Being An Artist
Hypergrip
SuspectGermany Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9689Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
SuspectGermany Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9689Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">learning vs talent</div> I'm the kind of person that needs a lot of "vents" to use my creativity from time to time.
Since I can hardly concentrate on anything special for too long, I do a lot of different things... making music, writing on a story, mapping, picture editing and so on... just depending on how I feel.
There are some things I think I do quite well in after some practice, others, like an attempt to draw a simple anime style face with the help of several tutorials, just won't work no matter how hard I try.
While looking for some tips on creative writing to help me make my story better, I stumbled over a book review that said something like "While we in Europe tend to belive that the ability to write stories on a very high level requires a given talent, american authors like <insert name of the guy who wrote that book about writing> belive that you can achive that level by analysing and practicing with special techniques descibed in this book".
So my question now is: Is there some thing as talent? Are some people "gifted" artists?
Or can people achive everything if they are tought correctly and practice hard?
Personally I think that every persona has different "potentials" for different things.
Some have a very high potential for a special thing.. that's what I'd call "talent".
In order to reach the highest levels of an art, you need a lot of practice, that's for sure... but you also need the talent, or all the practice will not help you any further and you will not improve beyond a certain level.
Talent would be some kind of hidden potential that would awake when stimulated the right way (doing the art the talent is for).
But if there are talents, where do they come from?
Do they evolve in our childhood and have to do with they way we were tought (psychological explaination)?
Do they have something to do with the way the cells in our brain are (neuro-physical explaination)?
Are they a "gift" a "spirit" or originate in our "soul" (religious / esotherical explaination)?
your oppinions please
Since I can hardly concentrate on anything special for too long, I do a lot of different things... making music, writing on a story, mapping, picture editing and so on... just depending on how I feel.
There are some things I think I do quite well in after some practice, others, like an attempt to draw a simple anime style face with the help of several tutorials, just won't work no matter how hard I try.
While looking for some tips on creative writing to help me make my story better, I stumbled over a book review that said something like "While we in Europe tend to belive that the ability to write stories on a very high level requires a given talent, american authors like <insert name of the guy who wrote that book about writing> belive that you can achive that level by analysing and practicing with special techniques descibed in this book".
So my question now is: Is there some thing as talent? Are some people "gifted" artists?
Or can people achive everything if they are tought correctly and practice hard?
Personally I think that every persona has different "potentials" for different things.
Some have a very high potential for a special thing.. that's what I'd call "talent".
In order to reach the highest levels of an art, you need a lot of practice, that's for sure... but you also need the talent, or all the practice will not help you any further and you will not improve beyond a certain level.
Talent would be some kind of hidden potential that would awake when stimulated the right way (doing the art the talent is for).
But if there are talents, where do they come from?
Do they evolve in our childhood and have to do with they way we were tought (psychological explaination)?
Do they have something to do with the way the cells in our brain are (neuro-physical explaination)?
Are they a "gift" a "spirit" or originate in our "soul" (religious / esotherical explaination)?
your oppinions please
Comments
Talent can also come in a variety of ways. A lot of good artists are really just good at seeing how things move and interact with one another. Having the ability to recreate these natural looking movements on paper. They also have one thing other people do not. Passion! If you don't have a passion for an activity you just wont excell in it. I've never met a good artist who just "liked" drawing. Another example is graffiti. Some people are just awesome at it because they love it and do it all the time. When they're walking somewhere they're thinking "hmmm this would look interesting" and picture designs in their heads.
I have a friend who plays guitar. He loves listening to music, but he casually plays his guitar. He doesn't practice with any seriousness and lacks passion when he plays. He's AWEFUL. He plays the same few songs he learned over and over and they never sound good. He just sits there plucking away while he watches TV. He can play a few decent songs when he's just jamming. But he lacks the passion to truely excel.
It's not that you're born with talent for some things. You just learn to love some activities and you're destined to excell in them. You have to EARN the talent. The passion is just what keeps you working at it harder than everyone else.
Sorry that's pretty rambly sounding.
Somebody who understands music (is a musical person) knows the motivation behind it, the mood, the emotion, etc. Somebody who doesn't have an innate feel for music will never reach the same level, in my opinion.
If this unmusical somebody recieves instruction from a musical person on how to play something, it will be a lot harder to detect the person's lack of musicality, but if you listen hard enough you can hear it.
