Three bites is a big diffrence then two. Usually, with 2 bites the marines can go 1 on 1 with a sulk. If the sulk wins, chances are he is hurting. That extra bite usually means your rines come out the victors.
However,
level 2 armor generally doesn't affect anything since it's still 3 bites. Only leve 3 armor really changes anything. When I command, I usually get that detrimental level 1 armor, then max out weapons, then armor. xtra weapon damage is awesome, but for gods sake, I want that level 1 upgrade first!
Blame me for a noob or stupid in some other way but.. when im comming on pub's i go Weapons 1 and then Weapon 2. AFTER that Armor 1. You know why? cuz i lack the trust for my "servants" to aim good enough to kill those pesky alien. Expecially those early fades which have bursted to come quite popular nowadays.
But why would any of that matter? Even more willingy i would like to know why would that be wrong? Cause you say so? Well be my guest and join the line of arrogants. Everyone has their own way to play games. Not everyone is going to do what someone else thinks is the best. You say you think Armor 1 is the best? Good for you, i can only agree to disagree.
If you want to get mathmetic, make a guide. Dont claim that your oppinion is the "right" way.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ots+Nov 3 2003, 07:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Nov 3 2003, 07:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Blame me for a noob or stupid in some other way but.. when im comming on pub's i go Weapons 1 and then Weapon 2. AFTER that Armor 1. You know why? cuz i lack the trust for my "servants" to aim good enough to kill those pesky alien. Expecially those early fades which have bursted to come quite popular nowadays.
But why would any of that matter? Even more willingy i would like to know why would that be wrong? Cause you say so? Well be my guest and join the line of arrogants. Everyone has their own way to play games. Not everyone is going to do what someone else thinks is the best. You say you think Armor 1 is the best? Good for you, i can only agree to disagree.
If you want to get mathmetic, make a guide. Dont claim that your oppinion is the "right" way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're exactly the reason I posted. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I won't bother pointing out the flaws in your statement, I'm sure you can figure them out by yourself if you think about it for a while.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ots+Nov 3 2003, 08:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Nov 3 2003, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Blame me for a noob or stupid in some other way but.. when im comming on pub's i go Weapons 1 and then Weapon 2. AFTER that Armor 1. You know why? cuz i lack the trust for my "servants" to aim good enough to kill those pesky alien. Expecially those early fades which have bursted to come quite popular nowadays.
But why would any of that matter? Even more willingy i would like to know why would that be wrong? Cause you say so? Well be my guest and join the line of arrogants. Everyone has their own way to play games. Not everyone is going to do what someone else thinks is the best. You say you think Armor 1 is the best? Good for you, i can only agree to disagree.
If you want to get mathmetic, make a guide. Dont claim that your oppinion is the "right" way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If they can't aim, then they will be bit. If they will be bit, then it would be best for them to take as many bites as possible. You wonder why you are losing games? It's fairly obvious if you ask me.
If your marines live longer, they fire off more bullets. It more than pays off than the 1 extra bullet weapons 1 gives. Why is this so hard to understand?
I absolutely love it when the enemy comm goes weapons first. I'm able to kill groups of 4 or 5 marines by waiting in a ceiling corner, and letting them pass. Once I drop into a packed group of them, they just start shooting like mad, and I bounce all over the place... If I don't kill one on the first pass, the second pass will kill them. When the comm goes armor it becomes a heck of a lot harder to kill enemy marines.
<!--QuoteBegin--me23+Nov 3 2003, 04:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (me23 @ Nov 3 2003, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I absolutely love it when the enemy comm goes weapons first. I'm able to kill groups of 4 or 5 marines by waiting in a ceiling corner, and letting them pass. Once I drop into a packed group of them, they just start shooting like mad, and I bounce all over the place... If I don't kill one on the first pass, the second pass will kill them. When the comm goes armor it becomes a heck of a lot harder to kill enemy marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I like it when I go early fade and it takes a measly two swipes to kill them, makes my job a hellava lot easier.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 3 2003, 09:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 3 2003, 09:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they can't aim, then they will be bit. If they will be bit, then it would be best for them to take as many bites as possible. You wonder why you are losing games? It's fairly obvious if you ask me.
