<!--QuoteBegin--K'Ragg+Dec 4 2003, 10:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (K'Ragg @ Dec 4 2003, 10:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--AJ53+Dec 4 2003, 09:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AJ53 @ Dec 4 2003, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dunno, going motion first then taking sense is good- scilence+cloak=NINJA <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm curious. You have sens+motion. Rines have relocated to the last hive and has obs of course. How are you planning to win? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You seem very certain that marines have an easy time expanding against sense, or sense and motion. If I have sens, I can lay down the second hive very quickly due to my marine killing rate. Second hive is variable, DC or MC works but DC is the most obvious choice for some evolves. I can see evolving into a lerk or fade, but saving for onos is better put into a third hive for MC.
As someone said - all chambers are useful. It's just a matter of coordinating your teams general scheme.
before you drope an upgrade chamber, ASK WHICHONE YOUR TEAM WANTS!!!!!, not doing so is selfish, it affects the whole team, therefore the decision should reflect the the opinion of those who it affects.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stanley_txp+Dec 4 2003, 10:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stanley_txp @ Dec 4 2003, 10:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> before you drope an upgrade chamber, ASK WHICHONE YOUR TEAM WANTS!!!!!, not doing so is selfish, it affects the whole team, therefore the decision should reflect the the opinion of those who it affects. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. And the commander/gorge argument doesn't hold water with me for one reason: the commader can drop all structures, regardless of what he just put down. In fact, putting more buildings down lets him put more buildings down. IE: armslab for protolab. But the gorge puts down a SC, the team cannot get up the DCs or MCs they want.
If a gorge drops an SC though, PLAY THE DAMN GAME! DON'T WHINE!
<!--QuoteBegin--K'Ragg+Dec 4 2003, 09:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (K'Ragg @ Dec 4 2003, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For sensory to work as first hive, you *need* to lock marines down. If marines gets past your outposts, and are allowed to build their own outposts or electrify nodes, you have a *huge* problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep, I can't agree more with this statement. Not only do you have a huge problem, but a nearly unsalvageable problem. Like I said before, once and intelligent commander realizes they aliens went SC first, he starts electrifying nodes. Not to mention building turret farm outposts with observatories at each one. It's not necessarily that people suck, or can't "adapt" to using a different chamber, it's that they don't want their game decided by such a small margin of either keeping the marines at bay or "locking" them down, or letting even a few out to build nodes and have them electrified. Even if you've got skulks waiting inside the SC range outside each exit, the commander wants out that side of the map, sends group to that exit, scans, they kill you all, and wham, they have access to the map. Organizing the alien team to all wait outside the marine base on pub servers can be a very hard task indeed. Everyone always has something they feel is needed, as in dropping an rt somewhere, dropping OCs, more SC, whatever.
<!--QuoteBegin--{WZD}+Dec 3 2003, 11:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ({WZD} @ Dec 3 2003, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> An admin on the server banned the guy for doing this, not only that, he swore to keep his IP and ban him on every server he and his friends have and to tell any admin it if he sees him playing on another server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's just stupid.
I look forward to the marine flamefest that is the focus debate, and the billions of new Kharaa strategies that rely on SC as a first hive chamber to work.
I'll sit back in my chair and LAUGH... God, I'll laugh.
I mean, I can't STRESS how focus has changed gameplay in NS. I seriously cannot. Defense? Screw that. You're either dead or not with the new hitboxes. No cara or regen saving your silly arse. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
6v6 game. Pick any marine strat you want, for the most part. Now have 3 skulks outside marine base, 3 gorgies drop SC. As soon as they're built, skulks get focus and onebite the entire marine team. Unless the commander gets armor 1 within minutes, this is absolutely mindblowing. NO chance to retaliate. One bite and you're dead. And with 3 skulks munching on your ONE IP, you don't have a chance. Seriously.
This isn't even bringing into consideration combat. Cloaking/focus? Yeah. I just bit you to death and you didn't even know it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is always going to be one "freak out" guy that hates sensory first. Its a shame that the "freak out" guy on the server was the admin. A few days ago I mistakenly dropped a sensory first and told the team I was sorry. Everyone knew me and were cool with my mistake. Everyone but one guy. For the rest of the game he cried, bitched, and screamed. It got so bad that the admin had to kick him.
In essence I think the poster of this thread wants to see people calm down about this sensory issue. If sensory sucks as bad as the "freak out" guy says then the match will be over in a couple minutes. There is no point in making the experience WORSE because YOU don't like the gorges decision.
Sensory may be what the TEAM wants. Most of the time your not dropping chambers for your TEAM, your dropping chambers for the vocal minority. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> (I'm sure everyone here has heard the one guy that went early Onos demanding Def. chambers.)
1) a Huge investment of res 3 Sens chambers just wont cut it, if ur going sens chambers then you need to cover a significat portion of the map in a sesory network this is probably gonna tak 100+ res!! which is hard at 1 hive.
2) SC is the most defensive chamber meaning you need to get sensories in important places early again spwnding res when you should be consentraiting on getting res up.
