Sensory First

Techen · October 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Will this ability change things?</div> O Replaced Enhanced Hearing with "focus". Each level of focus slows your weapon/ability rate of fire by 20%, and increases effectiveness (damage, duration) by 10%. Doesn't currently give a benefit to use of umbra or blink.

Got this from the new posted change log. As always these changes may not happen and are not in stone. Would like to know if you think this ability could tip the D-M-S scale? I can see S-D-M being an option for early map dominance while still having striking power due to the "Focus" ability.

(If someone knows exact numbers for marine health and alien damage. It would be nice to know how much a 30% gain really translates too.)

Necrosis · October 2003

Interesting how it doesn't currently affect Umbra.

In game terms, it would SEEM to give an important boost to Sensory, which right now is the weakest chamber. This would be good offensively, and defensively - much like Movement chambers can give Silence or Adrenaline.

Of course, being a wip log, we can't say with certainty if it'll be in the release, but it certainly sounds promising for the alien side <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Techen · October 2003

I noticed the umbra thing as well. As they were saying "duration" lasts 30% longer I suspect they mean spores . That maybe good news for lurks.

Forlorn · October 2003

The upgrade should not increase cooldown, it makes it crappy, what kind of an upgrade is that?<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> More like a downgrade.

chia-ono · October 2003

I wouldn't see this be used first still, since 30% incrase in damage still requires two bites from a skulk on a 0/0 marine. This might possibly replace movement chamber which brings dsm, inorder to kill higher armored marines. Might be useful for higher life forms with good aim to replace adrenaline, increase effectivieness of metabolize, increase duration for stomp. But then again it might not change anything at all at first since most people just hold the fire and attack blindly.

r3dsk4r3 · October 2003

i agree with chia-ono, people will probably just complain that the famous skulk tactic of 'spin around and bite' is now less effective. more skilled players will find it an advantage though. i think it will really give better players an oppurtunity to stray from dms.

the fact that sensory offers nothing defensive, and indirect offensive help really hinders its use in this version. even though focus seems more like a movement chamber ability, it would really be better than magic farting marine ability. so little people use it that i can't even remember its real name.

i can see this especially useful for lerks, the 90000 rounds-per-minute 1/2 damage spikes could use a little more 'oomph' behind them, even if the rof suffers.

Anonymous_Coward · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>(If someone knows exact numbers for marine health and alien damage. It would be nice to know how much a 30% gain really translates too.)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Your wish is my command. Beware, this is long.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'> L0 L1 L2 L3
Light armor 50 70 90 110
Effective Health 142.9 166.7 200 250

Heavy Armor 200 230 260 290
Effective Health 500 560 620 680

L0 L3
Skulk Bite 75 97.5
vs
L0 LA(HA) 2(7) 2(6)
L1 LA(HA) 3(8) 2(6)
L2 LA(HA) 3(9) 3(7)
L3 LA(HA) 4(10) 3(7)

Skulk Parasite 10 13 :D
L0 LA(HA) 15(50) 11(39)
L1 LA(HA) 17(56) 13(44)
L2 LA(HA) 20(62) 16(48)
L3 LA(HA) 25(68) 20(53)

Gorge Spit 30 39
vs
L0 LA(HA) 5(17) 4(13)
L1 LA(HA) 6(19) 5(15)
L2 LA(HA) 7(21) 6(16)
L3 LA(HA) 9(23) 7(18)

Gorge Healspray 16 20.8
vs
L0 LA(HA) 9(32) 7(25)
L1 LA(HA) 11(35) 9(27)
L2 LA(HA) 13(39) 10(30)
L3 LA(HA) 16(43) 13(33)

Gorge Bilebomb 200 260
vs
Resource Tower 30 24

Lerk Spike 16 20.8
vs
L0 LA(HA) 9(32) 7(25)
L1 LA(HA) 11(35) 9(27)
L2 LA(HA) 13(39) 10(30)
L3 LA(HA) 16(43) 13(33)

Fade Swipe 80 104
vs
L0 LA(HA) 2(7) 2(5)
L1 LA(HA) 3(7) 2(6)
L2 LA(HA) 3(8) 2(6)
L3 LA(HA) 4(9) 3(7)

Fade Acid Rocket 50 65
vs
L0 LA(HA) 3(10) 3(8)
L1 LA(HA) 4(12) 3(9)
L2 LA(HA) 4(13) 4(10)
L3 LA(HA) 5(14) 4(11)

Onos Gore 90 117
vs
L0 LA(HA) 2(6) 2(5)
L1 LA(HA) 2(7) 2(5)
L2 LA(HA) 3(7) 2(6)
L3 LA(HA) 3(8) 3(6)

Onos Gore 180 234
vs
Resource Tower 34 26</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I don't know exactly how Leap, Charge, and Xeno would be improved so I just skipped them.

