Res rushing doesn't always work out very well on pubs either. Even if you get 6 rt's up and you don't lose your base, those rt's usually aren't very well defended and can be taken out without too much trouble. The res count can easily go from 6 rt's to 2 in a few minutes, making people wonder what just happened.
I played quite a lot in 1.04, and I don't think I ever saw more than 2 comebacks. Then again, JP HMG was fairly common then, BUT. Even when the marines got heavy armor instead, the aliens got owned. Because we couldn't get higher lifeforms or any sort of counter to HA with the hive limitations. And vs good marines that guard the turretfarmed hives and not just lame around the map waiting to die, you have little hopes of retaking a hive like "noname" in ns_nancy(which just happened to be the most common map).
NS is about teamwork, ok we heard this already. I have read people complain there are no longer any chance of a brilliant piece of solo play to cause a turn-around in a given game....good because it should take a brilliant piece of TEAM play to cause a turn-around.
Pubs don't have enough coherency to facilitate teamwork? Probably but thats hardly the games fault or problem, thats the players fault for refusing to attempt to work together. Skilled players rather do thier own thing while ignoring the comm - who may be a noob comm, but none the less the skilled player should be obliged to assist where possible, not ignore the comm.
Pub servers are a random set of players joining in for a game of NS, if a clan mass joins and stacks a side whos fault is that ? The games, or the players ?
The game provides the enviroment, the players create the game, make it fun or boring, one sided or equal. All the devs can do is make sure there is no obvious inbalance of the teams equipment/abilities, not to worry about clans team stacking, pub servers lacking players that work as a team or that you as a skilled player can't shine as a individual.
End of the day its the players on the server that make or break the game - NS 2.xx is a evolving attempt to create a balanced enviroment that allows teamwork to shine. Want solo leet skillz showoff games, play CS.
Try what I do : I play CS for a while then move to NS during a nights play, CS allows me to enjoy showing my skills and then NS for a more teamwork oriented play.
Public games are far from "usually this", hardley ever have i seen 2 games exactly similar, mainly because the fact it is a pub and things rarely go as planned. Players will **** res, spam tf's, give themselves shotguns, and do all kinda of things that will put you behind.. and if for some reason the game you're playing are becoming linear, perhaps the person thinking the stratergies up should change them? or mabye you should step up and take charge of the team yourself? Personally i find it very atmospheric and exteamly fun when someone actually takes charge of a team and tries to get things in order
Then clearly some of your experiences have differed from mine. I've found that you can tell the outcome of each game within the first 5 minutes. This is usually due to the marines lacking a decent commander or the aliens refusing to group up and work as a team. This happens 80% of the time.
By the way, it's extremely easy for marines to cap the entire map fast on pubs. All it takes are teams of 2 marines each - send them to a few res nodes around the map and you may only lose one res node, while the rest all get electrified.
As for 1.04 JP rushes, I will never understand why people thought this was a problem. I never had any trouble killing these guys, even as a hive 1 skulk. It just takes patience, timing and skill. As for HA, I've found that hive 2 fades are much more effective at taking out HA trains than Onos are. Again, this has been my experience on pubs. If you have a fully equipped HA train, including GLs, shotties, HMGs, and a few skilled players, all the onos in the world won't be able to touch them. At least with fades with acid rocket, you could just keep spraying them from a distance, as it required them to weld a lot more, making their coordination less cohesive, and the train more open for attack. Teams of skilled 1.04 fades could take out HA trains fairly easily in 1.04, if just a few of them worked to together.
A 2 hive lockdown on the other hand, is a completely different story. If the marines were actually waiting for HA in such a case, they were just prolonging the inevitable. I suppose this was the only real detriment about 1.04 gameplay, that and the bugs of course.
a) ...games where winning and losing are decided in the first 5 minutes. b) ...teamless team-play as marines in the beginning of each game. c) ...JP+sg marines hammering down your hive(s) at the first 10 minutes, even though you were winning.
So, in overall, it's a pretty damn balanced game. Even better: no bugs. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
As 2.0 came out, a massive wave of new players came to NS. Which ofcourse is a good thing, but they are mainly the cause of all the bad things, cause they dont know how to play the game right yet. Not like when 1.xx was out they magically learned that JP+HMG in 5 mins was the way to go, no they did not. It took time until pubs had majority of people who knew how to play the game. Just give it time...
I love the current version of NS, actually if i'd have to choose between 2.xx and 1.xx, i'd choose 2.xx . It may have it flaws but theres enough good sides to make them almost not worth mentionable.
<!--QuoteBegin--Umbraed Monkey+Nov 12 2003, 07:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Nov 12 2003, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont want to analyse into it, but 1.0x games simply have this large-scale-battle feel to it that 2.0x's lack. That is the main thing I miss about ns 1.0x's. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bingo.