3) if the marines manage to get a 2 hive lock down your team then needs to work well together to bust a hive location (and we are talking about SC being viable for pubs at 1 hive right? ). no 1 fade or onos tearing down a hive without DCs
4) the other chambers only need 3 of them to be at 100% useful ness. SC with 3 chambers is no where near using 100% of its ability.
the gorge whos putting down chambers at 1 hive SHOULD ALLWAYS ask his team what chamber they want. even if the gorge doesnt want that chamber!!!! as a gorge (if ur perma gorging anyway) chamber choice doesnt really matter to you as much as the other life forms! 5) all of the SC upgrades can be countered with Marine tech.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
True story:
- sensory first game on mineshaft, 2 people of our 9 player team were b!itching about (me) getting sensory first, everyone else was cool about it and adapted. after a while into the game after serious combat going on in refinery (double res) and sleeping qaurters, we got sewer hive built (marines relocated to tram) and we quickly built dc. not long after, we lose sewer to a HA rush, they had the full works, (SG's HMG's GL's) and we thaught it was game over, but a few of us creative people (me and 4 other skulks) hid (cloaked) in the ladder/shaft area leading from sewer to drill acces, and we destroyed the entire Train!!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> needless to say by then the res wh0res who complained at the begining of the game onosed (jerks) and we all rushed marine spawn and destroyed their base which had 5 turrets (i think) and they only had lev 2 weapons because they thaught they didnt need anything better considering *we got sens first after all* <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> it was the best game i ever had.
*I Luv my sensory, and I Luv My gorgie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> *
<!--QuoteBegin--leek+Dec 5 2003, 08:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (leek @ Dec 5 2003, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->senory first ( the same debate again!!!)
1) a Huge investment of res 3 Sens chambers just wont cut it, if ur going sens chambers then you need to cover a significat portion of the map in a sesory network this is probably gonna tak 100+ res!! which is hard at 1 hive.
2) SC is the most defensive chamber meaning you need to get sensories in important places early again spwnding res when you should be consentraiting on getting res up.
3) if the marines manage to get a 2 hive lock down your team then needs to work well together to bust a hive location (and we are talking about SC being viable for pubs at 1 hive right? ). no 1 fade or onos tearing down a hive without DCs
4) the other chambers only need 3 of them to be at 100% useful ness. SC with 3 chambers is no where near using 100% of its ability.
the gorge whos putting down chambers at 1 hive SHOULD ALLWAYS ask his team what chamber they want. even if the gorge doesnt want that chamber!!!! as a gorge (if ur perma gorging anyway) chamber choice doesnt really matter to you as much as the other life forms! 5) all of the SC upgrades can be countered with Marine tech.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This thread isn't about "sensory first" (as a strat). Its about people that believe sensory first is useless so they complain about it the whole game. (Kinda like your post.)
The person who started the thread was upset because the admin freaked out and banned a player for dropping a sensory first. The guy was wrong not to ask the team but sometimes things happen. The sad part is this whole incident may not have been intentional.
As I stated in my post I have hotkeys for everything, and I put out a sensory first by mistake. 'shrug' 90% of my team understood and lived with it but we still had 1 guy that swore and complained the whole game. (Guess I was lucky he wasn't the admin) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
i also cant stand when people start taunting you for 10 minutes on the other team when they kill you then a noob annoying fight starts and it ends up making the game sucking. stupid cs no obs
If no one goes gorge, and just **** res, then they shouldn't ask anyone to go gorge and drop something because they suck. If someone does go gorge, don't tell them what to do, I've ignored requests to heal people because they whored for onos only to fall down the pit in ns_nothing at marine start.... its the gorge's choise, they have absolute power, they can drop a hive where they want, when they want, how they want, respect your gorge..... and hate run on sentances.... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Delphi+Dec 5 2003, 04:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Dec 5 2003, 04:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I look forward to the marine flamefest that is the focus debate, and the billions of new Kharaa strategies that rely on SC as a first hive chamber to work.
I'll sit back in my chair and LAUGH... God, I'll laugh.
I mean, I can't STRESS how focus has changed gameplay in NS. I seriously cannot. Defense? Screw that. You're either dead or not with the new hitboxes. No cara or regen saving your silly arse. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
6v6 game. Pick any marine strat you want, for the most part. Now have 3 skulks outside marine base, 3 gorgies drop SC. As soon as they're built, skulks get focus and onebite the entire marine team. Unless the commander gets armor 1 within minutes, this is absolutely mindblowing. NO chance to retaliate. One bite and you're dead. And with 3 skulks munching on your ONE IP, you don't have a chance. Seriously.
This isn't even bringing into consideration combat. Cloaking/focus? Yeah. I just bit you to death and you didn't even know it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wanna have that conversation now?
