moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Oct 22 2003, 12:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Oct 22 2003, 12:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does CIA need a new finding? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Anyone know how this line is supposed to be read?
<!--QuoteBegin--Spooge+Oct 23 2003, 06:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spooge @ Oct 23 2003, 06:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remember that if you want people to respect your opinion, you'll have to respect theirs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I do. It's when people start attacking me personally that I get upset. I have nothing against differeing opinions, in fact I enjoy the debate. There is at least one individual, however, that seems to have a problem with me personally and looks to provoke a flame war at every turn. All I've tried to do is offer another viewpoint. Sometimes that requires defending myself, unfortunately, since my opinions and beliefs seem to be rarely in the majority.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Leaders are supposed to think a couple of steps ahead. We're making progress but there's room for improvement. It's actually a good series of thoughts. It helps say to the DoD: "Do better or we'll supplement you with a new agency". Prodding the brass is okay. This is an example of clueless media.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Rumsfeld thinks on lots of levels. These questions are entirely appropiate for a leader to ask his subordinates when he is attempting to refine the policy and direction of an action under way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The memo is classic Rumsfeld. He's well known for sending these things out to his staff on a regular basis to stir things up and to get them thinking. He's in charge of an enormous organization known for its inertia and he needs to keep hammering away at people to get it to change direction. This is nothing new except that someone copied it and sent it around to staff to get additional input and it ended up in the newspaper where it was *GASP!* "misrepresented".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This "could" be a positive thing? Do you know anything about the dynamics of leadership in larger organizations? This is ABSOLUTELY positive. This was a "warning order" to be prepared to answer questions at an upcoming meeting. This is exactly what is expected of any CEO of any organization...the ability to look at the "big picture" and ask the hard questions. Typically, you consider "what is the worst case scenario" (we used to call them the "What if the only thing you manufacture was rendered obsolete by a new invention...what would you do?" questions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Eviscerator+Oct 23 2003, 12:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eviscerator @ Oct 23 2003, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only if you believe Islamic terrorists, specifically Al Qaeda, had anything to do with 9/11. There are many people who do not believe Al Qaeda was behind 9/11, and I am one of them. The second part of your statement is really quite scary to me. Especially since we have no clear-cut enemy we're going after. Please, tell me... when will all of this stop? How will we ever know when the "war on terror" has been won? I'm afraid the answer is far too frightening to speak. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then who do you think did it? Huh? What would you call those men from Saudia Araba? Even if and its a big IF Al Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11, the people who did it were not acting on their own, they had funding, and planing. I don't think it matters WHAT terrorist organization did it, it was done, we decided that most evidance pointed to one group, we attacked them. Don't try and justify or take blame off Al Qaeda.
Also the answer is not to "frighting" to speak, it will end when we have killed all the terrorists, plain and simple. We have made a good start, its not going to be a peaceful war or whatever strange things you may think we could do besides fighting. These people don't understand peace, they don't have a government we can talk with, as sad as it is brute force is all we can use to stop them.
look, the point is, its never going to end, its a war which is technically unwinnable. you cant 'defeat terrorism' any more than you can defeat sadness. Its an absurd reason for countless unjust wars.