If your marines live longer, they fire off more bullets. It more than pays off than the 1 extra bullet weapons 1 gives. Why is this so hard to understand? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First, Excuse me, but who said im loosing my games?
Second, There are viable tactics to use in NS. I use which i think is the best. But why oh why should it be soo almighty "right" way to play the game if punch of people on these forums say so?
Stoneburg, please oh please point out my "flaws". Im more than eager to hear whats on your silly little mind.
Ots, the argument is that if you go weapons 1 first because you think your marines can't aim, you're really not doing that much to help them out. Now they have to land only 10 shots instead of 11 to kill a skulk, which considering the high rate of fire of the LMG isn't that noticeable of a difference. However, Armor 1 lets marines survive an extra bite from a skulk. So if they can't kill the skulk before it closes the distance to bite, ateast they have a few more seconds to fire off more rounds before the skulk is able to kill them.
Its also generally agreed that by the time fades come on the scene you really should have both upgrades done, if not weapons 2 already in the works. Armor 1 first can help you in this regard as well: directly, since it takes an extra swipe from fades to drop a marine; indirectly, since Armor 1 will help keep your marines alive and deny aliens resources from kills so they can't pull the early fade.
Try it for a couple games and see what difference it makes. I find that as a marine the early level 1 upgrade helps keep me alive so our team can take more territory. As an alien, Armor 1 means you have to focus a bit on one player to take them down, making the "wildly jump around a group of marines and bite like crazy" technique less effective since its harder to kill anyone even though you deal lots of damage.
I'm sure there are some circumstances where weapons 1 would make a better upgrade. Probably those big concrete box type of maps where the aliens simply don't have any place to hide and most engagements are at medium to long range. But for the most part, armor 1 seems to be the better way to go.
Okey, obviously im writing too short posts, so im trying to be very clear this time.
The Question Stoneburg made; <b>Armor Or Weapon Upgrades First?</b>
My Answer; It depends on the map, but i will most likely go with weapons first. To get 2nd level weapons asap.
Why? Cause 2nd level weapons help alot, Maybe more or less than 1 level armor in the beginning. It helps my troops who go in groups deal skulks/gorges/lerks/fades/onos's alot easier, im not so worried about the armor, since if its a close call. I can always medspam them abit to help. Sure it may be abit cheaper to upgrade armors first, but then my troops wouldnt have those damaging weapons, or if they would. They would have them too late. IMHO in start of the rounds, fast weapon upgrades is the way to go. But hey thats just me.
The thing im arguing about here; To me, this thread and some posts here claim that teching 1 level armor is the "right" way. I cannot whole heartly understand why or yet how you can claim so. Sure you have valid reasons behind your opinions. But you still dont have some ûber powers to claim that it is the "right" way to tech.
Ots let the kiddies be kiddies and play on a german serva where evry1 aggrees Wu s first.
A short story: I played now some days on TDA DOD 3rdNS server As soldier i realised AUs, the games took too long eg 40 mins and it was boring. I went comm some times handling out Wus first, me gots boring by electro rts and dropping some medpacks, i not needed to scan just some medpacks, really boring ****. Not to mention half team was nap but they attacked. And evry1 was happy to have me as their comm, i dunno why but it must be their frustration when they die due to a skulk within not 3 bites.
and i think the lack of the aliens to keep rushing as skulks is the failure in their systems, marines get many rfk, marines have too much time , marines are allowed to kill evry rt, and they see no early-fades. The gorgs died often noone build dcs more sens than dcs. and u dont need wus vor this sort of (early)fade.
If some1 could pls tell me the best server on GB ? ( i would be happy )
MT first because you don't need armor because you know the distance between you and ur enemy and your less likely to get hit....and better then wep up because you can have a better reaction time and get off almost twice as many rounds as you would have not knowing a skulk was coming around the corner...
