia and China. Nobody wants to be forced to do something, and not even gain benefits for working hard at it. If communism can work around this and allow people to pick their own jobs, keep their own money, and keep what they earn, then.. oops, I guess that's capitalism, not communism. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
(William Gibson, Pattern Recognition)
I am convinced that a form of milder capitalism (possibly a new version of Ludwig Erhards social capitalism) is the best economic system humanity in its current stage of social development can hope for. The in my opinion optimal position for contemporary and future communists is thus not the position of the governor - in accordance with Marx' idea of the evolutionary leap into the communistic society, no truly communistic governmental system has ever been laid out - but instead the position of the 'loyal opposition' groups like Attac adopt: It is impossible for capitalism to stay uncorrupted if the system isn't watched closely by a group distrustful to every move within it. In this regard, I consider contemporary communism invaluable.
If I recall correctly, my boy Reagan tossed it in the dustbin of history. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Communism has a flawed view of human nature. People are not altruistic enough for communism to work. People, by nature, always put themselves and their interests first. As soon as someone gets any power, they'll try to use it for their own benefit. Sure, there might be a few who attempt to do whats right for everyone, but somewhere along the line, it will be corrupted.
If its not human nature, then why as every human society placed self-sacrafice for a greater goal (friend, an ideal, etc) at the height of noble actions?
Communists are amusing. They attack those in the private sector for being selfish and uncaring. Politicans in democracies are selfish and abusing the system.
Why would that change under communism?
EDIT
I misspelled the Great One's name.
If I recall correctly, my boy Reagan tossed it in the dustbin of history. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Communism has a flawed view of human nature. People are not altruistic enough for communism to work. People, by nature, always put themselves and their interests first. As soon as someone gets any power, they'll try to use it for their own benefit. Sure, there might be a few who attempt to do whats right for everyone, but somewhere along the line, it will be corrupted.
If its not human nature, then why as every human society placed self-sacrafice for a greater goal (friend, an ideal, etc) at the height of noble actions?
Communists are amusing. They attack those in the private sector for being selfish and uncaring. Politicans in democracies are selfish and abusing the system.
Why would that change under communism?
EDIT
I misspelled the Great One's name. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't throw something away that was never there in the first place. Go reagan, your such an economist <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If I recall correctly, my boy Reagan tossed it in the dustbin of history. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Communism has a flawed view of human nature. People are not altruistic enough for communism to work. People, by nature, always put themselves and their interests first. As soon as someone gets any power, they'll try to use it for their own benefit. Sure, there might be a few who attempt to do whats right for everyone, but somewhere along the line, it will be corrupted.
If its not human nature, then why as every human society placed self-sacrafice for a greater goal (friend, an ideal, etc) at the height of noble actions?
Communists are amusing. They attack those in the private sector for being selfish and uncaring. Politicans in democracies are selfish and abusing the system.
Why would that change under communism?
EDIT
I misspelled the Great One's name. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely. Communism at its heart has the idea that everyone is good and will work towards a goal selflessly - fat chance. And even then I am a little afraid of socialists. I useda think you guys were happy people who daydreamed about a gaia style of goverment/living, and then I read "The Socialist Worker's" aims, and they were talking about raising a militia, overthrowing the current system etc etc.
That worries me. And plz, tell me if "The Socialist Worker" are just mavericks - not a good representation of communists as a whole.
greed it a thing you will never be able to eliminate.
It's because the most common greed is simply to be better/richer/whatever than other people.
Some people are happy with the things they have... most wich they had more... and there are always people who want everything.
You cannot eliminate that... it's only natural to fight for being the leader of the pack.
Onto what, our Semi-captialist economy? Its a joke, all of a nations problems, come from one way or another its economy. I'm too tired to give a 3 page essay on economics and sociology, but If i must I will...
greed it a thing you will never be able to eliminate.
It's because the most common greed is simply to be better/richer/whatever than other people.
Some people are happy with the things they have... most wich they had more... and there are always people who want everything.
You cannot eliminate that... it's only natural to fight for being the leader of the pack. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, thats for you to think. I am developping a plan, and have been for three years so far, and I won't stop till its working.
I don't see Communism being the actual mechanism. I think that a limited socialism is going to be the future. Communism demands that people give a damn about each other willingly. That's just not going to happen. If you try to force it upon people at gunpoint, then the altruism that it requires will be voided. I think that Marx wasn't objective enough for a really good theory, but I still find it interesting even if I disagree with him.
CWAG,
If you already have that essay written, PM it to me. I'm not a classically trained sociologist, but I do find sociology interesting.
