Iran
reasa
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Can its people bring about a revolution?</div> Iran is a member of the "axis of evil". But what I read and see of its people, I like. They seem to embrace American culture. Not to long ago riots and protests were going on. I think with the right nudgeing, and some pressure put on the Iranian government, enough people will revolt and force the government to change. I hope this could be possible a forced invasion of Iran (which yes could happen someday) would be a messy conflict. But if we could get the Iranian people to bring about the change them selves, then give them all the aid we can, I think it would be the best victory in the war on terror yet. Of course now Iran is increseing its relations with Russia, which sticks its nose into the middle east more then we do sometimes. If we were to help bring about any changes what would this mean for our relations with Russia?
Comments
How does Bushes 'axis of evil' has to do with anything? I could say that all Australian talk funny but it's only my opinion <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ."the best victory in the war on terror yet" What Irans people revolting has to do with terrorists and terror? I assume you mean that Iran government wouldn't support terrorism anymore.
However I see you are on the right tracks: let the people do it for themselves. They WILL do it if they want it really. They don't need anyones help.
French revolution, Yanks vs. Brits, collapsing of USSR. There is a natural order to things, people will aspire for what is best for them.
But Iran's government is no push over, and I wouldn't put it aganst them to kill there own people if the revolt become to threating. A little outside help from the US might be useful.
Revolution is probably the easiest thing in the world to do. All you have to do is nothing, but the whole country has to have the guts (and co-ordination) to do it.
how many people have died in the last year as a direct result of the actions of the Iranian government.
now a comparison.
how many people have died in the last year as a direct result of the actions of the American government.
Sort your own nation out before you start deciding 'who deserves to be overthrown next'.
So 80% of the european population that was against the Iraq attack should prepare for an immediate assault from US? Because we are against you. To quote monse that so many times said this to me: things aren't so black and white.
Ok, at this point just to spice up the discussion, I want a link. A link that proves Irans leaders are supporting terrorism.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To quote monse that so many times said this to me: things aren't so black and white. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And my work is done here. I convinced Dread of something... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok, at this point just to spice up the discussion, I want a link. A link that proves Irans leaders are supporting terrorism. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=14' target='_blank'>http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet....fm?articleid=14</a>
<a href='http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21493-2003Oct13.html' target='_blank'>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2003Oct13.html</a>
<a href='http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2000/2441.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2000/2441.htm</a>
<a href='http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief2-3.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief2-3.htm</a>
There go, kind sir.
edit: added a couple more links
<a href='http://www.useu.be/Categories/GlobalAffairs/July2302USIran.html' target='_blank'>http://www.useu.be/Categories/GlobalAffair...2302USIran.html</a>
<a href='http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1994/940126-323905.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1994/940126-323905.htm</a>
<a href='http://www.usembassy-israel.org.il/publish/peace/archives/2002/july/072405.html' target='_blank'>http://www.usembassy-israel.org.il/publish...uly/072405.html</a>
And this one is very good.
<a href='http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing3/witness_gasiorowski.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hea...gasiorowski.htm</a>
Well, thank you for bringing forth teh evidence. However I still think that Iran people will revolt if they want , and if USA wants to speed it up to get rid of the unwanted government, it could help with some other way than bombing a crap out of it. It's much better in the end when the people do it themselves, even if it takes a little longer. Invading is messy for all sides.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To quote monse that so many times said this to me: things aren't so black and white. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And my work is done here. I convinced Dread of something... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was just about to post about her, it is a really good sign for women's rights in Iran. Most of the students and younger people in Iran accept her beliefs and a lot of them actually radically oppose the current culture, things might very well turn around there.
Problem is, as soon as we start saying "War on terror = war on fundamentalist Islam", we get into all sorts of nasty grey areas. The most radical cleric here in Australia for example actively campaigns against terrorist actions and is well respected in the Islamic community. If we start classifing all fundamentalist Muslims as terrorists or terrorist supporters then we not only make a heck of a lot of people very angry but we push more people into the fundamentalist camp. And if they didn't support terrorism before, you can be sure some of them will be supporting it now.
Actively trying to bring about a revolution in Iran could backfire massively. If the government got wind of it at all, they would have massive propaganda fodder, more than what they have already with the "axis of evil" remark. Jammer and others insist that fundamentalist Islam is inherintly flawed, and if they are correct, it will fade away naturally. Try and actively remove it, either by war or revolution, and you face the terrifying prospect of an Islam vs The West war occuring.
Well, as with most "sterotypes" this seems to be true. But as for the rulers of Iran, who happen to be fundamentalist muslims, and also happen to suport terrorism, if calling them what they are makes people angry, then to bad.
What let them rule Iran was the CIA - induced coup , as PKHG said , overthrowing a popular leader (Mossadegh) for mercantile reasons. The islamist leaders took power by exploiting the hate of the US to eject the Shah. Part of their power still relies on this , so it would be counterproductive for the US to intervene again.
DON'T put anymore pressure on them. If anything , it would make repression easier. You have to stay cool to defuse a bomb. To ensure transparency on the WMD thing , the diplomatic way is the best , and we Europeans have made a significant agreement with them , regarding random weapon controls and the like. Progress here is faster when there is no pressure. Even the mollahs can negociate , it's not like they were from an "inferior" civilization.
first it has close ties to russia, in fact various members of russias parliment have advocated a policy of attacking iran is like attacking russia.
given the state of teh russian military this is a threat of nuclear war. the reasons be hind this are simple : cash. Iran becasue of teh revolution recieves almost zero western aid. this means Iran is a captive market for the CIS.(commonwealth independant states (former ussr)). the russians sell about 500 million a year in arms to iran. tehy are curretnly constructing a 800 million dollar nuclear power plant<a href='http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/facility/bushehr.htm' target='_blank'>in Bushehr</a>, with the option for building a second rector. the first reac tor is schedualed to be completeed by the end of teh year.
second any action taken by the US against Iran will be percieved across much of teh muslim world as proof that the war on terror is merely a crack down on islamic culture and religion. this is not somehting teh united states wants. the public relations nightmare will push many islamic governments away from america. some of the more cooperative regimes like the saudis would be devasted with a very real danger of theri govenrments falling apart.
third iran is in a process of internal political cahnge teh old guard is dying out. teh younger generations are gradually changing teh face of teh nation. american does not need to become in volved i the nation for political reasons.
Anyway if revolution does happen, and its starts to go badly for the people, I wouldn't doubt that the US would help them in some way.