<!--QuoteBegin--TOOL+Nov 3 2003, 11:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOOL @ Nov 3 2003, 11:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> MT first because you don't need armor because you know the distance between you and ur enemy and your less likely to get hit....and better then wep up because you can have a better reaction time and get off almost twice as many rounds as you would have not knowing a skulk was coming around the corner... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why use MT, when you can hear them?
Not to mention that for the cost of MT you can get both lv. 1 weaps and lv. 1 armor.
And lv. 1 armor is much better than MT and lv. 1 weaps put together, so I don't think you are correct.
this is in reply to the first thread... if it was argued down i'm sorry, but i dont feel like reading 3 pages because i'm a ****. anyways...
actually weapons one can be better. If i know my team isn't very good in a pub server, then i'm obviously getting armor 1 first. But weapons 1 can be alot better if you trust your marines.
And armor 1 does not boost your marine life by 50%, it helps them take an extra bite. Any good comm will drop meds to good marines (ie: marines who can take out pub fades with an lmg and such as 8 medpacks).
The weapons one in that situation would be far better than armor 1, in which armor 1 might have not done anything.
Please do not make a post in which you think you are 100% right when you are not. You obviously have not thoroughly thought out your post.
I do get armor 1 nearly all the time though(i'd probably say 19/20 games commed), but weapons 1 is better in some situations.
so really, armor 1 is helpful if you know all your marines are complete crap and are not even worth the medpack. If you have good marines and good skulks, then the marines will nearly always win except for ambushes(which are extremely common too)... weapons 1 is a matter of trust in your marines. If you know that they are gonna jump the right way because of their crazy **** sound system and that weapons 1 will kill them .3 seconds quicker saving you from dropping a medpack, then go ahead.
Seeing as how i normally(ok sometimes) play with good marines, the armor 1 upgrade doesn't always help. Most of the time they will get bit once, and dropping a medpack compltely negates the armor 1 effect unless they were bitten twice. And the kill the skulk before they get to you is entirely true... jumping in circles and switching directions and jumping over them works alot in lengthning your life time... all good battles will most likely have the marine run out a clip, then a medpack might be dropped to keep him alive for him to reload and kill him quicker. the armor 1 isn't helpful in that situation because you need to keep your marines alive. Armor 1 also doesn't help at all vs gorges, because i'm willing to drop 5 medpacks to kill one gorge to put a blow into the aliens. When the marine gets to half life, i'm dropping a medpack. Once the goregs are dead, i'll drop medpacks. Only in a rare situation will that armor 1 have done ANYTHING... weapons 1 would save money because he would be able to kill the gorge.
Stop making these dumb threads.
Whenever i'm not playing with 2/3+ of people i can trust, its armor 1. Thx. That's 95% of the time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> So armor 1 is normally better but dont say it always is... thanks...
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 31 2003, 08:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2003, 08:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--taboofires+Oct 30 2003, 07:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Oct 30 2003, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> While I won't debate the incredible boost armor 1 gives you, it isn't always the best choice for first upgrade.?0„2
In the early game, when marines are cabable of dominating by virtue of ranged attacks, weapons 1 can make a significant difference, enough to preven the marines from getting hit much at all, and not giving the armor much use.?0„2 The overwhelming benefits only last a few minutes (until the kharaa can get upgrades well established, basically), so if you're going to get weapons first, put the preasure on!
But yes, unless you have a particularly aggressive very early game strat you want to accomplish, armor 1 is better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was waiting for this type of argument, that basically says weapons 1 is better because it's "situational".
Let me be the first to tell you: WRONG!
In this case, it's only simple math which will prove that armor 1 is better.
The reason? 1 bullet less to kill a skulk, versus 1 more bite to kill you...
The fact is, that in the time it takes to bite you, you can easily get out 3-5 bullets.