Terrorism can be defeated. Its called Stablity, look at Kuwait, a very stable middle east country, it very rarely has terrorism problems if ever. Now look at Syria....make Syria like Kuwait, problem fixed. Now things like this can't be done without years of war and bloodshed, but its the only way. We can ether bring peace and stablity to the middle east, which will take time and lots of effort, or we can leave now and wait for the next 9/11.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then who do you think did it? Huh? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Israeli Zionist Extremists in combination with American Christian Zionists.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What would you call those men from Saudia Araba?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OBL and the Saudis employed to partake in 9/11 are all patsies. The intention was to incite American anger against Muslims and act as the catalyst for pre-emptive wars which would help the Israeli cause. Big oil here in America gets a boost because these same Islamic opponents happen to be rich in oil. It's a win-win for both Israel and U.S. oil.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->they had funding, and planing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More money and funding than you could possibly fathom. Far more than what Al Qaida is capable of. Oh, they also are in control of nearly every media channel in the U.S., so their propaganda machine can essentially force public opinion. They forced yours.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think it matters WHAT terrorist organization did it,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That statement is really scary. You've just flatly decided that no matter what kind of "terror" happens in the world, Al Qaida simply MUST have been behind it. This is a result of the propaganda convincing you that what you read or view simply must be true. If the "evidence" aired on CNN had pointed to a band of Soccer Mom Extremists here in the U.S., would you condone bombing ourselves since we obviously harbored these Soccer Mom terror cells? The fact is we spent relatively little money investigating 9/11. A max cap of only $3 million. 3 million! Do you know how much they spent investigating Clinton during the sex scandals? <b>40+ million</b>. In reality, the Bush admin has spent a <b>great deal</b> of effort ensuring that no one attempts to further investigate what really happened. It would not be very patriotic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also the answer is not to "frighting" to speak, it will end when we have killed all the terrorists, plain and simple. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, who are they? What are all their names? Is there some big list that we can check off? What kind of percentage are we at? Is there some big barometer in Washington that shows our progress in this area? Like we only have 10,000 more to go or something? Really, how many are there?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->These people don't understand peace, they don't have a government we can talk with, as sad as it is brute force is all we can use to stop them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps what we need to do is understand what terrorist organizations are truly upset about. Don't you think that's the best approach? What really makes them mad? It certainly isn't jealousy or envy. It most likely boils down to a few, key points. Address those points and the problem goes away. The trouble is, those points are far too vital for those who have the most vested interest in all of this. They don't wish for peace. The U.S. offense... err, I mean defense... industry surely doesn't seek peace. Now go back to my original sentences here and complete the circle. Except now, don't just assume Al Qaeda. Look to all of the other "terrorist" organizations out there. Include Israel in this picture.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Israeli Zionist Extremists in combination with American Christian Zionists.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Proof?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OBL and the Saudis employed to partake in 9/11 are all patsies. The intention was to incite American anger against Muslims and act as the catalyst for pre-emptive wars which would help the Israeli cause. Big oil here in America gets a boost because these same Islamic opponents happen to be rich in oil. It's a win-win for both Israel and U.S. oil.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Proof? (edit, had to get this in) Notice that we have yet to profit from anything on the war on terror or the war in Iraq, oil or otherwise. In fact were spending money, and we don't expect the Iraqis to pay us back. Remember when we rebulit Japan after WW2? Ever think we might be doing it for a good reason?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->More money and funding than you could possibly fathom. Far more than what Al Qaida is capable of. Oh, they also are in control of nearly every media channel in the U.S., so their propaganda machine can essentially force public opinion. They forced yours.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one forced my opinion, I read-watch both "conservitive" and "liberal" news sources, and decide for myself, please stop posting your anti-semitic media theroies. Watch CNN, or read TIME, they are not so kind to Bush or the war on terror. We have fair news in America to spite what you may think.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That statement is really scary. You've just flatly decided that no matter what kind of "terror" happens in the world, Al Qaida simply MUST have been behind it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I'm saying that it DOSN'T matter what terrorist organization did it, were not playing favorites, its called the war on terror, not the war on Al Qaida. They were the ones who attacked us on 9/11, they were also one of the largeist networks, a good place to start.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Israeli Zionist Extremists in combination with American Christian Zionists.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> from the tone of your post Im guessing the illuminati helped <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm headed out of town for vacation (as I type, actually.) Without taking this thread into off-topic hell, I'll send you a PM with my theories about 9/11 when I get back. Of course you may not be interested in hearing them, like the millions of other Americans who are happy with what they've been told. If this means you, save me the trouble and just say so. If you are still interested (or anyone else for that matter) I'd be happy to share them. I am no more anti-semitic than you are anti-islamic. We just happen to have different opinions about who the real terrorists behind 9/11 actually were.