Focus isn't the problem, the aliens have always been aggressive, and you have no idea how many times I have wished for a better attack, and now I have it, thank Flayra! (uh oh....) As marines, I think there will be a LOT more teamwork stemming from this - If you're alone, you're dead, just like you say. One bite, continue to base. In the beginning, the aliens have the advantage, but if you start pumping out the toys, or even upgrading the weapons, those marines are going to put the new hitboxes to good use, and soon you'll find the marines are moving out just as aggressively as those aliens. I will LOVE a good hard fought battle in 3.0, I think we'll see the return of epic warfare, and Combat throws in your nice short games, for between classes (I'VE DONE THAT)
Also, I suspect that movement will hold it's fortified position at hive 2. Move between hives? Rocketing one-hit-kill skulks? How do you stop that? TO WAR!!!
People have no right to **** what gets put down. ANYONE on aliens can choose which chamber goes first.
If a DC goes down first, that helps anyone who is attacking. If sensory goes down first that helps anyone who is defending. If movement goes down first, then that would help builders the most.
Personally, I LOVE SC's first. That allows me as a gorge to set up ambushes at choke points with an SC and then OC's to do the damage. Since the majority of players won't assist a gorge with defense when building infrastructure, it's up to the gorge on what gets placed first. No infrastructure = lost game. The only people that get hurt by not throwing down a DC first are the Rambos who, while delaying expansion, don't really contribute to the team effort. They never defend gorges, they never go to locations under attack.
Putting an SC in creative locations keep the marines guessing where you are and allow the gorges to build up defense unhindered. With the movement chamber upgrade and silence that allows unfettered expansion, which is required to win the game.
That's a bit of a selfish way to play, don't you think? What YOU want? Can't you realize that your job is to support the skulks with what they need, you really aren't a massive fighter? If the skulks want DCs, by golly they get DCs. If they need a hive before DCs (don't ask me why, this is just an example) by golly I will get them that hive. You are not the center of the team, merely the frame. The team can grow only where you support it, and if you refuse to support it where it wants to grow, then the frame is exposed to the wreckingball of the marines, and the rest of the team will crumble apart without your support. Please think before you drop them. Not what works best for you, but what is NEEDED.
Is it selfish for a skulk to continue rushing the base without putting down an RT or doing anything else? From a gorge perspective, yes.
Is it selfish for a skulk to save all their res to go Onos again, without dropping any res or chambers? Yes.
I do what is necessary to ensure my survival, which precludes dropping d chambers first, if necessary.
A team can win without skulks, but they can't win without gorges.
I'm not saying that people playing skulks aren't team players, but anyone who constantly neglects dropping towers or chambers, even at the start of a game is selfish. SC's are a good way to ensure expansion without a huge delay due to gorges being killed and having to use up more res to go gorge again.
It doesn't cost anything to be a skulk, but many people expect a team to survive on 1 or 2 gorges laying the infrastructure. It's not going to happen with support from the other players.
SC's are a viable first chamber and if I don't see a chamber go up in the first 3 minutes of the game, I'll put up a SC. In many cases, just for spite and to show people that if they don't put up what they want, someone else will.
If you take it in the light that every single skulk saves for onos right off, and you are the only gorge, then the skulks are selfish. But if you look at it in a team perspective, and see some skulks that save for fade/onos, some that drop RTs, some that go lerk, and one that saves for hive, then the team is nicely balanced, going up in power at a rate that is easily managable, and the only thing the gorge has to do is be the backbone. You look at each skulk in an individual perspective, but you must see the whole team. I am not defending res hoarders who hoard res no matter what, I am defending those that save res because they will be needed later on in the game.
The SC first is very effective, its the negitive attitudes of the players who make sure they will lose when a SC is the first chamber. SC may be able to be countered 100% by an Obs, but that means the marine have to change over their tactics to take into account that they can no longer run from 1 side of the map to the other without making sure the way is clear of cloaked players. This means that you will be slowing down the expansion of the Marine by placing SC first. They need to spend Res on Obs every 50 feet so they know the area is clear of cloaked kharaa! To me this seems like a great way to get an advantage over the marine from the start.
3.0 talk...
The SC is maybe the best first chamber in 3.0, it allows the alines to have a powerful attack advantage over the marine up to level 2 weps/armor, this also allows Cloaked super skulks to almost STOP reckless marine advancement. They can't go anywhere without a group and a scan or two, you never know if a skulk with Focus is hiding somewhere.
Players will need to learn that SCs are just as good as MC, and DC for the first chamber. 3.0 will and had better see a change in opinions of these SC haters!
i dont understand why people get mad at people who drop SC first, sure ill get **** and ask why didnt you ask the team, but some people take it to the extreme and flame the poor person to death, learn to adapt to structures. isnt a sensory better then NO hive chamber? it is so quit whining and saying SC is gonig to have aliens lose the game. it obviously did well when 2.0 came out didnt it?....
Majin, SCs require defensive play. They don't help offensively. Even Focus is almost a joke: Reduces your ROF less than half so you do LESS damage over time. So marine buildings are even stronger.
