Ok here comes my opinion on maps, first off bast...
Yes the marine start can be quite frustrating but that vent that everyone complains about two words, mines and turrets. This vent is very easily locked down and here you create a choke point at main aft to asault all three hives.
You need to go thru a hive before you get to refinery? NOT TRUE! You have the lift from main aft and the ladder going thru cockpit to catwalk. You see that already some ppl who play a map immediatly kick up a stink sayingthat this map is so shite i wont bother figuring it out. Bast, great map although starting at feed is a very good start for aliens due to the proximity to atmosphere.
Tanith : Yeah i can understand waste bein a prob but lerks are very effective at taking this hive before a tech rush due to overwhelming spore attacks and umbra if theyve got it for skulks. All hives can be seiged from vents too! Despite fusion being the only hive to seige from a vent, waste and sat comm can be softened up very easily, and mines keep out the riff raff <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I also dont see a prob with dbl res on this map, it may be close to marine spawn but it takes alot to lock down with a vent and two other ways to get in, the reactors are enough cover for skulks to leap into the action.
Lost : Although im split on this, it always seems that los paranoia or equilibrium arwe the only viable relocation areas to lock down a hive, in order to get to cargo you need to go perilously close to other hives. You complain about mineshaft being a long hallway?? one look at this map mate, despite the vent system getting an alien to any part of the map which is really what cheeses me off. It doenst matter where you go if u relocate there is always a vent that comes in and you will get either spore spammed or a hail of 6 skulks in a charge. Not good in any map despite me being a alien player, i still dont like this huge advantage that seems unfair to aliens.
Mineshaft : THIS MAP ROCKS!!!! Relo to u turn and you have drilling, 2 rts and in a prime position for a charge to dbl. Despite the marine spawn being too bad ( there is essentially only ONE way out and once boxed the gls come out and an hour later aliens finally kill all marines to have beacon pulled on them over and over.....) The vent system is effective for hit and ru ntactics that i employ as a skulk, and the maps may be hallways but if you dont use the roof then you arent playing aliens very easily. Get larger creatures t o draw fire then skulks drop from the roof. THis tactic is VERY effective. As for marines, once you get out of the spawn your fine, dunno what al lthe fuss is about.
Eclipse: although i dont like the changes to this map vey much, i lied the older map better but it is very workable. Got no qualms here except the sheer difficulty in taking their base having to go all the way accross before hitting the steps to go up. Usually take a pounding as a fade or onos and skulks have no chance... This is with turtling t farms etc though.
Veil : get rid of weldables that can be parad open ( only takes one tick of a box ffs) and im happy here.
Hera - OMG ! MAKE THE LOW GRAV ROOM ACCESSIBLE TO ONOSES!!! Despite bieng hidden it rocks my sox big time! Double seige points i dont like but it is well blanced despite what some ppl say, relo to reception, take archiving and weld the vents there. Seige dbl and you have the perfect outfit to tech rush and take delta, weld vents. Rinse, wash, repeat. Very atmospheric, i luv this map ( in a non sexual way) Although i luv tanith in a sexual way <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I may of missed a fe maps/points good or bad but i only just woke up, its fukn 7 in the mornin over here in australia, dunno why im up so early...
<!--QuoteBegin--me23+Nov 4 2003, 11:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (me23 @ Nov 4 2003, 11:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> More of a bug than a gameplay problem:
In that map with generator (not the one with the generator hive, but the one with the big pit in the middle of the room), there's a walkway up there, and it's simply impossible to kill anything that sits up there, without using GLs or jetpacks... The grating of the walkway should be shoot-throughable. and stuff. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not eclipse- the hives are: Cargo, Viaduct, Powersilo. (tanith or nothing?)
It's in Generator room. This room has a large doorway/opening on one end, the other end is a tiny "z" shaped hall with an elevator that leads to Viaduct. Generator room has a small circular bottomless pit in the middle. There's a resnode on the left corner (looking at the big doorway) and above that is a balcony that is not accesible without gravity defying physics (flying, leaping, jp, blink). If you crouch up there as anything that can reach it, you can't get hit.
My personal things-I-don't-particularly-like list for the current official NS maps:
<b>Mineshaft</b> At first I didn't like this one, but after playing it for a couple of times I think it's just fine. My two problems with it are: 1) The fact that even though it looks cramped, it's actually very open, which is annoying for skulks. 2) U-Turn as a commander. Too far down, that one. Everything's pretty small there, and if you've ever built an obs there and tried to click it, I guess you should know what I mean. Also, sometimes it seems impossible to upgrade turret factories, kind of like in 1.04 Eclipse.
<b>Bast</b> Marine start is a joke, and trying to get around the map as an onos is a surprisingly painful task.
<b>Hera</b> Why are the first RTs next to marine spawn a marathon distance away? Also, relocation seems required here in order to stand a chance.