If this plan involves nanites and spreading them throughout the human population then we should combine efforts <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The biggest problem with capitalism also happens to be its greatest strength: It harnesses the power of one of humanities worst traits. We could just as easily create a society based on hate and it would probably work (in so far as capitalism works, it hasn't been around all that long). Not that socialism seems to work a whole lot better in most cases, but it does seem to me to be a step in the right direction.
amen.
although i would love to see a real communist country ;p
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The biggest problem with capitalism also happens to be its greatest strength: It harnesses the power of one of humanities worst traits.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get your heads out of your **** (bodily orifices) people. The most evil and disgusting misconception commonly believed is that "altruism" is good and that humans are "corrupt" due to their selfishness. Every single piece of civilization exists due to selfishness. The desire to improve one's life is the only driving force of progress. Selfishness is the good while altruism is a banner waved by socialists who's only objective is to enslave the selfish people who produce.
True capitalism (or Laissez-Faire Capitalism as it is often called) is the only system that does not enslave those within it. Capitalism has never existed on a country wide scale in the history of humanity. What countries like the US currently have is a socialist system where the government tells the people what to do with their earnings and how to live their lives. If you think about it, we aren't that far away from communism as is often percieved.
It really quite simple. Either you're on the socialist side, telling us that we must be slaves to our neighbours, or you're on the individualist side, acknowledging self-responsibility and never wanting another man to be your slave nor to be the slave of another.
For a government to be communist, it has to have this quality:
Communsm would be a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
Agreed?
if it was communist, we wouldn't have gazillionaires like Bill Gates. Everything would be state-run.
See that computer your using? If it was a communist country, everyone else would have 1, which is not the case in the US.
The USG simply collects some money for the basic services it provides, taxes, and it most certainly doesn't tell us how we are to spend our money, otherwise people wouldn't buy plots of the moon.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The biggest problem with capitalism also happens to be its greatest strength: It harnesses the power of one of humanities worst traits.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get your heads out of your **** (bodily orifices) people. The most evil and disgusting misconception commonly believed is that "altruism" is good and that humans are "corrupt" due to their selfishness. Every single piece of civilization exists due to selfishness. The desire to improve one's life is the only driving force of progress. Selfishness is the good while altruism is a banner waved by socialists who's only objective is to enslave the selfish people who produce.
True capitalism (or Laissez-Faire Capitalism as it is often called) is the only system that does not enslave those within it. Capitalism has never existed on a country wide scale in the history of humanity. What countries like the US currently have is a socialist system where the government tells the people what to do with their earnings and how to live their lives. If you think about it, we aren't that far away from communism as is often percieved.
It really quite simple. Either you're on the socialist side, telling us that we must be slaves to our neighbours, or you're on the individualist side, acknowledging self-responsibility and never wanting another man to be your slave nor to be the slave of another. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And now you're going to direct us all into the loving arms of Ayn Rand. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
btw, where does open source software fit into that view of the world?
Or has no one merely gotten around to answering him?
The USG collects a large percentage of yearly income as taxes and redistributes it through social programs. I also severely restricts its citizen's lives through corporate, drug, and other lifestyle laws. What the USG does can hardly be called providing "basic services" as it does much more than that. And yes, it does tell you how to spend your money. You can not hire prostitutes or buy cocaine without getting arrested for example.
<!--QuoteBegin--moultano+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And now you're going to direct us all into the loving arms of Ayn Rand.
btw, where does open source software fit into that view of the world?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I prefer people to leave me to live my own life rather than force me to live for them. Open source is not in contradiction with egoism as sometimes it is the most efficient way to accomplish a goal. Would you rather abandon a game development project due to lack of funding, or make it open source and let it succeed? Monetary wealth is one of the rewards an egoist seeks, but it is certainly not the only one.
Or has no one merely gotten around to answering him? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second this motion. The reason no one ever answers it, though, is that they have no answer. Communism in mammals is not something found in nature, because it does not work socially or genetically. Lower animals succeed by both protecting their assets and taking other assets as best they can. The same applies to homo sapien.
So - someone answer us. How do you plan to make Communism work with more than 30 hippies living in a trailer park in SoCal?
Or has no one merely gotten around to answering him? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second this motion. The reason no one ever answers it, though, is that they have no answer. Communism in mammals is not something found in nature, because it does not work socially or genetically. Lower animals succeed by both protecting their assets and taking other assets as best they can. The same applies to homo sapien.
So - someone answer us. How do you plan to make Communism work with more than 30 hippies living in a trailer park in SoCal? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marx's communism, can't and will never work sadly.
I honestly feel the best way to do things hasn't been created yet, or if it has, hasn't been employed. Regretfully, 90% of proclaimed communists just use it as a quick get-to-high-places ticket in poorer nations (China, for example) to get ultimate power, staining what it really is.
I've got a work-around for the human greed, which operates by fulfilling that greed, however I will not divulge it because its my own little secret plan of something much larger:P
At anyrate, old-skool commies are doomed. The next-gen stuff. (Which is what this is supposed to be about) is what Im more interested in.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Me@timeofposting:P
Marx's communism, can't and will never work sadly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Argh I am very tempted to disclose my idea because of this thread now...
That's my answer.