Map diversity

Sgt_Bilko1Sgt_Bilko1 Join Date: 2002-02-02 Member: 150Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Diamond syndrome</div>I've noticed that most NS maps tend to have a common design theme, which is a diamond pattern with the three hives at three of the four points and the marine base at the last point. (if you picture it in your head in basic terms)

This isn't a bad thing, and by all accounts this system has created some extremely enjoyable map designs and good map flow, but I encourage map makers to think outside the box a bit to offer more diversified gameply.

Possible options -

-Tirangle with three hives at the points and the marine base at the center (have the ceiling be a dirt type tile with a hole in the top, marines dug down into an alien infestation (underground map? Anyone played Red faction?)

- One long map with three hive locations in a row and an optional train of some sort for fast transport between the longer distance hive locations to the marine base.

- Depth map: create a map with multiple ladder type landings and long tube shafts leading upwards, aim for height not width. This could be done quite easily as long as high map portions don't overlap low portions, picture it as a right triangle gometric shape with the obtuse angle facing up. (conceptually in structure and layers)

Just some random ideas, I know there are mapping guidelines to follow but a little diversity from the diamond syndrome would definitrly something worth looking at.



<!--EDIT|Sgt. Bilko|Aug. 29 2002,11:38-->

Comments

  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Bast is basicly a triangle type map.

    A linier map would be un-balanced depending on how far away the aliens spawn from the Marines.

    The problem with the deapth map is the commander mode, such great deapths make it unplayble to command at all hieghts.

    Nice try sarge.
  • WillowWillow Join Date: 2002-06-27 Member: 829Members
    Do we do a diamond pattern?
    I dont, i make layouts while i map and tend to make it as chaotic as my own mind....
  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    um, maybe a octagonal like map with the marines in the center "control room" style area?

    i think that that would be awsome, getting attaced from all sides, however, doors would have to be able to be welded shut/locked from the inside if the marines were to have any chance.

    if a octagon is too much trouble, then maybe a pentagon (going clock-wise) 12<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->0 would be aliens first hive, 5<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->0 and 7<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->0 would be hives 2 and 3 respectivly, marines would be at the center of the map with the spokes heading out of the center to the SIDES (not corners&#33<!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> of the map.

    would be interesting to see...
  • ZaziZazi Join Date: 2002-05-26 Member: 672Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Up with the diamond and down with capitalism!  Errrr... disregard that.   <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->



    P.S. Widow (meh mep) uses a diamond pattern, because its the most balanced.  Gameplay wise.
  • Sgt_Bilko1Sgt_Bilko1 Join Date: 2002-02-02 Member: 150Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    A linier map would be un-balanced depending on how far away the aliens spawn from the Marines.

    The problem with the deapth map is the commander mode, such great deapths make it unplayble to command at all hieghts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It all depends on how the map is designed; it could work quite well, as these types have in past games. Does it have to be a mile deep like you are implying? No, obviously that wouldn't work, duh.

    There are already maps with quite a bit of depth in NS that work perfectly fine, how about a little optimism here instead of pessimism?

    I’m trying to be beneficial with this post by trying to insert a little thought diversification in people’s minds. Anything can work if it’s done correctly; your thoughts are exactly the kind I want  to eliminate "It's impossible to do it this way..."

    Just take my commets with a grain of salt here, I'm not pointing fingers, the diamond pattern can work just fine.

    Balance based on an assumed shape is just a perception created by an assumed structre in map design, any shape could work really.



    <!--EDIT|Sgt. Bilko|Aug. 29 2002,15:03-->
  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I didn't mean to cast a downer on your ideas Sgt Bilko.  Variety is the spice of life and all.  I'm just trying to impart a word of caution, based on my experiences mapping for and playtesting NS.

    Maveric it sounds like your describing the triangle based layout to me.

    The diamond style is easiest to balance the gameplay, NS maps being difficult to balance at best, often taking may months (years even) I can't blame people for going for the easy option.
  • tommydtommyd Creator of ns_tanith, co_pulse and co_faceoff Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 40Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Developer
    my next map has a triangle-style layout: marine base at the center, one hive straight north, one hive southwest, the other southeast...  bast is somewhat like this (not exactly though)

    let's see how it works out
  • Relic25Relic25 Pixel Punk Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 39Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I think kraken will most definitely be a bit of a departure from the common layout.  All I can say at this point is that the marines had better move out quickly if they plan on surviving long. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
  • RhoadsToNowhereRhoadsToNowhere i r 8 Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 33Members
    You're such a tease, Relic.  <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • DeathWishDeathWish Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1211Members
    What you've got to be careful of is maps getting too complex - you've gotta be able to basically find your way around it within, say, 5 minutes of playing the map. If you start having complex shapes and a thousand-and-one corridors offshooting anywhere, you'll just get players lost rather than enabling them to play the map.