<b>Lost</b> Just get rid of the weldable RT door and light up the marine spawn a bit. It helps the commander if he can actually see what he has already built.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Z.X. Bogglesteinsky+Nov 4 2003, 03:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky @ Nov 4 2003, 03:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> as a onos, i have never had any problems with ladders if you crouch as you climb them.
ns_caged has got some serious pathway issues. especially if you turn left out of MS you can only go to generator. All aliens need to do with generator hive to deny marines the whole map is to hold the small hallways to the right of MS. Atleas put some vents through to central processing
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Is it even possbile for a marine to go from marine start or processing to upper sewer, I m pretty sure that alrge pipe over that small stair case is too small even for crouched onos.
ns_lost: I don't like it because this map is not balanced. If the aliens don't have the alpha hive they lose. In my little statistic marines win on lost 87%.
ns_bast: Relocate to main aft owns aliens. The problem on pub servers is that half of the marine team run to atmo, ignoring any command because "they know how to play this map"... I really hate that as commander.
the new 2.1 maps: wait and see <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Some of them seems to be extremly marine friendly IMHO. But they are not final...
Just to chip in in favour of distinctive, complex maps. I'm not a huge fan of eclipse, veil and tanith (v2 - it was better when it still had all its doors and lifts). Okay, they play great, but they're a little bland for my taste.
Now Bast rocks - every single space on the map is creatively designed and it has a vent system to die for. I want to see more originality like that. Okay, the more complicated a map is, the potentially harder it is to balance; but if we wanted things simple to balance, we wouldn't be playing marine versus alien, would we?
I really don't want to see future mapmakers creating an endless stream of eclipse-a-likes, nice as they are. I want mapmakers to be able to take creative risks and not get an endless stream of flak from people who can't handle the result. I respect and admire anyone with the skill and creativity to fabricate something as sophisticated as Bast, and I would love to see such maps get the appreciation they deserve.
<!--QuoteBegin--Fieari+Nov 4 2003, 03:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ Nov 4 2003, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who hates mineshaft? I haven't seen any malice towards it... MAYBE marine start could be opened up a little, but overall, the map seems balanced to me.
Hera also seems fine to me... the double seige is a well know strategic point, and can be defended against and assaulted... besides, you need to spot or ping, and while the double seige point can be seiged with one TF, you need more than one seige cannon. And you need to build more than one seige per hive target, usually, otherwise you'll fail. That's a LOT OF RES, all for a point the aliens all know exist and will be throwing everything they've got at you.
The only real problems with bast are the pathetic marine start and refinery hive. Make the marine start more marine friendly, refinery more alien friendly, and I'd say the map is fixed.
The elevators on nothing are part of the balance of nothing. They're designed to be a trap to whoever uses them, and I think I like them that way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> a lot of people dislike mineshaft in its current state, including me. i can't agree with his comments about bast though. well, i do dislike atmos.
hera needs fixed. processing is still a double siege point.
Comments
Yes the marine start can be quite frustrating but that vent that everyone complains about two words, mines and turrets. This vent is very easily locked down and here you create a choke point at main aft to asault all three hives.
You need to go thru a hive before you get to refinery? NOT TRUE! You have the lift from main aft and the ladder going thru cockpit to catwalk. You see that already some ppl who play a map immediatly kick up a stink sayingthat this map is so shite i wont bother figuring it out. Bast, great map although starting at feed is a very good start for aliens due to the proximity to atmosphere.
Tanith : Yeah i can understand waste bein a prob but lerks are very effective at taking this hive before a tech rush due to overwhelming spore attacks and umbra if theyve got it for skulks. All hives can be seiged from vents too! Despite fusion being the only hive to seige from a vent, waste and sat comm can be softened up very easily, and mines keep out the riff raff <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I also dont see a prob with dbl res on this map, it may be close to marine spawn but it takes alot to lock down with a vent and two other ways to get in, the reactors are enough cover for skulks to leap into the action.
Lost : Although im split on this, it always seems that los paranoia or equilibrium arwe the only viable relocation areas to lock down a hive, in order to get to cargo you need to go perilously close to other hives. You complain about mineshaft being a long hallway?? one look at this map mate, despite the vent system getting an alien to any part of the map which is really what cheeses me off. It doenst matter where you go if u relocate there is always a vent that comes in and you will get either spore spammed or a hail of 6 skulks in a charge. Not good in any map despite me being a alien player, i still dont like this huge advantage that seems unfair to aliens.
Mineshaft : THIS MAP ROCKS!!!! Relo to u turn and you have drilling, 2 rts and in a prime position for a charge to dbl. Despite the marine spawn being too bad ( there is essentially only ONE way out and once boxed the gls come out and an hour later aliens finally kill all marines to have beacon pulled on them over and over.....) The vent system is effective for hit and ru ntactics that i employ as a skulk, and the maps may be hallways but if you dont use the roof then you arent playing aliens very easily. Get larger creatures t o draw fire then skulks drop from the roof. THis tactic is VERY effective. As for marines, once you get out of the spawn your fine, dunno what al lthe fuss is about.