I guess I just feel that there is some quality, some information, that is transferred through music that is in no way related to technical skill. It can't be defined, which boggles me. I don't know. There is some innate quality... maybe a sixth sense... that makes it possible to determine a real musician from a poser.
But yeah... There are cases here and there-cases that are unexplainable. Some people are born with a given talent in various fields ranging from: athelitics, writing, the sciences, and whatnot. Take Mozart as an example of a man who was born with a talent for playing and composing music, or Heinrich Heinecken, who by the age of his death (four) could speak three languages, etc.
In any given circumstance, people are born with bodies that are more adapated for physical activities and therefore more versed for that area. The mind, in my opinion, is a much greater thing than our body. There have been many great minds in the past, Einstein for example. Do you suppose he was born a great mind, or that he developed those abilities? I think he was born with the ability and developed it during his life. Sure the environment influences one's mind, but it doesn't explain how and so. Generally, the environment is responsible for your character-the person that you are, and the experiences that you learn from school and your parents accounts for your mental capacity...Well ok, the envronment...But you see where I am getting at?
If one is born beautiful, probably and most likely, one would be adapted for certain situations like social activities and that place, "Hollywood." The environment in this case is the media. The media pumps a lot of useless information to the brains of the unversed and the uneducated; it is partly responsible for so many idiotic and brainwashed teenagers amongst us-humans who don't know better and who don't know the possibilities. It effects even me and what I think about sometimes. If the media says it is cool to do certain things and my peers do these certain things, then I want to do them to. All these advertisements and whatnot make me sick to the bone; let us abolish them! But that is reality...
We are prone to the environment; what we see and breath affects us in every way-physically and mentally. For myself, I was born with a rough childhood, destined to make friends with bad people every step of the way. I have dealt with a lot of really weird and deranged people that I do not want to get into detail, but these experiences in my life have molded who I am. I have learned from the past, and have harnessed it for better use (though not in every aspect). Where as one of my friends right now, who hasn't had a hitch in his childhood or a single time in his past where he really regrets something, won't know what I know. He has a lot of acne, but he knows what it feels to have it, and accepts for he he is. Likewise, I am not as tall as him, and think critically about some features of myself, but generally, accept who I am. And I know what it feels to be me... We are equipped with certain things and have to use them to our best ability.
Personally, I think everyone is born with talent. The environment and the given circumstances we are faced just bring it out in a unique and different way.
P.S: my friend is a very cautious guy, a very orderly behaved and sensible person. I can be like him sometimes, but not all the times. I base my motives and decisions a lot on instinct and emotion, therefore leading to good and many times, idiotic actions. All of this relates to past experience.
Also, he is raised by very smart people, and he is very smart himself. He aslo likes to check his watch constantly, which I kind of understand. And I like to scream and yell sometimes for no reason.
Another thing to remember is that some skills are transferrable so you often get people picking up something they've never done before and still being incredibly good at it; mainly things like musicians being good at dance games because of their learned feel for rhythm or playing games after you've been playing all kinds of other ones for years.
In the end it's still a case of 'practise makes perfect' in my eyes, though if you don't put real effort in don't expect to really get anywhere <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That "undefinable quality" of art goes beyond both talent AND learning. There are plenty of people who are talented out there who don't have this "quality" as there are pleny of people who sweat blood to be good artists who also don't have this "quality." Certain things can HELP. For example, life experience can be a key factor in creating art, as noted strongly by Joseph Conrad and Earnest Hemingway, and technique can also play a heavy role, as noted by Van Gogh and Picasso. However, Emily Bronte was able to write a heavily symbolic book--Wuthering Heights--that focused on the human condition and the psychological destruction that lost love can cause... and the girl never left the bed, much less her HOUSE, for most of her short life. How is that possible? Simple (or, rather, NOT simple)... Bronte had the "undefinable."
You run into problems trying to define the undefinable, yeah, but who cares? It's better to try art for yourself and see how far you can go. Shed the reservations and do it... write, draw, play music... who gives a **** if you suck at first, everyone always sucks at first. Just go.
In conclusion, creativity is something youre born with, and talent is something that you learn. At least that's how I see it.