Defensive play means you're not spending time destroying enemy res nodes, or slowing expansion. It means you have to magically have found yourself, secluded, from marines at the same time they come through a hallway. How often does that happen? So the commander doesn't have to invest anything in base defenses anymore, he knows you're not going to be attacking with any ferocity at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 5 2003, 12:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 5 2003, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Majin, SCs require defensive play. They don't help offensively. Even Focus is almost a joke: Reduces your ROF less than half so you do LESS damage over time. So marine buildings are even stronger. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that's changed to 25% slower RoF to 50% additional damage.
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 5 2003, 01:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 5 2003, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Majin, SCs require defensive play. They don't help offensively. Even Focus is almost a joke: Reduces your ROF less than half so you do LESS damage over time. So marine buildings are even stronger. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> @Uranium, Have you played 3.0 yet? If not, i'm sorry pal, but you have no idea what your talking about. Focus just takes getting use to to get AWESOME with.
What is the stigma against Focus, its great and all you ppl who have never used it need to stop bashing it. You have no clue what you are talking about.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Dec 5 2003, 01:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Dec 5 2003, 01:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 5 2003, 01:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 5 2003, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Majin, SCs require defensive play. They don't help offensively. Even Focus is almost a joke: Reduces your ROF less than half so you do LESS damage over time. So marine buildings are even stronger. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> @Uranium, Have you played 3.0 yet? If not, i'm sorry pal, but you have no idea what your talking about. Focus just takes getting use to to get AWESOME with.
What is the stigma against Focus, its great and all you ppl who have never used it need to stop bashing it. You have no clue what you are talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wee here we go with the 'I'm smarter then you' logic again. Didn't I mention this in the vet thread that 'strangely dissapeared'?
Listen you tool, changelog 1:
Replaced Pheramones with "focus". Each level of focus slows your weapon/ability rate of fire by 20%, and increases effectiveness (damage, duration) by 10%. Doesn't currently give a benefit to use of umbra or blink. So it's already a super-specialized weapon. Yet another one the aliens get dumped with.
Changelog 2: Increased the ROF penalty even more and upped damage for one-hit kills. Gimped it to slot 1 so all those 'super powerful' hive 3 attacks still suck (Because giving your life in the game 'isn't fair!' to kill a light marine in one hit, you know)
Changelog 3: Reduced focus ROF even more because it's too good. Hmm dealing 100% damage at 175% longer... sounds to me like it's making buildings harder to destroy. Thus, focus is yet another super-specialized role: It's ONLY good for chomping away at light marines you can ambush, and it intentionally gimps the alien so he doesn't have offensive capabilities as good as a regular player. So focus is only good against light marines with no upgrades, or severely crippled HAs. Anything that can actaully survive more then the first attack takes longer to kill.
Maybe it's changed, but the changelogs suggest it hasn't.
Uranium, you seem to be becoming a tipical CS forum goer. This is the NS forums, we are nice to each other here! Making rude message and the lines in your sig, whats up with you? You haven't always acted like this? Anywise...
Thats right you are a Vet now aren't you, so than you have used Focus in 3.0. That makes me even more confused as to why you have such a problem with it.
Its not ment to help you take down RTs 10 times faster, it ment for you to kill marines faster, and I find it works great. Cloaked Focus kills have even become a bit of a hot topic in the CM forums with ppl complaining it works too well. I don't know what you find so bad about it. You obviously undertand that because you just posted that.
I feel it also promotes group attacks by skulks, because as you said only low level marine are easy targets. But doesn't that prove my point about Focus and SCs being first? I siad it makes the marine expand slower and since you just stated how it is best for killing low level marines, wouldn't that mean that the start is when it works best.
The Start is when you have quick marine expansion! So to me, I think Focus has hit its target!
Comment if you wish, but lose the attitude you seem to be having lately. I liked you better before this new persona of yours. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Redemption: Grants the ability to port back to hive at low health. Regeneration: Grants the ability to regenerate health. Caraphase: Increases your armor and makes you mitigate more damage.
Silence: Grants you the ability to be soundless. Celerity: Boosts your movement rate and attack speed. Adrenaline: Increased energy regeneration.
Scent of Fear: Grants the ability to detect marines through walls. Cloaking: Allows you to turn nearly compeletely invisible when walking or standing still.
And then there is Focus. Focus is the only ability which detracts from what you allready have. Focus gives you a higher damage per bite, but penalises you by lowering your attack speed.
Over time you do less damage with Focus than you would without it. None of the other abilities does that.
Thats because its a powerful wep! I dislike the slowness also at times, but if you were able to get it with 1 focus bite every 2 normal bites but with 3 times the normal DMG, it would be a **** wep.
I'm generally against SC-first. It provides a nice advantage for the first few minutes of the game, but Obs and motion tracking can quite easily nullify those advantages in the early mid-game (or sooner, if the comm is on the ball). And then in the two-hive phase of the game, aliens are flat-out screwed. Cloaking offers them little value at this point, and they must do without either motion or defense chambers. No motion = gimped lerks, fades, and onii, and no defense = gimped everyone.
If a good Kharaa team can capitalize on the first few minutes of invisibility, then it can do a lot to swing the game in their favor. But if the Marines are able to relocate to a hive, or secure more than a few resources, then the aliens will simply lack the abilities necessary to push forward. In my experience, most SC victories that aren't skulk-rush blow-outs involve losing a hive and rebuilding in order to get motion and defense upgrades.
