Ehehehe

rabbitzrabbitz Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19328Members
<div class="IPBDescription">hehehehehe</div> O Added "catalysts" to marine tech tree!
O Research at arms lab, allows dropping of "cat-packs"
O A marine that touches pack, gives +25% movmement speed and +25% rate of fire for 8 seconds. The marine also takes damage equal to 25% of his max health, but it will never kill him.



stim-packs anyone?
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Comments

  • uranium_235uranium_235 Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9478Banned
    Old news. Very old news. Very discussed news. Very old, discussed to death, news.
  • civman2civman2 Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6116Members, Constellation
    they're like stim packs, but uselesser
  • Quantum_DuckQuantum_Duck Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21851Members, Constellation
    In their current form, cats are not useless. They are expensive and hurt marines, which limits when you want to use them. They are not general purpose. However, a good comm can drop them on a couple hmgs who can aim at a crucial moment and down a hive in seconds. Lets see how this all works out over the next few builds.
  • Anonymous_CowardAnonymous_Coward Join Date: 2003-08-15 Member: 19768Members
    It would be very very interesting to hear how cats are supposed to help a marine fire a full-auto HMG any faster.
  • MrMojoMrMojo Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9882Members, Constellation
    Well, for one thing, I feel like a celeritied skulk.
  • XiileXiile Join Date: 2003-02-22 Member: 13818Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Nov 9 2003, 02:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Nov 9 2003, 02:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Old news. Very old news. Very discussed news. Very old, discussed to death, news. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Shooting down topics isn't very nice... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • StoneburgStoneburg Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
    I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "topic". Two "heheheheheheheh" + an exerpt from the changelog. He must have put in a good 0.03 seconds of thought into that one.
  • GwahirGwahir Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Members, Constellation
    I like cat packs. The comm placed a few down during a hive attack and the aliens should have run instead of tried to defend. You never saw a faster assault.
  • TechenTechen Join Date: 2003-05-15 Member: 16340Members, Constellation
    Man, a shotgun rush would be crazy if they got to the hive. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    step 1) Get to hive
    step 2) Cat-Pack
    step 3) Shoot hive at outragous speeds, watch aliens cringe with fear.
    step 4) Profit!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    edited November 2003
    hey guysss.... Catpacks + Shotgun rush + <b>Lerks with NO FREKIN SPIKE</b> + more expensive fade (60) + Recycling unbuilt/built structures now gives 100%/50% resources back, instead of 80%/40%+ TF reduced from 15 to 10+ Armory reduced from 15 to 10 (2 more patches and it is free!) + Reduced motion-tracking cost from 45 to 35 + Marine team with a brain = aliens lose aliens lose aliens lose aliens lose.

    Add in the fact they fixed the alien hitboxes (They fortunetly upped Armor for fade and onos thanks Dev team, you own...) and Reduced HMG damage from 20 to 18... this upcoming patch is going to be shotgun rush heaven for all comms.

    The new routine for a winning marine team would be:

    Get shotguns, tell them to rush the hives constantly, upgrade lvl 1 armor then weapons till victory.

    A skilled medspam comm will make rines SHRED higher lifeforms... imagine 2 catpacked LA rines ripping an onos down in mere seconds... or 3... god it will be SAD!

    Fortunetly i thought up a counter stratigy for the aliens. MC first... it has to take Defense over as the main Alien chamber. We need silence and cerelity to take those Shottys down fast and hard. Maybe SC will work to if your team is a little organised. But for pubs with the usual amount of noobs, we need MC. Your gonna need lerk bite **** from 1.04 and alot of luck (spikes would be SOOOOOOO better... horrible timing). Spores is a 2nd slot weapon still i think, so all is not lost. 3 lerks should be able to spore a rine shotgun team into subission, but it will take time. the 2nd hive is gonna be the biggest thing... no more early fades... have one person save for onos and go straight for the 2nd hive. Your cerelity skulks love leap to get some limited flight capabilities... and silence leap-bite skulks are DEADLY, even WITH motion tracking (which will be used ALOT now because of the price decrease, and how awsome MT is with shotguns.). Get some onos, get Defense 2nd Unless your doing good with skulks and lerks (lerks are going to be used ALOT, even without spikes.... WHY WHY NOT SPIKES?!??!?)