So not only is it a defensive upgrade, but as the saying goes, "the best offense is a good defense". And it's true. You actually deal more damage with lv. 1 armor in a 1v1 fight. By living longer, you can deal more damage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> forlorn....how do you know you will live longer? most good marines will have to use up a clip of lmg if the other skulk is ambushing, as in the situation you are describing...
uh weapons 1 is obviously better in hallways, where many skulks are killed.
stop making these arguments like you know everything... who says you're going to get bit again if you kill him one bullet sooner? I'd rather save the 2 res with weapons 1 because he didn't get bit
and most of the time its rather worth it to give your marines medpacks (situational), negating armor 1 completely after its first 2-bite affect. If a medpack is dropped after one bite, which often happens to skilled marines that can take out gorges, armor 1 was completely negated.
Armor 1 isn't as easily replaced because you need welders, while weapons 1 can last the length of a clip which is normally better.
Weapons 1 can also take out buildings easier (O chambers). Armor 1 is also pretty good for those rambo marines which i dont support much. I will drop them 2 meds if they survive, but i wont constantly med them. That's the only situation really where armor 1 benefits, but they shouldn't be ramboing anyways and if i didn't instruct them too, they probably wont kill the skulk. I'd save them if they were hitting a gorge, but armor 1 would be uneffective in that situation. The rest of the marines should be moving in a gruop, and in groups i drop meds because keeping the group is good. Those situations, armor 1 hardly does anything. And weapons 1 would add to the overall quick killing of skulks.
If you are in a group and you get bit twice, you're going to get bit a third time because they have to be in such a good position to single out that one marine. So medpacks would be needed, and then you'd need welders to supply your armor 1 upgrade.
Please dont say armor 1 is the best in all situations. It is very effective if your team cannot use teamwork effectivly and you have no good rambo marines, then armor 1 will save your ****. Just... please... stop saying armor 1 is effective and dont make dumb arguments like "ONE BIET SI WORHT MERO DEN OEN BUELELT!11..."
god forlorn that was kind of dumb(just kind of, not trying to be mean) to say someone is compeltely WRONG... that was obviously not a fact and he even said he wouldn't debate the incredible boost armor 1 gave. He said it wasn't *always* the best choice, meaning he agreed it was the best in some cases. Why did you have to go ahead and say he was WRONG by backing him up with faulty information (one bite which is melee is worth more than one bullet).. maybe that one bullet will kill the skulk before the skulk gets a bite? Please dont say he's wrong when it was obviously a good opinion and good thinking on game mechanics and having an open mind to different stratagies. Thanks.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And armor 1 does not boost your marine life by 50%, it helps them take an extra bite. Any good comm will drop meds to good marines (ie: marines who can take out pub fades with an lmg and such as 8 medpacks).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1 of out of 2 is 50%. 1/2. Basic math.
Anyway, funny story today unrelated to anyones post but the first. I told the commander, "plz get armor 1 and I'll luv you" and he researched weps 1. People laugh haha very funny. The comm jumped out of the chair for a second (to build something I guess) and I jumped in, canceled weps 1 and put arm 1 in there. Very funny. Admin was on and didn't care. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
He didn't cancel, probably didn't notice. Me <--- stealth commander.
<!--QuoteBegin--n33b+Nov 4 2003, 07:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (n33b @ Nov 4 2003, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> god forlorn that was kind of dumb(just kind of, not trying to be mean) to say someone is compeltely WRONG... that was obviously not a fact and he even said he wouldn't debate the incredible boost armor 1 gave. He said it wasn't *always* the best choice, meaning he agreed it was the best in some cases. Why did you have to go ahead and say he was WRONG by backing him up with faulty information (one bite which is melee is worth more than one bullet).. maybe that one bullet will kill the skulk before the skulk gets a bite? Please dont say he's wrong when it was obviously a good opinion and good thinking on game mechanics and having an open mind to different stratagies. Thanks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He was wrong, and indeed you are as well.
Do you have any understanding of basic math? The one extra bullet less lv. 1 weaps give is <b>negligible.</b> Like I said earlier, you take 1 more bite which easily gives you enough time for 4-5 more bullets to be shot off. The 1 extra bullet helps, but not as much as armor lv. 1. And this is why armor lv. 1 is "right", simply cause it gives a defensive boost as well as allowing you to fire off more bullets, and therefore is an offensive boost as well.