Eclipse: although i dont like the changes to this map vey much, i lied the older map better but it is very workable. Got no qualms here except the sheer difficulty in taking their base having to go all the way accross before hitting the steps to go up. Usually take a pounding as a fade or onos and skulks have no chance... This is with turtling t farms etc though.
Veil : get rid of weldables that can be parad open ( only takes one tick of a box ffs) and im happy here.
Hera - OMG ! MAKE THE LOW GRAV ROOM ACCESSIBLE TO ONOSES!!! Despite bieng hidden it rocks my sox big time! Double seige points i dont like but it is well blanced despite what some ppl say, relo to reception, take archiving and weld the vents there. Seige dbl and you have the perfect outfit to tech rush and take delta, weld vents. Rinse, wash, repeat. Very atmospheric, i luv this map ( in a non sexual way) Although i luv tanith in a sexual way <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I may of missed a fe maps/points good or bad but i only just woke up, its fukn 7 in the mornin over here in australia, dunno why im up so early...
In that map with generator (not the one with the generator hive, but the one with the big pit in the middle of the room), there's a walkway up there, and it's simply impossible to kill anything that sits up there, without using GLs or jetpacks... The grating of the walkway should be shoot-throughable. and stuff. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not eclipse- the hives are: Cargo, Viaduct, Powersilo. (tanith or nothing?)
It's in Generator room. This room has a large doorway/opening on one end, the other end is a tiny "z" shaped hall with an elevator that leads to Viaduct. Generator room has a small circular bottomless pit in the middle. There's a resnode on the left corner (looking at the big doorway) and above that is a balcony that is not accesible without gravity defying physics (flying, leaping, jp, blink). If you crouch up there as anything that can reach it, you can't get hit.
<b>Mineshaft</b>
At first I didn't like this one, but after playing it for a couple of times I think it's just fine. My two problems with it are:
1) The fact that even though it looks cramped, it's actually very open, which is annoying for skulks.
2) U-Turn as a commander. Too far down, that one. Everything's pretty small there, and if you've ever built an obs there and tried to click it, I guess you should know what I mean. Also, sometimes it seems impossible to upgrade turret factories, kind of like in 1.04 Eclipse.
<b>Bast</b>
Marine start is a joke, and trying to get around the map as an onos is a surprisingly painful task.
<b>Hera</b>
Why are the first RTs next to marine spawn a marathon distance away? Also, relocation seems required here in order to stand a chance.
<b>Lost</b>
Just get rid of the weldable RT door and light up the marine spawn a bit. It helps the commander if he can actually see what he has already built.
ns_caged has got some serious pathway issues. especially if you turn left out of MS you can only go to generator. All aliens need to do with generator hive to deny marines the whole map is to hold the small hallways to the right of MS. Atleas put some vents through to central processing
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it even possbile for a marine to go from marine start or processing to upper sewer, I m pretty sure that alrge pipe over that small stair case is too small even for crouched onos.
A well
I miss NS_NANCY
ns_bast: Relocate to main aft owns aliens. The problem on pub servers is that half of the marine team run to atmo, ignoring any command because "they know how to play this map"... I really hate that as commander.
the new 2.1 maps: wait and see <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Some of them seems to be extremly marine friendly IMHO. But they are not final...
Now Bast rocks - every single space on the map is creatively designed and it has a vent system to die for. I want to see more originality like that. Okay, the more complicated a map is, the potentially harder it is to balance; but if we wanted things simple to balance, we wouldn't be playing marine versus alien, would we?
I really don't want to see future mapmakers creating an endless stream of eclipse-a-likes, nice as they are. I want mapmakers to be able to take creative risks and not get an endless stream of flak from people who can't handle the result. I respect and admire anyone with the skill and creativity to fabricate something as sophisticated as Bast, and I would love to see such maps get the appreciation they deserve.
Hera also seems fine to me... the double seige is a well know strategic point, and can be defended against and assaulted... besides, you need to spot or ping, and while the double seige point can be seiged with one TF, you need more than one seige cannon. And you need to build more than one seige per hive target, usually, otherwise you'll fail. That's a LOT OF RES, all for a point the aliens all know exist and will be throwing everything they've got at you.
The only real problems with bast are the pathetic marine start and refinery hive. Make the marine start more marine friendly, refinery more alien friendly, and I'd say the map is fixed.
The elevators on nothing are part of the balance of nothing. They're designed to be a trap to whoever uses them, and I think I like them that way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
a lot of people dislike mineshaft in its current state, including me. i can't agree with his comments about bast though. well, i do dislike atmos.
hera needs fixed. processing is still a double siege point.