And I think it is naive to ignore the effect that focus has on one's DPS. Consider how much easier it is for the Marines to keep their resource towers up when it takes skulks twice as long to take them down. Focus skulks had better chomp every last Marine the second he leaves the base, because tearing down structures will be much harder.
<!--QuoteBegin--K'Ragg+Dec 5 2003, 02:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (K'Ragg @ Dec 5 2003, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Majin, i believe his point is:
Redemption: Grants the ability to port back to hive at low health. Regeneration: Grants the ability to regenerate health. Caraphase: Increases your armor and makes you mitigate more damage.
Silence: Grants you the ability to be soundless. Celerity: Boosts your movement rate and attack speed. Adrenaline: Increased energy regeneration.
Scent of Fear: Grants the ability to detect marines through walls. Cloaking: Allows you to turn nearly compeletely invisible when walking or standing still.
And then there is Focus. Focus is the only ability which detracts from what you allready have. Focus gives you a higher damage per bite, but penalises you by lowering your attack speed.
Over time you do less damage with Focus than you would without it. None of the other abilities does that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First, Celerity does not increase attack speed. Never has, never will. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Second, Focus has been stated time and time and time and TIME again as an anti-personell weapon.
With a SMD combo, at 2 hives, one skulk can RIP THE EVERLOVING HELL out of one HA just by circling him, hopping, and biting every so often. And focus actually HELPS you bite. Without focus, I've found my attacks to be much more precise, timed, and deadlier, just because they HAVE to be with focus, since I only get one chance. And once you get the "internal" clock of when a focus bite will "refresh", you're a killing machine. You can't move while munching an RT regularly, but at least with focus, you can bite, move, bite, move, bite, move, etc.
The entire NS community will be on the ground, stunned at the power of focus. Gorgie spit does 50 damage with focus. Three spits, and most marines are toast. Fadeswipe? GOOD GOD. Level1 armor marines are simply gone, duder. Onos gore? Up that to level 2, buddah.
Don't flame focus until you've played with it as much as we have.
Comments
I'm curious. You have sens+motion. Rines have relocated to the last hive and has obs of course. How are you planning to win? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem very certain that marines have an easy time expanding against sense, or sense and motion. If I have sens, I can lay down the second hive very quickly due to my marine killing rate. Second hive is variable, DC or MC works but DC is the most obvious choice for some evolves. I can see evolving into a lerk or fade, but saving for onos is better put into a third hive for MC.
As someone said - all chambers are useful. It's just a matter of coordinating your teams general scheme.
Flame on, but I LOVE Celerity, I'd have babies with chick with celerity any day. (Maybe adrenaline...that would just be sweet)
Agreed. And the commander/gorge argument doesn't hold water with me for one reason: the commader can drop all structures, regardless of what he just put down. In fact, putting more buildings down lets him put more buildings down. IE: armslab for protolab. But the gorge puts down a SC, the team cannot get up the DCs or MCs they want.
If a gorge drops an SC though, PLAY THE DAMN GAME! DON'T WHINE!
Yep, I can't agree more with this statement. Not only do you have a huge problem, but a nearly unsalvageable problem. Like I said before, once and intelligent commander realizes they aliens went SC first, he starts electrifying nodes. Not to mention building turret farm outposts with observatories at each one. It's not necessarily that people suck, or can't "adapt" to using a different chamber, it's that they don't want their game decided by such a small margin of either keeping the marines at bay or "locking" them down, or letting even a few out to build nodes and have them electrified. Even if you've got skulks waiting inside the SC range outside each exit, the commander wants out that side of the map, sends group to that exit, scans, they kill you all, and wham, they have access to the map. Organizing the alien team to all wait outside the marine base on pub servers can be a very hard task indeed. Everyone always has something they feel is needed, as in dropping an rt somewhere, dropping OCs, more SC, whatever.
That's just stupid.
I'll sit back in my chair and LAUGH... God, I'll laugh.
I mean, I can't STRESS how focus has changed gameplay in NS. I seriously cannot. Defense? Screw that. You're either dead or not with the new hitboxes. No cara or regen saving your silly arse. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
6v6 game. Pick any marine strat you want, for the most part. Now have 3 skulks outside marine base, 3 gorgies drop SC. As soon as they're built, skulks get focus and onebite the entire marine team. Unless the commander gets armor 1 within minutes, this is absolutely mindblowing. NO chance to retaliate. One bite and you're dead. And with 3 skulks munching on your ONE IP, you don't have a chance. Seriously.
This isn't even bringing into consideration combat. Cloaking/focus? Yeah. I just bit you to death and you didn't even know it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is always going to be one "freak out" guy that hates sensory first. Its a shame that the "freak out" guy on the server was the admin. A few days ago I mistakenly dropped a sensory first and told the team I was sorry. Everyone knew me and were cool with my mistake. Everyone but one guy. For the rest of the game he cried, bitched, and screamed. It got so bad that the admin had to kick him.