    Having said that, a little diversity never did anyone any harm - I'm waiting for a map set in a huge alien factory, which the marines have been ordered to infiltrate. That'd give some interesting mapping <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    Yep, exactly Deathwish.  As far as I can tell, the simpler and the brighter the map, the more popular.  It seems really straightforward like that (dust, 2fort, caen).

    If I had to guess, I would say the Kraken marine start floods immediately, causing them to evacuate to one of a few different starting points (trying to "encourage" less combat at the marine start).
  • KobraKobra Join Date: 2002-06-09 Member: 744Members
    Currently im workign on a map that will have an layout similiar to a tree. from the marine spawn the map branches out into separate routes while still being connected. i guess the shape would roughly be that of a triangle while having some depth into it, the further away you get from the marine spawn, the deeper you will go, literaly, and the darker the atmosphere will be, as it should be. everything to make sure the way to the alien areas will be easy to find even for a first timer. teh same goes for the other way around, the alien players will be able to find the marine spawn no matter which way  they choose to take. The big  challence however is to find the right way to use  during the current match as the best choice of routes may change everytime the map is played. What's a bit special about this map tho is the implentment of ways to interact more with the enviroment, giving the players more options while playing. All this is still STC tho and is currently under both planing and testing, but i'd be very happy if i could get it all to work as i want it. im a man with ambitions. it's my rising but it might become my fall.  <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
  • MerkabaMerkaba Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin--DeathWish+Aug. 30 2002,15:05--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (DeathWish @ Aug. 30 2002,15:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm waiting for a map set in a huge alien factory, which the marines have been ordered to infiltrate. That'd give some interesting mapping <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I can't see this happening in NS, at least, not yet. The alien's are not part of a civilisation and they do not construct anything beyond what they do with their own excretions. (Please excuse the rather gross connotations)

    So basically, there aren't any alien factorys, buildings, etc. Only human, or perhaps some other race's structures.

    I wouldn't mind seeing someone making an alien factory which was made by some unknown race tho...that'd be sweet
  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--Merkaba+Aug. 30 2002,21:20--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Merkaba @ Aug. 30 2002,21:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I wouldn't mind seeing someone making an alien factory which was made by some unknown race tho...that'd be sweet<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    hmmm... rather like the crashed ship in the first Alien movie.

    <!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->
  • BattousaixBattousaix Join Date: 2002-06-25 Member: 822Members
    wow so kraken marine start floods???
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin--DeathWish+Aug. 31 2002,02:05--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (DeathWish @ Aug. 31 2002,02:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm waiting for a map set in a huge alien factory<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    like the one in HL, on Xen?

    And I think Flayra was just speculating
  • Relic25Relic25 Pixel Punk Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 39Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    It was a good guess, but that's not what I had planned.  Sounds like an interesting idea though, if anyone else wants to use it. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
  • TRANCEBOYTRANCEBOY Join Date: 2002-07-30 Member: 1027Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Sgt. Bilko+Aug. 29 2002,11:37--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Sgt. Bilko @ Aug. 29 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->-Tirangle with three hives at the points and the marine base at the center (have the ceiling be a dirt type tile with a hole in the top, marines dug down into an alien infestation (underground map? Anyone played Red faction?)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is a great idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • DeathWishDeathWish Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1211Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Merkaba+Aug. 30 2002,21:20--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Merkaba @ Aug. 30 2002,21:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The alien's are not part of a civilisation and they do not construct anything beyond what they do with their own excretions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What I meant by the "alien factory" was, as you sort-of suggested, a factory set in the alien world but not necessarily built by those specific aliens - they may have found it by chance and started reproducing there, or something similar. Or, they could have found it there, taken it over, and now use it to create weird alien stuff whatever that may be <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • 10RoUNdTOmMYgUN10RoUNdTOmMYgUN Join Date: 2002-05-03 Member: 572Members
    I like it , we're not the only ones to get infested. Atleast my doctor seems to think I need to call others and see where the rash came from..........time to grab the phone. <!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->



    j/k
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