    Lerks are better then fades for the usual pub team ( i know fade fans will tear up shotties, i've done it myself <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) because thier cheap, fast, long ranged very slightly (enough to want to be lerks), and supportive in nature. Lerks with cerelity skulks with make shotties die fast, especially with tons of spore spam... spore, everywhere on the level... make em die a slow death.



    Well i figured that would work the best... keep moving fast and keep those shotties on the ground. Same can be done with SC, but MC is much better in a two hive lockdown situation. Marines are in for a field day no matter what stratigy you use though <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Edit: one good thing though... another way you could do it is MC, then SC... i am sure it would work just as good as Defense... all you have to do is keep those shotties on the ground, it will slow the team's development, and keep their RFK to a minimum.
  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    edited November 2003
    lerks have almost no hitbox now, correct?
    their flaps dont count as "hittable"?

    but hey, lerk bite + focus [plus possible Sensory Chamber cloaking] kills a armor level 0-1 marine in 1 or 2 bites, right? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    RIGHT?!?! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • HyperionHyperion Hyperion2010 Join Date: 2003-10-06 Member: 21477Members
    uh, just like to point out that

    marine team with brain= aliens lose aliens lose aliens lose etc.
    very few marine teams have a brain

    i hope you understand that the reason they are making marines better is so that NOOBS can actually play marines (not really but their trying) and that is a GOOD THING aliens are already over blanced

    as to the fact that they are nerfing aliens ( i will simply discuss the lerk) i have to agree with the choices the dev team is making, spike is horribly over balanced, if it could only be used at one time to take a marine down to 50 health (w/o runnding out of energy) then maybe mabye it might be ok, but as a BASIC attack, it is WAY THE HELL, especially if spores are kick **** too, one has to go. I would also say that long corridors benifit the lerk more than the marine in 2.0 because of spike, simply, spike is too good for its price and level
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    You realise when you take alot away from one team (aliens), and then give alot to the other team (marines), that maybe the team you just gave alot to will be a little "overbalanced"?
  • NarfNarf Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2609Members
    hay guys i hear there is this new game called chess but it is totally unbalance, I mean the Queen can move anywhere it wants? That is bs and should be nerfed right away. I haven't played it ever but it is still unbalanced.
  • BOBDololBOBDolol Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21431Members
    But i thought they made motion tracking weaking too, so you won't see the blips on your screen, only on your minimap? Shotgun rushes usually only work when the alien team didn't see it coming. If they know its coming, they could prepare skulk ambushes and get a lerk or 2 for spores(which also makes it harder to medspam). I don't think that much has changed about shotgun rushes... since IF the alien team sees it coming, most of the rines would have already died from ambushes and the less rines there are, the less powerful the group is and the bigger chance the shotgun rush is gonna fail.
    MC first requires teamwork though, teamwork that you don't usually find in pub games.

    I think giving the onos more armor might not be enough though. you're right, 2 marines with catpacks will actually have a chance to take down an onos...

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well i figured that would work the best... keep moving fast and keep those shotties on the ground. Same can be done with SC, but MC is much better in a two hive lockdown situation. Marines are in for a field day no matter what stratigy you use though <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    DCS are the best chamber in a 2 hive lockdown situation <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    Chess has two identical teams... NS has two totally different teams...
  • HyperionHyperion Hyperion2010 Join Date: 2003-10-06 Member: 21477Members
    urg, possibly, it has happened in other games, however you have to make the game as if it were UBER NUB vs UBER NUB which makes it wierd, but its the only way becuase UbNubs are the only thing that is standard, what really matters tho is the COM, and you cant really tweek a com, because they are human, end of story.
  • evilopsevilops Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13494Members
    They've already upped the armour on fades and onos, but you don't trust them to make changes if what you say is true and marines are overpowered? (Trev)
  • ZelZel Join Date: 2003-01-27 Member: 12861Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Narf+Nov 9 2003, 06:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narf @ Nov 9 2003, 06:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hay guys i hear there is this new game called chess but it is totally unbalance, I mean the Queen can move anywhere it wants? That is bs and should be nerfed right away. I haven't played it ever but it is still unbalanced. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ROFLMAO new sig!
  • Quantum_DuckQuantum_Duck Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21851Members, Constellation
    Oddly enough, I believe the win ratio of normal NS games in the current build is something like 70% alien wins, varying somewhat by map. This could certainly be due to the fact that beta servers are rarely full and aliens have a pretty major advantange in 3 vs 3 games. And for some reason it seems to me that ns_delta has a really alien friendly layout, with marine start in the center of the map and the hives in a triangle around it... On the other hand, ns_ayumi seems marine friendly to me, so I guess we will see.