In essence I think the poster of this thread wants to see people calm down about this sensory issue. If sensory sucks as bad as the "freak out" guy says then the match will be over in a couple minutes. There is no point in making the experience WORSE because YOU don't like the gorges decision.
Sensory may be what the TEAM wants. Most of the time your not dropping chambers for your TEAM, your dropping chambers for the vocal minority.
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> (I'm sure everyone here has heard the one guy that went early Onos demanding Def. chambers.)
1) a Huge investment of res 3 Sens chambers just wont cut it, if ur going sens chambers then you need to cover a significat portion of the map in a sesory network this is probably gonna tak 100+ res!! which is hard at 1 hive.
2) SC is the most defensive chamber meaning you need to get sensories in important places early again spwnding res when you should be consentraiting on getting res up.
3) if the marines manage to get a 2 hive lock down your team then needs to work well together to bust a hive location (and we are talking about SC being viable for pubs at 1 hive right? ). no 1 fade or onos tearing down a hive without DCs
4) the other chambers only need 3 of them to be at 100% useful ness. SC with 3 chambers is no where near using 100% of its ability.
the gorge whos putting down chambers at 1 hive SHOULD ALLWAYS ask his team what chamber they want. even if the gorge doesnt want that chamber!!!! as a gorge (if ur perma gorging anyway) chamber choice doesnt really matter to you as much as the other life forms!
5) all of the SC upgrades can be countered with Marine tech.
- sensory first game on mineshaft, 2 people of our 9 player team were b!itching about (me) getting sensory first, everyone else was cool about it and adapted. after a while into the game after serious combat going on in refinery (double res) and sleeping qaurters, we got sewer hive built (marines relocated to tram) and we quickly built dc. not long after, we lose sewer to a HA rush, they had the full works, (SG's HMG's GL's) and we thaught it was game over, but a few of us creative people (me and 4 other skulks) hid (cloaked) in the ladder/shaft area leading from sewer to drill acces, and we destroyed the entire Train!!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> needless to say by then the res wh0res who complained at the begining of the game onosed (jerks) and we all rushed marine spawn and destroyed their base which had 5 turrets (i think) and they only had lev 2 weapons because they thaught they didnt need anything better considering *we got sens first after all* <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> it was the best game i ever had.
- <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> -
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> |-| <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> |-| <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> |-| <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> |-| <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> |-| <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> |-| <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
- <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> - - <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> -
*I Luv my sensory, and I Luv My gorgie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> *
1) a Huge investment of res 3 Sens chambers just wont cut it, if ur going sens chambers then you need to cover a significat portion of the map in a sesory network this is probably gonna tak 100+ res!! which is hard at 1 hive.
2) SC is the most defensive chamber meaning you need to get sensories in important places early again spwnding res when you should be consentraiting on getting res up.
3) if the marines manage to get a 2 hive lock down your team then needs to work well together to bust a hive location (and we are talking about SC being viable for pubs at 1 hive right? ). no 1 fade or onos tearing down a hive without DCs
4) the other chambers only need 3 of them to be at 100% useful ness. SC with 3 chambers is no where near using 100% of its ability.
the gorge whos putting down chambers at 1 hive SHOULD ALLWAYS ask his team what chamber they want. even if the gorge doesnt want that chamber!!!! as a gorge (if ur perma gorging anyway) chamber choice doesnt really matter to you as much as the other life forms!
5) all of the SC upgrades can be countered with Marine tech.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This thread isn't about "sensory first" (as a strat). Its about people that believe sensory first is useless so they complain about it the whole game. (Kinda like your post.)
The person who started the thread was upset because the admin freaked out and banned a player for dropping a sensory first. The guy was wrong not to ask the team but sometimes things happen. The sad part is this whole incident may not have been intentional.
As I stated in my post I have hotkeys for everything, and I put out a sensory first by mistake. 'shrug' 90% of my team understood and lived with it but we still had 1 guy that swore and complained the whole game. (Guess I was lucky he wasn't the admin)
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll sit back in my chair and LAUGH... God, I'll laugh.
I mean, I can't STRESS how focus has changed gameplay in NS. I seriously cannot. Defense? Screw that. You're either dead or not with the new hitboxes. No cara or regen saving your silly arse. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
6v6 game. Pick any marine strat you want, for the most part. Now have 3 skulks outside marine base, 3 gorgies drop SC. As soon as they're built, skulks get focus and onebite the entire marine team. Unless the commander gets armor 1 within minutes, this is absolutely mindblowing. NO chance to retaliate. One bite and you're dead. And with 3 skulks munching on your ONE IP, you don't have a chance. Seriously.
This isn't even bringing into consideration combat. Cloaking/focus? Yeah. I just bit you to death and you didn't even know it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wanna have that conversation now?