Open mind to different strategies? There are different strategies, however, I know in some cases that certain desicions are better than others. For example, advocating a knife only strat, while orginal, is hardly feasible.
Other strategies, such as weaps before armor may sound nice, but they are much like a knife only strat, except harder to see. Thanks for having such an open mind.
Honestly it depends on the situation and what kind of team you are up against. If your team is great aim, and are holding their own, no reason to go for armor 1 off the bat, take advantage of that. But if they are getting owned left and right, then armor 1 is a great option, when i command its all up to what is going on, sometimes i go armor first, sometimes i go weps, othertimes i dont even go upgrades at all until like 5 minutes into the game, it all depends on what strategy i am going for.
One of the major differences in the effectiveness of wep1 and arm1 is that a marine needing 1 less bullet to kill a skulk has very little if any impact on how long it takes to kill it, since you end up hitting the skulk with 2-3 bullets after it dies anyway, whereas skulks take 50% longer to kill a marine, which can, especially if the marine being ambushed is not alone, mean the difference between life and death. To put it another way, 1 marine is less likely to die between hitting the skulk with bullets 10 and 11 than a skulk is between bites 2 and 3.
But, of course, if most of your marines are not being killed in situations where armor 1 would save them (i.e. they only get killed when they are ambushed by twice as many skulks) then maybe holding off on armor 1 and just going for wep 2 faster may be better. Then again, I can't comm at all, and I hardly notice when we get ups, so...
The ONLY reason I can think of to get weapons 1 first would be to get to weapons 2 earlier to take down early fades. But I would NEVER do it as commander... I mean, unless your teammates never once die to skulks...
<!--QuoteBegin--Doobie Dan+Nov 6 2003, 05:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Doobie Dan @ Nov 6 2003, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The ONLY reason I can think of to get weapons 1 first would be to get to weapons 2 earlier to take down early fades. But I would NEVER do it as commander... I mean, unless your teammates never once die to skulks... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you have any idea of how easy it is for a fade to kill a marine if he doesn't have lv. 1 armor at the very least?
No real argument here... the only reason to really go Wep upgrade early is to support an already dominating shotty rush so that your rines can kill the hive faster; even then it is a tough decision... and often in that situation I tend to armor up first.
Well I use to be a lvl 1 ammo comm but for the most part I do lvl1 armor now.Why? Because if your firing down a hallway the marine has time to kill the skulk making a ammo up grade somewhat redundant if on the otherhand its a tight skirmish it will buy the marine a bit more time maybe to reload or change weapon get more distance.An early fade just gets the shotgun teatment.
The only time I make sure I get an ammo upgrade first is if the team is locking down hives right off the bat -ARMOR UPGRADES MEAN NOTHING TO A SENTRY and if your a turret farmer youd better get ammo upgrade asap skulks have no prob living through killing that one sentry which will give him a blind spot to exploit.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> Help a skulk is eating me!
Killing a hive faster with a shotty rush is the only decent reason I have seen so far for w1 before a1. I think someone said earlier that weapon ups don't affect turrets. Has anyone tested to see for sure? They did in 1.04, but it may have changed in 2.x.
Comments
Three bites is a big diffrence then two. Usually, with 2 bites the marines can go 1 on 1 with a sulk. If the sulk wins, chances are he is hurting. That extra bite usually means your rines come out the victors.
However,
level 2 armor generally doesn't affect anything since it's still 3 bites. Only leve 3 armor really changes anything. When I command, I usually get that detrimental level 1 armor, then max out weapons, then armor. xtra weapon damage is awesome, but for gods sake, I want that level 1 upgrade first!
But why would any of that matter? Even more willingy i would like to know why would that be wrong? Cause you say so? Well be my guest and join the line of arrogants. Everyone has their own way to play games. Not everyone is going to do what someone else thinks is the best. You say you think Armor 1 is the best? Good for you, i can only agree to disagree.
If you want to get mathmetic, make a guide. Dont claim that your oppinion is the "right" way.
