Skulk battles would be very, very, very funny to watch... No one would ever be able to hit each other <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
So, what happens at the beginning of the game when all of the skulks rush at the other team's hive? If they don't get killed, the hive goes down pretty quickly, making for a boring game.
Whats the difference from skulks rushing the marien start,then surviving long enough to kill the marines and IP?
Btw can you guys imagine shottys with MVM?1 pointblank shot = dead marine.Of course the other side has LMGs to shoot you with,but its an interesting idea.Also,HMGs.Imagine HMGs!Since marines move so slowly,HMGs would rip them apart.Or GLs vs turrets....
All the problems here can be fixed either by changing tactics (ooooh scary), or slight balance fixes.
MVM: You cant build in the vicinity of enemy (key) structures (explain by nanogridlock if you want), make marines slightly faster for more dodging effect, tone down gl damage/range perhaps, extend elec range but make it target only 1, (increase (some) buildings health, focussed attacks can easily take down key buildings while ignoring defence, offset this by extra ammo?)
AVA: make ocs track faster and make em cheaper (defence can get taken down rather quickly), scs work as obs near eachother and cloaked aliens (eg scannersweep by putting a sc up), total of 5 hives, hives low enough for onos to hit and make the top unaccessable, (slight) decrease in skulk bite dam (speed and size makes it hard to hit for other classes.
Probably more things that needs adressed but its still possible, yet takes time and flayra & co deserve a rest now and then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hm, random idea, how about some kind of hybrid race, with some of the human tech, and some of the alien ablitys, say they were a secret colonia experiment or something.
may turn out to be intresting, may turn out to be lame.. who knows :x
But d00ds!!! Some of you foresaw cloak as a problem in aliens vs aliens. This could finally make pheromones useful! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Too bad, if they are going to remove and replace them with something else. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit] I was so exited about my amazing discovery, that I forgot to comment Marines vs Marines. Marines of course would have some kind of bulletproof vests, so that HMG:s wouldn't kill them on 0,1 seconds.... Or maybe would. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> [/edit]
<!--QuoteBegin--Retales+Oct 27 2003, 06:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Retales @ Oct 27 2003, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But d00ds!!! Some of you foresaw cloak as a problem in aliens vs aliens. This could finally make pheromones useful! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Too bad, if they are going to remove and replace them with something else. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is that better than scent of fear?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Whats the difference from skulks rushing the marien start,then surviving long enough to kill the marines and IP?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The difference is that skulk vs. skulk combat is much more difficult (unless they are made a lot slower), so a few rushes could be impossible to stop.
<!--QuoteBegin--i'm lost+Oct 27 2003, 03:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Oct 27 2003, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Retales+Oct 27 2003, 06:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Retales @ Oct 27 2003, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But d00ds!!! Some of you foresaw cloak as a problem in aliens vs aliens. This could finally make pheromones useful! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Too bad, if they are going to remove and replace them with something else. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is that better than scent of fear? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Aliens aren't afraid <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> . Instead they stink like ****. Especially gorges (they should leave a green trail of gas <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
If you want to test it out you just have to go into tourney mode and turn on sv_cheats. We did it on ns_hera. Just establish a 2nd base for the team2 and drop some weapons on both sides. Then go at it CS style... First team to kill the other team's HA guy wins.
Unfortunately M v M doesn't really work well because the guns will tear through marines like wet tissue paper. They're meant for aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--Walt+Oct 26 2003, 08:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walt @ Oct 26 2003, 08:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> aliens versus aliens sounds just a tad far fetched, but I can see marines vs marines working. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> tbh alien vs alien is much more likely, i dont see why during the fight for earth humans would fight with each other. Most teritorial animals like the kharaa would fight with each other for control of the base they have infested.
maybe the alien vs alien map could be like warpath for TFC where u have to capture points in order and when u have them all you win, but instead of flags it could be the skulks have to **** on a lampost like dogs do <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--[UVic] Morden+Oct 28 2003, 11:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([UVic] Morden @ Oct 28 2003, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unfortunately M v M doesn't really work well because the guns will tear through marines like wet tissue paper. They're meant for aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hum just like real guns do?
I think if any MVM or AvsA is gona happen it will be years from now with HL2's added weapon limits,to have 4 races in all. But if you where gona do all the work for that why make them clones of marines and aliens, make new ones for the pwnage of a 1v1v1v1 team game. But as long as we are all dreaming, i dream of HL2 NS with driveable stuff and HUGE maps think of it, a marine humvee out in a grass feild. "hey you hear that?" "hear what?" *20 skulks come leaping down the feld* "@*%@*% drive drive drive!!!" *the .50 cal blast away* *a copper flys in from over head and pwns the skulks* "hehe that'll show...." *cloaked mega ono eats the chopper*. I know its a dream but its a nice one is't it?