Except we have proof that Al Qaida was behind 9/11. There is no proof that "Israeli Zionist Extremists in combination with American Christian Zionists." had anything to do with 9/11. I hope I'm not breaking forum rules by calling this nothing more then an extrem left wing theroy. If you get a chance please post your news sources for this information. (edit) If there was any Real proof to what your saying, it would have been dragged out into the media, big time. To spite what you may think not all major media is controlled by the jews. Not to mention that the jews in America really have no major connection with the jews in Israel in fact many jews in Israel dislike jews in America. Theres no big media coverup game being played here.
What proof do we have that Al-Qaeda really is behind 9/11? And don't post any of the "confessions", because a confession can easily be beaten out of someone.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When God blessed one of the groups of Islam, vanguards of Islam, they destroyed America. I pray to God to elevate their status and bless them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bin Laden seems to think it was Islamic terrorists who commited this act. Did the "Israeli Zionist Extremists in combination with American Christian Zionists." get him to say that?
<a href='http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/alqaeda.html' target='_blank'>http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/alqaeda.html</a> A good Q and A
<a href='http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/08/29/terror.germany/' target='_blank'>http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/08/29...terror.germany/</a> oh and this one
So? If OBL thought Islamic groups did it, wouldn't he give blessings to them?
Look, the USG can track a person down rather easily, even if he is out in the middle of nowhere. Why haven't they hunted down OBL after so long? Afraid of what he might say? Oh, and don't say "They almost had him." That's like me saying "Oh, I almost got into Harvard, or MIT" Almost doesn't cut it.
and .com sources do not always bode well. .org's are usually more believable as they aren't in the business of making money. .gov sites are the best if your quoting something.
CNN is a believable source in my book. I have no idea why they havn't caught Bin Laden, but I highly doubt its because they are afriad of what he might say. You are right though, there is no reason we havn't caught Bin Laden yet, we should have him. Maybe people put to much faith in us. Maybe we need terrorist hunting lerks... <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
IMHO, I think that once the USG captures Bin Laden, a lot of people would believe that the "war on terror" is over, when it's far from it, and they wouldn't be so willing to keep certain bits of legislature that are, at times, an outright violation of civil rights. and people would actually see the economy.
Well capturing Osama would be a victory, but I doubt it would signal the end of the war on terror. As for the economy, which someone should start a topic on, Its not AS bad as some people make it out to be, take a look at the rest of the world, were not the only ones in a slum. 9/11 brought are already slumping economy crashing down. Its gonna take awhile to bulid back up to what we consider to be "good".
Perhaps, it is an interesting idea, maybe were not catching Osama so we can keep the war on terror going as long as we need, then when were done, we bring him in.
Well it certainly is an interesting scenario. Sometimes I swear that when news channels post the latest "Bin Laden" speech it's just like the 2 minute hate. "Osama is the reason the war is going on, Osama is the reason last week the chocolate ration was cut to 20 grams, we hate Osama!"
As has been mentioned before, defeating terrorism is a virtually impossible task. Stability? Syria will never be like Kuwait because Syria doesn't have the vast oil reserves of Kuwait. And when Kuwait's oil reserves run out, I'll bet very large money that Kuwait will collapse into instability.
In any case, undertaking invasions of countries is one of the best ways to <i>destabilise</i> regions. By invading Iraq, Iran has gone even further into fundamentalism and is surging forwards with their nuclear program and in Saudi Arabia extremist rhetoric is one the rise coupled with anti-american sentiments. Really not good news for the US, but wonderful news for terrorist groups.
Except that the conspiracy theory of not capturing Bin Laden or Hussein doesn't make any sense. If you are entering an election year, having two mass-murdering scumbags on the loose that you have been hunting for years makes you look like an impotent fool. If the Bush administration wanted to get an easy reelection, they'd simply capture those two guy right now and say 'Look - we made the world safer! Re-elect me for more good news!'. As it stands currently, every single opponent to the President can say 'Bush is a tool - look how he let some bearded mulah yahoo murderer evade us for 2 years straight. Elect <i>me</i> and we'll get this train back on the tracks.'