    Motion tracking was changed back to work the way it does in 2.01. The new motion tracking was a good idea, but it didn't work for combat mode, which has no map or minimap for either team.

    Unfortunately, due to the fixed hit boxes, 2 marines can already kill an onos with a couple upgrades. No hmg/shotties or cat packs needed. When onos are as tough as they should be, I think cats will be very usefull for bringing them down though.

    Lerk abilities may or may not end up as they are now. However, I've found lerks to be much more deadly to groups of marines with bite then they ever were with spike. Yes, focus lerk bite will kill an level 0-1 armor marine in one bite. Level 2-3 takes 2, if I recall correctly. Playing combat throws everything off due to the extra health per level thing. A group of lerks and skulks are quite effective at quickly dismanteling any HA that wander away from the train more the 3 steps. If they are smart enough to stay in a group, you should intercept with stomp while fades and lerks do the killing. Sadly, onos should stay out of the actual fighting at the moment, since they have a nastly tendency of getting hit by every bullet in the room and dying instantly.

    Cats may give marines a boost in such a fight, but they don't help you if you are stunned, and they are currently very expensive. I wouldn't worry about either team being excessively powerfull in 2.1. And if one is much better than the other, I'm sure it will be handled in another public beta to get 2.11. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • CEldinCEldin Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Members
    I think its interesting they chose to add cat packs. I like the idea because it gives marines more versatility, and tactical manuvering.

    PS: SG rushes are actually rather effective if you just have your rines run to the hive at the begining, drop an armory then pop shotguns up at their hive. That way they dont expect it, and you dont lose if you fail (failure generally occurs in the distance to the hive).
  • BOBDololBOBDolol Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21431Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Stung256+Nov 9 2003, 07:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Nov 9 2003, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> PS: SG rushes are actually rather effective if you just have your rines run to the hive at the begining, drop an armory then pop shotguns up at their hive. That way they dont expect it, and you dont lose if you fail (failure generally occurs in the distance to the hive). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow never thought of that! But i imagine it would still be pretty risky. Dropping an armory/8 shotties makes a pretty loud sound. Hm, gotta try that someday.
  • uranium_235uranium_235 Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9478Banned
    edited November 2003
    Why fix what isn't broken? What was the point of dropping the cost of armory, turret factory, and motion tracking, besides to make HA, HMGS, and all that show up about 2 minutes earlier now?

    $100 says they 'balance' it in their playtests, and it's going to be hell on aliens in pubs.

    I mean, where's the ability to recycle dropped alien buildings? Where's the ability to remove an upgrade? Where's an effective way for aliens to see in the dark? Where's the Hive 2 Fade ability that <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> ACTUALLY IS WORTHY OF HIVE 2? They got bite at the expense of spikes, and focus. Aliens weren't THAT overpowered.