The added 60% cooldown time seems to make this upgrade useful in only a few cases. Like extended duration spore clouds, brutal primal spiking, Gorges constantly healspraying and bilebombing without Adrenaline, Fades beating marines in fewer hits, more dangerous Skulks vs Heavies, and a better Stomp for Oni. It will also be very interesting to see how Metabolise will be affected.

Of course, all this may change before release day.

StoatBringer · October 2003

A 60% slowdown for a 30% increase in damage?

Umm... that doesn't sound like an advantage to me. Wouldn't you actually be dealing *less* damage per second than you would if you were attacking at the normal speed/damage?

Or am I getting my sums wrong? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Forlorn · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (StoatBringer @ Oct 27 2003, 10:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> A 60% slowdown for a 30% increase in damage?

Umm... that doesn't sound like an advantage to me. Wouldn't you actually be dealing *less* damage per second than you would if you were attacking at the normal speed/damage?

Or am I getting my sums wrong? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
You aren't wrong at all. Personally, I don't understand why they just don't make it so it gives the upgrade dmg boost with no downsides at all.

Gargamel · October 2003

good job anonymous coward! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

Necrosis · October 2003

Tough for the spammers - just take cloaking and camp it out instead.

For those of us who time our strikes, it shouldn't be too bad. Bit worried that RoF drops for seemingly no appreciable gain, but then I haven't seen what it would be like under Primal Scream. But the slow RoF really would be the kicker, since you'd be doing less damage overall - especially with energy drainers like Bile Bomb.

Mintman · October 2003

2 bites with lvl 1 armour, 2 swipes up to lvl 2 armour.

I LIKE!

Geminosity · October 2003

considering it's supposed to be an upgrade the overall downgrade is a bit odd but I'm sure that if it needs fixing then it'll come up in PTing ^^
Personally, the fact you're giving up SoF and Cloak to take this is downgrade enough, I'd at most make the speed decrease equal the damage increase =P

Xzilen · October 2003

Hm, you seem to think D-M-S is the only way to go now, perhaps they should up celerity a little bit more again to make movements more viable for first again.

Techen · October 2003

After reading some of the posts from the NS: Combat thread it looks like a few of the PTers and Vets like the Focus ability. It could be that you just need to aim better to get the results you want.

In addition its been mentioned that Xenocide and focus are a great combo. (Super Bomb!)

Uzguz · October 2003

Depending on how you use them, this ability would be a boon to Fades (and most people use them such that they would benefit). However, its other uses are somewhat limited in my opinion, and unless you're sure you're going to do something that it would actually boost (dedicated Spore from vent, for example), it would just be a hindrance.

That is, you have to be sure you'll want it, but if you are, boom.

And anything is better than Pheromones, so you aren't losing anything by this upgrade being in.

Fat_Wang · October 2003

at 1st the dmgfor rof thing seemed awesum to me... then i saw the #s <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> i was kinda thinking dbl the dmg and half the rof. the 60 decrease and 30 increase seems like a piece of ****!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean this is a frekin UPGRADE!!!!!!! u give up more than u gain so this is quite stupid. but then again, this is like a million bucks compared to pheramones...

BugBrain · October 2003

OK, now somebody figure out how many hits it would take each alien weapon to finish rines at all armor levels. If fades really do kill everything cept HA and lvl 3 armor in two swipes like mintman says, then this could be really excellent on fades.

edit: <b>Oh</b> I see. Thanks AC.

So, it looks like the alien that would most benefit from this is fades. Onos could use it for better stomp, but really, only fades would ever seriously consider this over SoF or claoking.

Anonymous_Coward · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BugBrain @ Oct 27 2003, 08:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> OK, now somebody figure out how many hits it would take each alien weapon to finish rines at all armor levels. If fades really do kill everything cept HA and lvl 3 armor in two swipes like mintman says, then this could be really excellent on fades. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Just scroll up on that page, the number to the right of L# LA(HA) text are the amount of hits needed to kill each level armor for both the normal attack and the upgraded attack. The numbers in parenthesis are the number of hits against Heavy Armor.

stick100 · October 2003

Well its actually a 33% per level slow down for a 33% per level increase. (Not positive about this, but quiet sure).