And Ryo, that theory that fighting terrorism causes more terrorism is nonsense that does not bear up under the slightest examination. The only thing a terrorist understands is force, and sticking your head in the sand simply leads to WW2. The same scumbag terrorists that we helped in their war against the Soviets, and who would not be alive today without our help in that conflict, are the ones attacking us now; help them or hurt them, they will hate us forever and backstab us forever, no matter what. So you might as well get your licks in on the little **** right now and keep them busier with staying out of Gitmo than blowing themselves up in a schoolbus.
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Oct 24 2003, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Oct 24 2003, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that theory that fighting terrorism causes more terrorism is nonsense that does not bear up under the slightest examination. The only thing a terrorist understands is force, . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you sure? terrorists arent monsters, they are humans. they arent attacking targets for fun, they have a goal.
sorry for this patronising example but here goes.... imagine you live in country a, country a is under 'economic attack' from country b. Whenever they feel like it b bombs a, your family is killed in the bombing (add to this being taught your whole life to hate country a anyway). now how are you going to react to this? dont tell me youll laugh it off, you are going to try to hurt country a as much as you can. and what is litterally the only way to do any kind of damage? terrorism.
i mean, if america stopped treating large portions of the world so poorly, there might not be so many people out there willing to blow themselfs up in a effort to do what little damage they can. violence never generates anything but more violence!
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Oct 24 2003, 01:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Oct 24 2003, 01:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> MonsE is the king of subtlity : P <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ROFL.
That should be my new sig... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Melatonin+Oct 24 2003, 01:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Oct 24 2003, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i mean, if america stopped treating large portions of the world so poorly, there might not be so many people out there willing to blow themselfs up in a effort to do what little damage they can. violence never generates anything but more violence! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We treat a large number of the world very well too, you just can't please everyone. Without our support, Saudi Arabia would be an Iraqi state, just like Kuwait, as of 1991. Afghanistan would be a state of the Soviets also, as of 1986.
Saying violence never generates anything but more violence is, of course, completely untrue. Look at western europe - ever since we used violence to kill off all those violent nazi's, things have been pretty hunky dory. Just ask Nemesis. It's the same principle with a terrorist; ignoring them just lets them know you're weak and ready for scalping.
<!--QuoteBegin--Melatonin+Oct 24 2003, 12:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Oct 24 2003, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Oct 24 2003, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Oct 24 2003, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that theory that fighting terrorism causes more terrorism is nonsense that does not bear up under the slightest examination. The only thing a terrorist understands is force, . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you sure? terrorists arent monsters, they are humans. they arent attacking targets for fun, they have a goal.
sorry for this patronising example but here goes.... imagine you live in country a, country a is under 'economic attack' from country b. Whenever they feel like it b bombs a, your family is killed in the bombing (add to this being taught your whole life to hate country a anyway). now how are you going to react to this? dont tell me youll laugh it off, you are going to try to hurt country a as much as you can. and what is litterally the only way to do any kind of damage? terrorism.
i mean, if america stopped treating large portions of the world so poorly, there might not be so many people out there willing to blow themselfs up in a effort to do what little damage they can. violence never generates anything but more violence! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> While that may be true the point is ceasing violent action against terrorists may slow terrorism down, completely erradicating terrorism is the only way to make it cease to happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->that theory that fighting terrorism causes more terrorism is nonsense that does not bear up under the slightest examination. The only thing a terrorist understands is force<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree 100%, as I think I said before...somewhere in here, the terrorists have no government, you can't sit down and have peace talks with them, they are thinly spread all around the world. You need to hit them were it hurts, where they get their funding and suport. We hit Afganistain, Iraq, but there are still many more places that harbor terrorists, for this war on terror to be a sucess we have to finish them off, meaning Syria, Saudi Araba(someday), and Iran. Although I think Iran can be brought down by its people, who want to be free...which sounds like a good idea for a new topic.