Focus isn't the problem, the aliens have always been aggressive, and you have no idea how many times I have wished for a better attack, and now I have it, thank Flayra! (uh oh....) As marines, I think there will be a LOT more teamwork stemming from this - If you're alone, you're dead, just like you say. One bite, continue to base. In the beginning, the aliens have the advantage, but if you start pumping out the toys, or even upgrading the weapons, those marines are going to put the new hitboxes to good use, and soon you'll find the marines are moving out just as aggressively as those aliens. I will LOVE a good hard fought battle in 3.0, I think we'll see the return of epic warfare, and Combat throws in your nice short games, for between classes (I'VE DONE THAT)
Also, I suspect that movement will hold it's fortified position at hive 2. Move between hives? Rocketing one-hit-kill skulks? How do you stop that? TO WAR!!!
Edit: As for combat......WHERE'S MY GL!?
If a DC goes down first, that helps anyone who is attacking. If sensory goes down first that helps anyone who is defending. If movement goes down first, then that would help builders the most.
Personally, I LOVE SC's first. That allows me as a gorge to set up ambushes at choke points with an SC and then OC's to do the damage. Since the majority of players won't assist a gorge with defense when building infrastructure, it's up to the gorge on what gets placed first. No infrastructure = lost game. The only people that get hurt by not throwing down a DC first are the Rambos who, while delaying expansion, don't really contribute to the team effort. They never defend gorges, they never go to locations under attack.
Putting an SC in creative locations keep the marines guessing where you are and allow the gorges to build up defense unhindered. With the movement chamber upgrade and silence that allows unfettered expansion, which is required to win the game.
Is it selfish for a skulk to continue rushing the base without putting down an RT or doing anything else? From a gorge perspective, yes.
Is it selfish for a skulk to save all their res to go Onos again, without dropping any res or chambers? Yes.
I do what is necessary to ensure my survival, which precludes dropping d chambers first, if necessary.
A team can win without skulks, but they can't win without gorges.
I'm not saying that people playing skulks aren't team players, but anyone who constantly neglects dropping towers or chambers, even at the start of a game is selfish. SC's are a good way to ensure expansion without a huge delay due to gorges being killed and having to use up more res to go gorge again.
It doesn't cost anything to be a skulk, but many people expect a team to survive on 1 or 2 gorges laying the infrastructure. It's not going to happen with support from the other players.
SC's are a viable first chamber and if I don't see a chamber go up in the first 3 minutes of the game, I'll put up a SC. In many cases, just for spite and to show people that if they don't put up what they want, someone else will.
Selfishness is relative.
If you take it in the light that every single skulk saves for onos right off, and you are the only gorge, then the skulks are selfish. But if you look at it in a team perspective, and see some skulks that save for fade/onos, some that drop RTs, some that go lerk, and one that saves for hive, then the team is nicely balanced, going up in power at a rate that is easily managable, and the only thing the gorge has to do is be the backbone. You look at each skulk in an individual perspective, but you must see the whole team. I am not defending res hoarders who hoard res no matter what, I am defending those that save res because they will be needed later on in the game.
The SC first is very effective, its the negitive attitudes of the players who make sure they will lose when a SC is the first chamber.
SC may be able to be countered 100% by an Obs, but that means the marine have to change over their tactics to take into account that they can no longer run from 1 side of the map to the other without making sure the way is clear of cloaked players. This means that you will be slowing down the expansion of the Marine by placing SC first. They need to spend Res on Obs every 50 feet so they know the area is clear of cloaked kharaa!
To me this seems like a great way to get an advantage over the marine from the start.
3.0 talk...
The SC is maybe the best first chamber in 3.0, it allows the alines to have a powerful attack advantage over the marine up to level 2 weps/armor, this also allows Cloaked super skulks to almost STOP reckless marine advancement. They can't go anywhere without a group and a scan or two, you never know if a skulk with Focus is hiding somewhere.
Players will need to learn that SCs are just as good as MC, and DC for the first chamber. 3.0 will and had better see a change in opinions of these SC haters!
Defensive play means you're not spending time destroying enemy res nodes, or slowing expansion. It means you have to magically have found yourself, secluded, from marines at the same time they come through a hallway. How often does that happen? So the commander doesn't have to invest anything in base defenses anymore, he knows you're not going to be attacking with any ferocity at all.
I think that's changed to 25% slower RoF to 50% additional damage.
@Uranium,
Have you played 3.0 yet?
If not, i'm sorry pal, but you have no idea what your talking about.
Focus just takes getting use to to get AWESOME with.
What is the stigma against Focus, its great and all you ppl who have never used it need to stop bashing it. You have no clue what you are talking about.
@Uranium,
Have you played 3.0 yet?
If not, i'm sorry pal, but you have no idea what your talking about.
Focus just takes getting use to to get AWESOME with.
What is the stigma against Focus, its great and all you ppl who have never used it need to stop bashing it. You have no clue what you are talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wee here we go with the 'I'm smarter then you' logic again. Didn't I mention this in the vet thread that 'strangely dissapeared'?
Listen you tool, changelog 1:
Replaced Pheramones with "focus". Each level of focus slows your weapon/ability rate of fire by 20%, and increases effectiveness (damage, duration) by 10%. Doesn't currently give a benefit to use of umbra or blink. So it's already a super-specialized weapon. Yet another one the aliens get dumped with.