But why would any of that matter? Even more willingy i would like to know why would that be wrong? Cause you say so? Well be my guest and join the line of arrogants. Everyone has their own way to play games. Not everyone is going to do what someone else thinks is the best. You say you think Armor 1 is the best? Good for you, i can only agree to disagree.
If you want to get mathmetic, make a guide. Dont claim that your oppinion is the "right" way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're exactly the reason I posted. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I won't bother pointing out the flaws in your statement, I'm sure you can figure them out by yourself if you think about it for a while.
But why would any of that matter? Even more willingy i would like to know why would that be wrong? Cause you say so? Well be my guest and join the line of arrogants. Everyone has their own way to play games. Not everyone is going to do what someone else thinks is the best. You say you think Armor 1 is the best? Good for you, i can only agree to disagree.
If you want to get mathmetic, make a guide. Dont claim that your oppinion is the "right" way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they can't aim, then they will be bit. If they will be bit, then it would be best for them to take as many bites as possible. You wonder why you are losing games? It's fairly obvious if you ask me.
If your marines live longer, they fire off more bullets. It more than pays off than the 1 extra bullet weapons 1 gives. Why is this so hard to understand?
I like it when I go early fade and it takes a measly two swipes to kill them, makes my job a hellava lot easier.
If your marines live longer, they fire off more bullets. It more than pays off than the 1 extra bullet weapons 1 gives. Why is this so hard to understand? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, Excuse me, but who said im loosing my games?
Second, There are viable tactics to use in NS. I use which i think is the best. But why oh why should it be soo almighty "right" way to play the game if punch of people on these forums say so?
Stoneburg, please oh please point out my "flaws". Im more than eager to hear whats on your silly little mind.
Its also generally agreed that by the time fades come on the scene you really should have both upgrades done, if not weapons 2 already in the works. Armor 1 first can help you in this regard as well: directly, since it takes an extra swipe from fades to drop a marine; indirectly, since Armor 1 will help keep your marines alive and deny aliens resources from kills so they can't pull the early fade.
Try it for a couple games and see what difference it makes. I find that as a marine the early level 1 upgrade helps keep me alive so our team can take more territory. As an alien, Armor 1 means you have to focus a bit on one player to take them down, making the "wildly jump around a group of marines and bite like crazy" technique less effective since its harder to kill anyone even though you deal lots of damage.
I'm sure there are some circumstances where weapons 1 would make a better upgrade. Probably those big concrete box type of maps where the aliens simply don't have any place to hide and most engagements are at medium to long range. But for the most part, armor 1 seems to be the better way to go.
The Question Stoneburg made;
<b>Armor Or Weapon Upgrades First?</b>
My Answer;
It depends on the map, but i will most likely go with weapons first. To get 2nd level weapons asap.
Why?
Cause 2nd level weapons help alot, Maybe more or less than 1 level armor in the beginning. It helps my troops who go in groups deal skulks/gorges/lerks/fades/onos's alot easier, im not so worried about the armor, since if its a close call. I can always medspam them abit to help. Sure it may be abit cheaper to upgrade armors first, but then my troops wouldnt have those damaging weapons, or if they would. They would have them too late. IMHO in start of the rounds, fast weapon upgrades is the way to go. But hey thats just me.
The thing im arguing about here;
To me, this thread and some posts here claim that teching 1 level armor is the "right" way. I cannot whole heartly understand why or yet how you can claim so. Sure you have valid reasons behind your opinions. But you still dont have some ûber powers to claim that it is the "right" way to tech.
There, hope this is clear enough.
A short story: I played now some days on TDA DOD 3rdNS server
As soldier i realised AUs, the games took too long eg 40 mins and it was boring.
I went comm some times handling out Wus first, me gots boring by electro rts and dropping some medpacks, i not needed to scan just some medpacks, really boring ****. Not to mention half team was nap but they attacked.
And evry1 was happy to have me as their comm, i dunno why but it must be their frustration when they die due to a skulk within not 3 bites.
and i think the lack of the aliens to keep rushing as skulks is the failure in their systems, marines get many rfk, marines have too much time , marines are allowed to kill evry rt, and they see no early-fades.