but dont you think its entirely unreasonable to topple various nations in the process?! seriously, you talk of destroying Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia is if its nothing.
do you not see how this is entirely wrong?!
man, America cant just attack anyone as and when it feels like it! these are nations which probably have less links to state terrorism than America itself.
keep attacking random nations and people will band togeather in resistance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Except that the conspiracy theory of not capturing Bin Laden or Hussein doesn't make any sense. If you are entering an election year, having two mass-murdering scumbags on the loose that you have been hunting for years makes you look like an impotent fool. If the Bush administration wanted to get an easy reelection, they'd simply capture those two guy right now and say 'Look - we made the world safer! Re-elect me for more good news!'. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are following the "Wag the Dog" rule of reelection, if he were to produce Osama's head on a pike right now his job would be over in many American's minds. Thus the unstated promise must be that he will give us Osama after he is reelected. You and I know that getting Osama wouldn't be the end of things by a long shot, but remeber, most of America actually likes reality television.
Comments
Does CIA need a new finding? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone know how this line is supposed to be read?
I do. It's when people start attacking me personally that I get upset. I have nothing against differeing opinions, in fact I enjoy the debate. There is at least one individual, however, that seems to have a problem with me personally and looks to provoke a flame war at every turn. All I've tried to do is offer another viewpoint. Sometimes that requires defending myself, unfortunately, since my opinions and beliefs seem to be rarely in the majority.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Rumsfeld thinks on lots of levels. These questions are entirely appropiate for a leader to ask his subordinates when he is attempting to refine the policy and direction of an action under way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The memo is classic Rumsfeld. He's well known for sending these things out to his staff on a regular basis to stir things up and to get them thinking. He's in charge of an enormous organization known for its inertia and he needs to keep hammering away at people to get it to change direction. This is nothing new except that someone copied it and sent it around to staff to get additional input and it ended up in the newspaper where it was *GASP!* "misrepresented".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This "could" be a positive thing? Do you know anything about the dynamics of leadership in larger organizations? This is ABSOLUTELY positive. This was a "warning order" to be prepared to answer questions at an upcoming meeting. This is exactly what is expected of any CEO of any organization...the ability to look at the "big picture" and ask the hard questions. Typically, you consider "what is the worst case scenario" (we used to call them the "What if the only thing you manufacture was rendered obsolete by a new invention...what would you do?" questions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then who do you think did it? Huh? What would you call those men from Saudia Araba? Even if and its a big IF Al Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11, the people who did it were not acting on their own, they had funding, and planing. I don't think it matters WHAT terrorist organization did it, it was done, we decided that most evidance pointed to one group, we attacked them. Don't try and justify or take blame off Al Qaeda.
Also the answer is not to "frighting" to speak, it will end when we have killed all the terrorists, plain and simple. We have made a good start, its not going to be a peaceful war or whatever strange things you may think we could do besides fighting. These people don't understand peace, they don't have a government we can talk with, as sad as it is brute force is all we can use to stop them.