<!--QuoteBegin--Aka'lamanaia+Oct 28 2003, 10:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aka'lamanaia @ Oct 28 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if people cant get it, it was thought weapon limit was 35, when it actually is 45. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The current weapon limit, for all intents and purposes, is 32. There are 4 slots left currently. This limit can be raised to 45, but it would take a lot of coding, and it would make the game unstable.
I see one problem with the Alien vs Alien type of game.
This wouldn't be possible on current NS maps. New maps would have to be built for this because how can you have 2 alien teams with only 3 hive spots ?
Wouldn't it be fair that both teams can have 3 hives each ?
That would mean that new maps would have to have 6 hive spots. Also, alien battles would be more 3 dimensional (marine fights are on the ground most of the times as aliens can fight on ceilling, walls, mid-air, ...).
As for the marines, it's kind of similar. Each current NS map has a marine original spawn room. To make it more realistic, new maps would have to containt 2 marine spawn rooms. Current map could still be played but the 2nd marien spawn would have to be a random hive room.
Yes, new maps would need to be created. I don't think that would be too much of a problem, though. Plenty of people came out to make NS:C maps, and I think the same would happen for MvM or AvA. I think that an AvA map should have 5 hives, that way each team gets 2 hives and fights for control of the last hive.
Comments
Btw can you guys imagine shottys with MVM?1 pointblank shot = dead marine.Of course the other side has LMGs to shoot you with,but its an interesting idea.Also,HMGs.Imagine HMGs!Since marines move so slowly,HMGs would rip them apart.Or GLs vs turrets....
MVM: You cant build in the vicinity of enemy (key) structures (explain by nanogridlock if you want), make marines slightly faster for more dodging effect, tone down gl damage/range perhaps, extend elec range but make it target only 1, (increase (some) buildings health, focussed attacks can easily take down key buildings while ignoring defence, offset this by extra ammo?)
AVA: make ocs track faster and make em cheaper (defence can get taken down rather quickly), scs work as obs near eachother and cloaked aliens (eg scannersweep by putting a sc up), total of 5 hives, hives low enough for onos to hit and make the top unaccessable, (slight) decrease in skulk bite dam (speed and size makes it hard to hit for other classes.
Probably more things that needs adressed but its still possible, yet takes time and flayra & co deserve a rest now and then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
MvM sounds fun enough, but I could really care less about it. Bring on 2.1 and NS:C!
may turn out to be intresting, may turn out to be lame.. who knows :x
[edit] I was so exited about my amazing discovery, that I forgot to comment Marines vs Marines. Marines of course would have some kind of bulletproof vests, so that HMG:s wouldn't kill them on 0,1 seconds.... Or maybe would. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> [/edit]
How is that better than scent of fear?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Whats the difference from skulks rushing the marien start,then surviving long enough to kill the marines and IP?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference is that skulk vs. skulk combat is much more difficult (unless they are made a lot slower), so a few rushes could be impossible to stop.
I just don't see how it would work unless the game was totally redone and made about ten times as big to download.
How is that better than scent of fear? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens aren't afraid <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> . Instead they stink like ****. Especially gorges (they should leave a green trail of gas <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Unfortunately M v M doesn't really work well because the guns will tear through marines like wet tissue paper. They're meant for aliens.
tbh alien vs alien is much more likely, i dont see why during the fight for earth humans would fight with each other. Most teritorial animals like the kharaa would fight with each other for control of the base they have infested.
maybe the alien vs alien map could be like warpath for TFC where u have to capture points in order and when u have them all you win, but instead of flags it could be the skulks have to **** on a lampost like dogs do <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hum just like real guns do?
The current weapon limit, for all intents and purposes, is 32. There are 4 slots left currently. This limit can be raised to 45, but it would take a lot of coding, and it would make the game unstable.
This wouldn't be possible on current NS maps. New maps would have to be built for this because how can you have 2 alien teams with only 3 hive spots ?
Wouldn't it be fair that both teams can have 3 hives each ?
That would mean that new maps would have to have 6 hive spots. Also, alien battles would be more 3 dimensional (marine fights are on the ground most of the times as aliens can fight on ceilling, walls, mid-air, ...).
As for the marines, it's kind of similar. Each current NS map has a marine original spawn room. To make it more realistic, new maps would have to containt 2 marine spawn rooms. Current map could still be played but the 2nd marien spawn would have to be a random hive room.