The gorgs died often noone build dcs more sens than dcs. and u dont need wus vor this sort of (early)fade.
If some1 could pls tell me the best server on GB ? ( i would be happy )
Why use MT, when you can hear them?
Not to mention that for the cost of MT you can get both lv. 1 weaps and lv. 1 armor.
And lv. 1 armor is much better than MT and lv. 1 weaps put together, so I don't think you are correct.
actually weapons one can be better. If i know my team isn't very good in a pub server, then i'm obviously getting armor 1 first. But weapons 1 can be alot better if you trust your marines.
And armor 1 does not boost your marine life by 50%, it helps them take an extra bite. Any good comm will drop meds to good marines (ie: marines who can take out pub fades with an lmg and such as 8 medpacks).
The weapons one in that situation would be far better than armor 1, in which armor 1 might have not done anything.
Please do not make a post in which you think you are 100% right when you are not. You obviously have not thoroughly thought out your post.
I do get armor 1 nearly all the time though(i'd probably say 19/20 games commed), but weapons 1 is better in some situations.
so really, armor 1 is helpful if you know all your marines are complete crap and are not even worth the medpack. If you have good marines and good skulks, then the marines will nearly always win except for ambushes(which are extremely common too)... weapons 1 is a matter of trust in your marines. If you know that they are gonna jump the right way because of their crazy **** sound system and that weapons 1 will kill them .3 seconds quicker saving you from dropping a medpack, then go ahead.
Seeing as how i normally(ok sometimes) play with good marines, the armor 1 upgrade doesn't always help. Most of the time they will get bit once, and dropping a medpack compltely negates the armor 1 effect unless they were bitten twice. And the kill the skulk before they get to you is entirely true... jumping in circles and switching directions and jumping over them works alot in lengthning your life time... all good battles will most likely have the marine run out a clip, then a medpack might be dropped to keep him alive for him to reload and kill him quicker. the armor 1 isn't helpful in that situation because you need to keep your marines alive. Armor 1 also doesn't help at all vs gorges, because i'm willing to drop 5 medpacks to kill one gorge to put a blow into the aliens. When the marine gets to half life, i'm dropping a medpack. Once the goregs are dead, i'll drop medpacks. Only in a rare situation will that armor 1 have done ANYTHING... weapons 1 would save money because he would be able to kill the gorge.
Stop making these dumb threads.
Whenever i'm not playing with 2/3+ of people i can trust, its armor 1. Thx. That's 95% of the time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> So armor 1 is normally better but dont say it always is... thanks...
In the early game, when marines are cabable of dominating by virtue of ranged attacks, weapons 1 can make a significant difference, enough to preven the marines from getting hit much at all, and not giving the armor much use.?0„2 The overwhelming benefits only last a few minutes (until the kharaa can get upgrades well established, basically), so if you're going to get weapons first, put the preasure on!
But yes, unless you have a particularly aggressive very early game strat you want to accomplish, armor 1 is better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was waiting for this type of argument, that basically says weapons 1 is better because it's "situational".
Let me be the first to tell you: WRONG!
In this case, it's only simple math which will prove that armor 1 is better.
The reason? 1 bullet less to kill a skulk, versus 1 more bite to kill you...
The fact is, that in the time it takes to bite you, you can easily get out 3-5 bullets.
So not only is it a defensive upgrade, but as the saying goes, "the best offense is a good defense". And it's true. You actually deal more damage with lv. 1 armor in a 1v1 fight. By living longer, you can deal more damage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
forlorn....how do you know you will live longer? most good marines will have to use up a clip of lmg if the other skulk is ambushing, as in the situation you are describing...
uh weapons 1 is obviously better in hallways, where many skulks are killed.
stop making these arguments like you know everything... who says you're going to get bit again if you kill him one bullet sooner? I'd rather save the 2 res with weapons 1 because he didn't get bit
and most of the time its rather worth it to give your marines medpacks (situational), negating armor 1 completely after its first 2-bite affect. If a medpack is dropped after one bite, which often happens to skilled marines that can take out gorges, armor 1 was completely negated.