Israeli Zionist Extremists in combination with American Christian Zionists.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What would you call those men from Saudia Araba?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OBL and the Saudis employed to partake in 9/11 are all patsies. The intention was to incite American anger against Muslims and act as the catalyst for pre-emptive wars which would help the Israeli cause. Big oil here in America gets a boost because these same Islamic opponents happen to be rich in oil. It's a win-win for both Israel and U.S. oil.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->they had funding, and planing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More money and funding than you could possibly fathom. Far more than what Al Qaida is capable of. Oh, they also are in control of nearly every media channel in the U.S., so their propaganda machine can essentially force public opinion. They forced yours.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think it matters WHAT terrorist organization did it,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That statement is really scary. You've just flatly decided that no matter what kind of "terror" happens in the world, Al Qaida simply MUST have been behind it. This is a result of the propaganda convincing you that what you read or view simply must be true. If the "evidence" aired on CNN had pointed to a band of Soccer Mom Extremists here in the U.S., would you condone bombing ourselves since we obviously harbored these Soccer Mom terror cells? The fact is we spent relatively little money investigating 9/11. A max cap of only $3 million. 3 million! Do you know how much they spent investigating Clinton during the sex scandals? <b>40+ million</b>. In reality, the Bush admin has spent a <b>great deal</b> of effort ensuring that no one attempts to further investigate what really happened. It would not be very patriotic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also the answer is not to "frighting" to speak, it will end when we have killed all the terrorists, plain and simple. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, who are they? What are all their names? Is there some big list that we can check off? What kind of percentage are we at? Is there some big barometer in Washington that shows our progress in this area? Like we only have 10,000 more to go or something? Really, how many are there?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->These people don't understand peace, they don't have a government we can talk with, as sad as it is brute force is all we can use to stop them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps what we need to do is understand what terrorist organizations are truly upset about. Don't you think that's the best approach? What really makes them mad? It certainly isn't jealousy or envy. It most likely boils down to a few, key points. Address those points and the problem goes away. The trouble is, those points are far too vital for those who have the most vested interest in all of this. They don't wish for peace. The U.S. offense... err, I mean defense... industry surely doesn't seek peace. Now go back to my original sentences here and complete the circle. Except now, don't just assume Al Qaeda. Look to all of the other "terrorist" organizations out there. Include Israel in this picture.
Proof?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OBL and the Saudis employed to partake in 9/11 are all patsies. The intention was to incite American anger against Muslims and act as the catalyst for pre-emptive wars which would help the Israeli cause. Big oil here in America gets a boost because these same Islamic opponents happen to be rich in oil. It's a win-win for both Israel and U.S. oil.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Proof? (edit, had to get this in) Notice that we have yet to profit from anything on the war on terror or the war in Iraq, oil or otherwise. In fact were spending money, and we don't expect the Iraqis to pay us back. Remember when we rebulit Japan after WW2? Ever think we might be doing it for a good reason?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->More money and funding than you could possibly fathom. Far more than what Al Qaida is capable of. Oh, they also are in control of nearly every media channel in the U.S., so their propaganda machine can essentially force public opinion. They forced yours.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one forced my opinion, I read-watch both "conservitive" and "liberal" news sources, and decide for myself, please stop posting your anti-semitic media theroies. Watch CNN, or read TIME, they are not so kind to Bush or the war on terror. We have fair news in America to spite what you may think.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That statement is really scary. You've just flatly decided that no matter what kind of "terror" happens in the world, Al Qaida simply MUST have been behind it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I'm saying that it DOSN'T matter what terrorist organization did it, were not playing favorites, its called the war on terror, not the war on Al Qaida. They were the ones who attacked us on 9/11, they were also one of the largeist networks, a good place to start.
from the tone of your post Im guessing the illuminati helped <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When God blessed one of the groups of Islam, vanguards of Islam, they destroyed America. I pray to God to elevate their status and bless them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bin Laden seems to think it was Islamic terrorists who commited this act. Did the "Israeli Zionist Extremists in combination with American Christian Zionists." get him to say that?
<a href='http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/alqaeda.html' target='_blank'>http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/alqaeda.html</a>
A good Q and A
<a href='http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/08/29/terror.germany/' target='_blank'>http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/08/29...terror.germany/</a>
oh and this one
Look, the USG can track a person down rather easily, even if he is out in the middle of nowhere. Why haven't they hunted down OBL after so long? Afraid of what he might say? Oh, and don't say "They almost had him." That's like me saying "Oh, I almost got into Harvard, or MIT" Almost doesn't cut it.
and .com sources do not always bode well. .org's are usually more believable as they aren't in the business of making money. .gov sites are the best if your quoting something.
As has been mentioned before, defeating terrorism is a virtually impossible task. Stability? Syria will never be like Kuwait because Syria doesn't have the vast oil reserves of Kuwait. And when Kuwait's oil reserves run out, I'll bet very large money that Kuwait will collapse into instability.