Through working in design i've come across a lot of people with natural talent and a lot of people who have been trained, and the difference is unmistakeable. I've seen technically very good work, but it has no soul, it's just pieced together techniques with no bond whatsoever, then i've seen imaginative and substantially more impressive work done by someone with no training, and i've been more impressed with the latter as opposed to the former.
I like Architecture and design, I literally have an utter fascination with it, and apparently, I seem to do quite well in it. English, and other types of classes, seem to hardly stimulate my imagination, at least, the weak unintellectual classes I must attend. Therefore, despite my understanding, I have no desire to even bother in that class, it most definetly seems like a waste of time simply because of it's lack of any form of critical thought.
*shrug*
Yeah, that's an excellent way of putting it. Like the difference between Yngwie Malmsteen and Thelonius Monk.
Motivation and ambition also seem to be important, but I really don't know how much. It can really get your **** in gear (it does for me), but it doesn't always yield great results.
Ed Wood always pops into mind... He really thought he was making art when he did Plan 9 From Outer Space.
there are certain arts, music is a good example, where a deeper understanding of technique pays off.
My point is, a soulful composition with bad technique will apeal to less people than a technical composition with little soul, because soul is preferance based on opinion, while technique is universally admirable.
of course, nothing beats a piece which is soulful <i>and</i> technical.
I think both can be learnt by the way, technique through practise, and also soul through living.
there are certain arts, music is a good example, where a deeper understanding of technique pays off.
My point is, a soulful composition with bad technique will apeal to less people than a technical composition with little soul, because soul is preferance based on opinion, while technique is universally admirable.
of course, nothing beats a piece which is soulful <i>and</i> technical.
I think both can be learnt by the way, technique through practise, and also soul through living. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting... Reminds me of a music review I read:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How is that terrible musicians are able to write incredible songs? And why can't technically competent musicians write songs as well as they can play their instruments? There are bands like The Kinks who-- let's face it-- were far from the most technically adept in their field, yet have somehow left behind some of the most timelessly enjoyable and imminently relevant rock music artifacts. Then there's a guy like Yngwie Malmsteen, whose technical proficiency exceeds that of every rock musician ever to exist-- maybe combined. And how many Alcatrazz records do you own?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then again, taking the bias of that reviewer, alot of it pretty much hinges on personal appeal. And I'm also not sure how appeal factors into art. I mean, some of the greatest poets and painters were ignored while they were still alive only to become relevant years later. At the same time, some of the greatest authors managed to snag huge success (curse you Charles Dickens). I don't know what to think of it.
Since I can hardly concentrate on anything special for too long, I do a lot of different things... making music, writing on a story, mapping, picture editing and so on... just depending on how I feel.
There are some things I think I do quite well in after some practice, others, like an attempt to draw a simple anime style face with the help of several tutorials, just won't work no matter how hard I try.
While looking for some tips on creative writing to help me make my story better, I stumbled over a book review that said something like "While we in Europe tend to belive that the ability to write stories on a very high level requires a given talent, american authors like <insert name of the guy who wrote that book about writing> belive that you can achive that level by analysing and practicing with special techniques descibed in this book".
So my question now is: Is there some thing as talent? Are some people "gifted" artists?
Or can people achive everything if they are tought correctly and practice hard?
Personally I think that every persona has different "potentials" for different things.
Some have a very high potential for a special thing.. that's what I'd call "talent".
In order to reach the highest levels of an art, you need a lot of practice, that's for sure... but you also need the talent, or all the practice will not help you any further and you will not improve beyond a certain level.
Talent would be some kind of hidden potential that would awake when stimulated the right way (doing the art the talent is for).
But if there are talents, where do they come from?
Do they evolve in our childhood and have to do with they way we were tought (psychological explaination)?
Do they have something to do with the way the cells in our brain are (neuro-physical explaination)?
Are they a "gift" a "spirit" or originate in our "soul" (religious / esotherical explaination)?
your oppinions please <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
the explanations you give are not mutually exclusive
anyhow a concrete basis for talent is simply genetic variability
some people have talent, and some <i>create, </i>and<i> develop</i> a new talent. the norm is to balance between your raw creativity and refinement by outside influence.
but that's the norm. if you're marc chagall, it's all you, baby.
<img src='http://us.greet1.yimg.com/img.greetings.yahoo.com/g/img/omg/flasher.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
it isn't.