Changelog 2: Increased the ROF penalty even more and upped damage for one-hit kills. Gimped it to slot 1 so all those 'super powerful' hive 3 attacks still suck (Because giving your life in the game 'isn't fair!' to kill a light marine in one hit, you know)
Changelog 3: Reduced focus ROF even more because it's too good. Hmm dealing 100% damage at 175% longer... sounds to me like it's making buildings harder to destroy. Thus, focus is yet another super-specialized role: It's ONLY good for chomping away at light marines you can ambush, and it intentionally gimps the alien so he doesn't have offensive capabilities as good as a regular player. So focus is only good against light marines with no upgrades, or severely crippled HAs. Anything that can actaully survive more then the first attack takes longer to kill.
Maybe it's changed, but the changelogs suggest it hasn't.
This is the NS forums, we are nice to each other here!
Making rude message and the lines in your sig, whats up with you?
You haven't always acted like this?
Anywise...
Thats right you are a Vet now aren't you, so than you have used Focus in 3.0. That makes me even more confused as to why you have such a problem with it.
Its not ment to help you take down RTs 10 times faster, it ment for you to kill marines faster, and I find it works great. Cloaked Focus kills have even become a bit of a hot topic in the CM forums with ppl complaining it works too well. I don't know what you find so bad about it.
You obviously undertand that because you just posted that.
I feel it also promotes group attacks by skulks, because as you said only low level marine are easy targets. But doesn't that prove my point about Focus and SCs being first? I siad it makes the marine expand slower and since you just stated how it is best for killing low level marines, wouldn't that mean that the start is when it works best.
The Start is when you have quick marine expansion! So to me, I think Focus has hit its target!
Comment if you wish, but lose the attitude you seem to be having lately.
I liked you better before this new persona of yours. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Redemption: Grants the ability to port back to hive at low health.
Regeneration: Grants the ability to regenerate health.
Caraphase: Increases your armor and makes you mitigate more damage.
Silence: Grants you the ability to be soundless.
Celerity: Boosts your movement rate and attack speed.
Adrenaline: Increased energy regeneration.
Scent of Fear: Grants the ability to detect marines through walls.
Cloaking: Allows you to turn nearly compeletely invisible when walking or standing still.
And then there is Focus. Focus is the only ability which detracts from what you allready have. Focus gives you a higher damage per bite, but penalises you by lowering your attack speed.
Over time you do less damage with Focus than you would without it. None of the other abilities does that.
I dislike the slowness also at times, but if you were able to get it with 1 focus bite every 2 normal bites but with 3 times the normal DMG, it would be a **** wep.
The damage is doubled right now for Focus (you can kill an LA marine in one bite) so it's useful as crap.
If a good Kharaa team can capitalize on the first few minutes of invisibility, then it can do a lot to swing the game in their favor. But if the Marines are able to relocate to a hive, or secure more than a few resources, then the aliens will simply lack the abilities necessary to push forward. In my experience, most SC victories that aren't skulk-rush blow-outs involve losing a hive and rebuilding in order to get motion and defense upgrades.
And I think it is naive to ignore the effect that focus has on one's DPS. Consider how much easier it is for the Marines to keep their resource towers up when it takes skulks twice as long to take them down. Focus skulks had better chomp every last Marine the second he leaves the base, because tearing down structures will be much harder.
Redemption: Grants the ability to port back to hive at low health.
Regeneration: Grants the ability to regenerate health.
Caraphase: Increases your armor and makes you mitigate more damage.
Silence: Grants you the ability to be soundless.
Celerity: Boosts your movement rate and attack speed.
Adrenaline: Increased energy regeneration.
Scent of Fear: Grants the ability to detect marines through walls.
Cloaking: Allows you to turn nearly compeletely invisible when walking or standing still.
And then there is Focus. Focus is the only ability which detracts from what you allready have. Focus gives you a higher damage per bite, but penalises you by lowering your attack speed.
Over time you do less damage with Focus than you would without it. None of the other abilities does that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, Celerity does not increase attack speed. Never has, never will. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Second, Focus has been stated time and time and time and TIME again as an anti-personell weapon.
With a SMD combo, at 2 hives, one skulk can RIP THE EVERLOVING HELL out of one HA just by circling him, hopping, and biting every so often. And focus actually HELPS you bite. Without focus, I've found my attacks to be much more precise, timed, and deadlier, just because they HAVE to be with focus, since I only get one chance. And once you get the "internal" clock of when a focus bite will "refresh", you're a killing machine. You can't move while munching an RT regularly, but at least with focus, you can bite, move, bite, move, bite, move, etc.
The entire NS community will be on the ground, stunned at the power of focus. Gorgie spit does 50 damage with focus. Three spits, and most marines are toast. Fadeswipe? GOOD GOD. Level1 armor marines are simply gone, duder. Onos gore? Up that to level 2, buddah.
Don't flame focus until you've played with it as much as we have.