In any case, undertaking invasions of countries is one of the best ways to <i>destabilise</i> regions. By invading Iraq, Iran has gone even further into fundamentalism and is surging forwards with their nuclear program and in Saudi Arabia extremist rhetoric is one the rise coupled with anti-american sentiments. Really not good news for the US, but wonderful news for terrorist groups.
And Ryo, that theory that fighting terrorism causes more terrorism is nonsense that does not bear up under the slightest examination. The only thing a terrorist understands is force, and sticking your head in the sand simply leads to WW2. The same scumbag terrorists that we helped in their war against the Soviets, and who would not be alive today without our help in that conflict, are the ones attacking us now; help them or hurt them, they will hate us forever and backstab us forever, no matter what. So you might as well get your licks in on the little **** right now and keep them busier with staying out of Gitmo than blowing themselves up in a schoolbus.
(I second what he said)
you sure?
terrorists arent monsters, they are humans.
they arent attacking targets for fun, they have a goal.
sorry for this patronising example but here goes....
imagine you live in country a, country a is under 'economic attack' from country b. Whenever they feel like it b bombs a, your family is killed in the bombing (add to this being taught your whole life to hate country a anyway). now how are you going to react to this? dont tell me youll laugh it off, you are going to try to hurt country a as much as you can.
and what is litterally the only way to do any kind of damage? terrorism.
i mean, if america stopped treating large portions of the world so poorly, there might not be so many people out there willing to blow themselfs up in a effort to do what little damage they can.
violence never generates anything but more violence!
ROFL.
That should be my new sig... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
violence never generates anything but more violence! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We treat a large number of the world very well too, you just can't please everyone. Without our support, Saudi Arabia would be an Iraqi state, just like Kuwait, as of 1991. Afghanistan would be a state of the Soviets also, as of 1986.
Saying violence never generates anything but more violence is, of course, completely untrue. Look at western europe - ever since we used violence to kill off all those violent nazi's, things have been pretty hunky dory. Just ask Nemesis. It's the same principle with a terrorist; ignoring them just lets them know you're weak and ready for scalping.
you sure?
terrorists arent monsters, they are humans.
they arent attacking targets for fun, they have a goal.
sorry for this patronising example but here goes....
imagine you live in country a, country a is under 'economic attack' from country b. Whenever they feel like it b bombs a, your family is killed in the bombing (add to this being taught your whole life to hate country a anyway). now how are you going to react to this? dont tell me youll laugh it off, you are going to try to hurt country a as much as you can.
and what is litterally the only way to do any kind of damage? terrorism.
i mean, if america stopped treating large portions of the world so poorly, there might not be so many people out there willing to blow themselfs up in a effort to do what little damage they can.
violence never generates anything but more violence! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While that may be true the point is ceasing violent action against terrorists may slow terrorism down, completely erradicating terrorism is the only way to make it cease to happen.
MonsE: Definatly, hail to the king.
I agree 100%, as I think I said before...somewhere in here, the terrorists have no government, you can't sit down and have peace talks with them, they are thinly spread all around the world. You need to hit them were it hurts, where they get their funding and suport. We hit Afganistain, Iraq, but there are still many more places that harbor terrorists, for this war on terror to be a sucess we have to finish them off, meaning Syria, Saudi Araba(someday), and Iran. Although I think Iran can be brought down by its people, who want to be free...which sounds like a good idea for a new topic.
seriously, you talk of destroying Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia is if its nothing.
do you not see how this is entirely wrong?!
man, America cant just attack anyone as and when it feels like it!
these are nations which probably have less links to state terrorism than America itself.
keep attacking random nations and people will band togeather in resistance.
They are following the "Wag the Dog" rule of reelection, if he were to produce Osama's head on a pike right now his job would be over in many American's minds. Thus the unstated promise must be that he will give us Osama after he is reelected. You and I know that getting Osama wouldn't be the end of things by a long shot, but remeber, most of America actually likes reality television.