    As for onos being stronger, hitbox aside, does this mean it'll actually *GASP* be able to survive two marines with level 3 LMGs?
  • XiileXiile Join Date: 2003-02-22 Member: 13818Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Trevelyan+Nov 9 2003, 08:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Nov 9 2003, 08:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Chess has two identical teams... NS has two totally different teams... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Jeez can anyone on this board take sarcasm anymore...
  • NarfNarf Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2609Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--XeroSlayer+Nov 9 2003, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XeroSlayer @ Nov 9 2003, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Trevelyan+Nov 9 2003, 08:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Nov 9 2003, 08:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Chess has two identical teams... NS has two totally different teams... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Jeez can anyone on this board take sarcasm anymore... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Apparently not.
  • Quantum_DuckQuantum_Duck Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21851Members, Constellation
    edited November 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Nov 9 2003, 05:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Nov 9 2003, 05:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for onos being stronger, hitbox aside, does this mean it'll actually *GASP* be able to survive two marines with level 3 LMGs? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Nope. One of the biggest current balance issues in my mind is the fact that an onos in that situation won't even get close enough to do damage unless he catches those 2 marines by surpise, eats one, and quickly kills the other. I think people never realized just how many bullets go through an onos without hitting it in 2.01. With 500 health and 400 armor(base) onos die in seconds under any kind of fire, even if you add carapace. I'm fairly certain they will be getting even stronger soon.

    As for marines being too powerful, that just isn't what I've seen so far. Right now I rarely see a marine team get more than 3 res nodes for any length of time. It's still very hard to finish off marines once they have some tech and turtle up somewhere, but that is primarily due to the fact that the onos just isn't viable as a base wreaker if there are actually marines in the base right now. I'm not too worried about it turning out fairly balanced. And if 2.1 isn't very balanced, 2.11, 2.2, or 3.0 will be better I'm sure.

    Basicly, the devs have two conflicting goals right now:
    1: Balance game
    2: Add new content

    The problem being that adding new content makes the game less balanced. Right now, lots of new stuff is going in, which throws everying we are used to off. So things change, and you can't always tell how it really effects balance until you see how it works with everything else. They are always trying to get better balance along the way, but I'm sure you know that Flayra still has a lot more basic content in mind before this game will be what he wants it to be. Once he's satisfied that all the features are in place, we can hope that there will still be more versions which move us from mostly balanced to well balanced.
  • TeoHTeoH Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11640Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    hay guys i hear there is this new game called chess but it is totally unbalance, I mean the Queen can move anywhere it wants? That is bs and should be nerfed right away. I haven't played it ever but it is still unbalanced.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ironically, he's right ;)

    Chess doesn't have identical sides, and isnt balanced at all in high level play.
  • uranium_235uranium_235 Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9478Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin--TeoH+Nov 9 2003, 10:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Nov 9 2003, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    hay guys i hear there is this new game called chess but it is totally unbalance, I mean the Queen can move anywhere it wants? That is bs and should be nerfed right away. I haven't played it ever but it is still unbalanced.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ironically, he's right <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Chess doesn't have identical sides, and isnt balanced at all in high level play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WTH kind of chess are you playing?
  • TeoHTeoH Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11640Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Nov 9 2003, 10:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Nov 9 2003, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> WTH kind of chess are you playing? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <img src='http://www.oclube.com/usuarios/teoh/chess.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

    This Chess.

    The Chess where <b>White always moves first</b>.

    You might not see that as very important when you're faffing around with your friends Star trek themed chess set, but the difference at high level play is significant. If you don't believe me, look for yourself: www.chessgames.com


    - 2003

    2,437 White wins
    1,722 Black wins
    2,859 Draws

    - 2002

    3,274 White wins
    2,317 Black wins
    3,051 Draws

    So, where were we?
  • Rush_Of_PeonsRush_Of_Peons Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13728Members
    i agree, get rid of A)spores
    or B)primal scream

    Both may be of use but with bite but no spike, it makes ranged attacks non existant (what? gorge killing a marine at a distance silently and quickly... i dont think so) So shotugn becomes the weapon of choice (anti-meelee seein that thats all they fear now) and catalyst wont be expensive to comms that know how to use em ( HA with med spam) The older lerk, despite being more fragile , was also more deadlier than the crappy POS thats there now. Although it may be very useful, primal scream hardly gets used unless the aliens have most of the mariens boxed in their base. Spikes is a effective anti-turret weapon and spores is devestating in enclosed areas, but make it a 2nd or 3rd hive ability to avoid spamming.

    Really, bite will rock as im able to cloak/silence kill marines but to lose spikes denies the aliens with their only anti-lmg/pistol spam.
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