Armor 1 isn't as easily replaced because you need welders, while weapons 1 can last the length of a clip which is normally better.
Weapons 1 can also take out buildings easier (O chambers). Armor 1 is also pretty good for those rambo marines which i dont support much. I will drop them 2 meds if they survive, but i wont constantly med them. That's the only situation really where armor 1 benefits, but they shouldn't be ramboing anyways and if i didn't instruct them too, they probably wont kill the skulk. I'd save them if they were hitting a gorge, but armor 1 would be uneffective in that situation. The rest of the marines should be moving in a gruop, and in groups i drop meds because keeping the group is good. Those situations, armor 1 hardly does anything. And weapons 1 would add to the overall quick killing of skulks.
If you are in a group and you get bit twice, you're going to get bit a third time because they have to be in such a good position to single out that one marine. So medpacks would be needed, and then you'd need welders to supply your armor 1 upgrade.
Please dont say armor 1 is the best in all situations. It is very effective if your team cannot use teamwork effectivly and you have no good rambo marines, then armor 1 will save your ****. Just... please... stop saying armor 1 is effective and dont make dumb arguments like "ONE BIET SI WORHT MERO DEN OEN BUELELT!11..."
god forlorn that was kind of dumb(just kind of, not trying to be mean) to say someone is compeltely WRONG... that was obviously not a fact and he even said he wouldn't debate the incredible boost armor 1 gave. He said it wasn't *always* the best choice, meaning he agreed it was the best in some cases. Why did you have to go ahead and say he was WRONG by backing him up with faulty information (one bite which is melee is worth more than one bullet).. maybe that one bullet will kill the skulk before the skulk gets a bite? Please dont say he's wrong when it was obviously a good opinion and good thinking on game mechanics and having an open mind to different stratagies. Thanks.
1 of out of 2 is 50%. 1/2. Basic math.
Anyway, funny story today unrelated to anyones post but the first. I told the commander, "plz get armor 1 and I'll luv you" and he researched weps 1. People laugh haha very funny. The comm jumped out of the chair for a second (to build something I guess) and I jumped in, canceled weps 1 and put arm 1 in there. Very funny. Admin was on and didn't care. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
He didn't cancel, probably didn't notice. Me <--- stealth commander.
EDITED
He was wrong, and indeed you are as well.
Do you have any understanding of basic math? The one extra bullet less lv. 1 weaps give is <b>negligible.</b> Like I said earlier, you take 1 more bite which easily gives you enough time for 4-5 more bullets to be shot off. The 1 extra bullet helps, but not as much as armor lv. 1. And this is why armor lv. 1 is "right", simply cause it gives a defensive boost as well as allowing you to fire off more bullets, and therefore is an offensive boost as well.
Open mind to different strategies? There are different strategies, however, I know in some cases that certain desicions are better than others. For example, advocating a knife only strat, while orginal, is hardly feasible.
Other strategies, such as weaps before armor may sound nice, but they are much like a knife only strat, except harder to see. Thanks for having such an open mind.
You feeling okay?
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
But, of course, if most of your marines are not being killed in situations where armor 1 would save them (i.e. they only get killed when they are ambushed by twice as many skulks) then maybe holding off on armor 1 and just going for wep 2 faster may be better. Then again, I can't comm at all, and I hardly notice when we get ups, so...
Do you have any idea of how easy it is for a fade to kill a marine if he doesn't have lv. 1 armor at the very least?
The only time I make sure I get an ammo upgrade first is if the team is locking down hives right off the bat -ARMOR UPGRADES MEAN NOTHING TO A SENTRY and if your a turret farmer youd better get ammo upgrade asap skulks have no prob living through killing that one sentry which will give him a blind spot to exploit.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> Help a skulk is eating me!
lol..
in my personal opinion, armor one is better. when 2.1 focus comes out this will probably change considerably, but who knows.
i guess this is armor x454,324,003..... ?