I am very sure tho that the slow down is = to the damage increase.

Hence you bit half as often for twice as much damage.

You will kill in 1 bite as a skulk with focus.

Focus plus SC cloaking is pretty awsome.

If you time your bites (IE aim them) but they are few and far between (in terms of time) then this upgrade would make you twice as good.

However I personally am not sure how to use it yet.

In a way it acts like adrenaline (you need 1/2 the energy regen total).

It also work very well with silence, as you can miss a whole bunch then BAM, kill them in one hit. They never knew you where trying to bite them for like 12 bites (granted those 12 bites take the time of 24 normal bites).

I *feel* alot weaker when I only attack as 1/2 rate. Even if I'm doing double damage. Focus has ALOT of potential, and does in someways remove the need for early Mcs.

ThE_HeRo · November 2003

This ability sounds like a downgrade instead of an upgrade to me. 60% longer cooldown time for only a 30% attack gain? Sounds dumb. There's got to be something else that you can put as a decent upgrade. I don't even think a 30% longer cooldown time for a 30% attack gain is worth it either. Maybe make focus to where you attack faster instead of doing more damage. Decrease the cooldown time. 15%, 30%, 50%. Might be a bit overpowered, but adjust it if you want.

im_lost · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ November 4 2003, 9:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Each level of Focus raises your attack damage and delay between attacks by 33.33333333%. So level 3 is essentially 200% base damage, but half as fast. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This contradicts the changelogs, but if it is true, then it can be a great upgrade if used correctly.

Geminosity · November 2003

if what stick said is true it's definitely going on my fade shopping list =3

rknZ · November 2003

With knock back being a factor (if it is a 50/50 trade off, ie twice as powerful twice as slow) then it will be very useful, and if i understand correctly the first skulk bite will kill a vanilla marine, if you have 3 SCs...

The fact that you have SCs around the map will be great too, just walk up cloaked to a marine and chomp him on one, instead of hitting him once, knock back taking effect, the 2nd chomp missing then him jumping around like a loony tryna dogde and fire at the same time <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

rknZ · November 2003

BTW I hear it only affects the first slot ability <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Geminosity · November 2003

yup ~points at changelog~
I think they did it to stop 'xenofocus' <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Kid-A · November 2003

Hmm I don't really see this changing that much. The main problem with aliens is not their offence it's the defence, the problem aliens have is not killing people it's getting close enough to kill people.

Defense upg's help this so it will remain <b>the</b> first chamber unless their are some major changes.

Perhaps Sc will be a viable 2nd chamber but tbh Adren makes lerking and fading alot easier. And celerity is superb for onos.

leek · November 2003

problem with not taking Mc as second chamber is that in the event of a hive emergancy the aliens cant get around and have to travel half the map to get to their hive to save it, Mc for second chamber always i say, in games ive pld recently where sense has been first we get dc second and then bam hive emergency half the team is spawning in the wrong place and by the time they got to the hive that needed em it was to late <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Turkey2 · November 2003

I think the biggest thing it will do is make the onos more of a game ender (well really 3 hives not just onos). I do think they may need to tweak the slowdown effect though. Might make redemption onos kinda useful... nah. Lessens the need for adren as less attacks with similar damage means longer that you can attack of course. I think if their gonna do 10,20,30 for damage you have to do the same for attack speed decrease. mmm focus gorge spit.

taboofires · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mintman @ Oct 27 2003, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 2 bites with lvl 1 armour, 2 swipes up to lvl 2 armour.

I LIKE!  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Remember, it's 2 SLOW swipes w/up to level 2 armor. Time to kill isn't much different.

I agree with forlorn on this one: a straight-up damage increase, even just a small one, would make it a more useful choice. Considering how much a cloaked skulk can dominate, I don't think I'll be using this much if it stays at its current bonus(?) levels. However, it's still extremely new, and still in beta, so it could go anywhere from here.

Forlorn · November 2003

It works like this I guess:

Double dmg at lv. 3 focus, but 66% slowdown at lv. 3 focus. So, it's actually more useful.

Still, if it only works for 1st slot then I honestly can say I'll be going sensory first.

Why not make it work for all upgrades EXCEPT for 4th slots?

So no xenofocus, primalfocus, chargefocus, webfocus?, acidrocket/focus.

Sensory First

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