Back in 1.0x, games seemed a lot more epic. In 2.0x, they seem a lot more like small skirmishes, and the epic feel just doesn't seem to exist anymore. Not that 2.0 isn't fun, just there is more chance of the game becoming tedious now, because you know who's most likely going to win not long after game start.
Oh, and 1.0x had Nancy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 13 2003, 07:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 13 2003, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Playing a 45 min game for one big battle?
<i>What a sweet game!</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its better than having 2-3 short firefights, then defending your base/slamming the enemy base for the rest of the game.
It's good to know I'm not alone. Based off of the posts in this thread I will give it another chance, but act like it's a completely different game. I guess the old NS is gone. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll never really leave the mod, I'll keep checkin up on it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Umbraed Monkey+Nov 13 2003, 08:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Nov 13 2003, 08:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 13 2003, 07:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 13 2003, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Playing a 45 min game for one big battle?
<i>What a sweet game!</i> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its better than having 2-3 short firefights, then defending your base/slamming the enemy base for the rest of the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Too bad that's nothing like what the game is now, otherwise you are 100% correct
Comments
And vs good marines that guard the turretfarmed hives and not just lame around the map waiting to die, you have little hopes of retaking a hive like "noname" in ns_nancy(which just happened to be the most common map).
NS is about teamwork, ok we heard this already. I have read people complain there are no longer any chance of a brilliant piece of solo play to cause a turn-around in a given game....good because it should take a brilliant piece of TEAM play to cause a turn-around.
Pubs don't have enough coherency to facilitate teamwork? Probably but thats hardly the games fault or problem, thats the players fault for refusing to attempt to work together. Skilled players rather do thier own thing while ignoring the comm - who may be a noob comm, but none the less the skilled player should be obliged to assist where possible, not ignore the comm.
Pub servers are a random set of players joining in for a game of NS, if a clan mass joins and stacks a side whos fault is that ? The games, or the players ?
The game provides the enviroment, the players create the game, make it fun or boring, one sided or equal. All the devs can do is make sure there is no obvious inbalance of the teams equipment/abilities, not to worry about clans team stacking, pub servers lacking players that work as a team or that you as a skilled player can't shine as a individual.
End of the day its the players on the server that make or break the game - NS 2.xx is a evolving attempt to create a balanced enviroment that allows teamwork to shine. Want solo leet skillz showoff games, play CS.
Try what I do : I play CS for a while then move to NS during a nights play, CS allows me to enjoy showing my skills and then NS for a more teamwork oriented play.
My 2cents again.
By the way, it's extremely easy for marines to cap the entire map fast on pubs. All it takes are teams of 2 marines each - send them to a few res nodes around the map and you may only lose one res node, while the rest all get electrified.
As for 1.04 JP rushes, I will never understand why people thought this was a problem. I never had any trouble killing these guys, even as a hive 1 skulk. It just takes patience, timing and skill. As for HA, I've found that hive 2 fades are much more effective at taking out HA trains than Onos are. Again, this has been my experience on pubs. If you have a fully equipped HA train, including GLs, shotties, HMGs, and a few skilled players, all the onos in the world won't be able to touch them. At least with fades with acid rocket, you could just keep spraying them from a distance, as it required them to weld a lot more, making their coordination less cohesive, and the train more open for attack. Teams of skilled 1.04 fades could take out HA trains fairly easily in 1.04, if just a few of them worked to together.
A 2 hive lockdown on the other hand, is a completely different story. If the marines were actually waiting for HA in such a case, they were just prolonging the inevitable. I suppose this was the only real detriment about 1.04 gameplay, that and the bugs of course.
a) ...games where winning and losing are decided in the first 5 minutes.
b) ...teamless team-play as marines in the beginning of each game.
c) ...JP+sg marines hammering down your hive(s) at the first 10 minutes, even though you were winning.
So, in overall, it's a pretty damn balanced game. Even better: no bugs. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I love the current version of NS, actually if i'd have to choose between 2.xx and 1.xx, i'd choose 2.xx . It may have it flaws but theres enough good sides to make them almost not worth mentionable.
Bingo.
Back in 1.0x, games seemed a lot more epic. In 2.0x, they seem a lot more like small skirmishes, and the epic feel just doesn't seem to exist anymore. Not that 2.0 isn't fun, just there is more chance of the game becoming tedious now, because you know who's most likely going to win not long after game start.
Oh, and 1.0x had Nancy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<i>What a sweet game!</i>
<i>What a sweet game!</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its better than having 2-3 short firefights, then defending your base/slamming the enemy base for the rest of the game.
It's good to know I'm not alone. Based off of the posts in this thread I will give it another chance, but act like it's a completely different game. I guess the old NS is gone. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll never really leave the mod, I'll keep checkin up on it.
Keep up the good work, Flay.
<i>What a sweet game!</i> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its better than having 2-3 short firefights, then defending your base/slamming the enemy base for the rest of the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Too bad that's nothing like what the game is now, otherwise you are 100% correct