Look ma, it's a map...

Merkaba

<div class="IPBDescription">Ns_hera top-down view.</div>Just for fun, I set my commander view height to something ridiculously high. The result is quite interesting...take a look at what there is of ns_hera so far <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->

InZaneFleaArmy

Sweet...thats NSTR 2 right? my CC is just a blank screen with an overhead view...Looks fun...keep it comin.

Wurmspawn

a little bit easier than bsp slicer eh?
i cant wait to play it, and i think that this will be very helpful in planning map layouts...

Greedo

I just spent the last few minutes trying to match screenshots to their spot in the map in my head.  That looks really cool, and I think commander mode images like that will help mappers out immensly, once the rest of us get that NSTR2.

realityisdead

Looks great Merkaba. I can even make out a hive (I think). <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

humbaba

DAAAAANG! NICE!

MariNe

Man that looks so damn good.That does look like a hive doesnt it...Gimme NSTR2 Now!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->

Flayra

Hey, I see like 4 new rooms there, where's my copy?

OK, so it looks nice, but what're the r_speeds? <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

-Charlie

Merkaba

In that picture? 5000 <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> For the commander in general...around 800.

realityisdead

800 in general? Have the guidlines been upped a litte? I ask because I am having just a terrible time with r_speeds in ns_nothing. They keep at between 200-400 for the most part, but when viewed at certain extremes in certain areas (especially when floating around with noclip, pretending to walk on the ceilings... <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> ), I can get in excess of 750... nearing 800 at a couple points.

I've done everything imaginable to reduce the r_speeds, but it's still a problem. I would just simply remove detail to combat this, but I can't really do that in this level. The detail in SSNothing is not in the form of misc. objects like pipes, wires, and crates, etc... It's more in the actual structure of the entire thing. The walls for instance. They way they are built for detail in certain areas makes the wpoly skyrocket (well, rise anyway), and I can't just go about removing the wall. Nor am I really willing to simplify their design, lest I ruin the entire apspect which makes the level what it is.

It's actually quite hard to explain... hope you understand what I'm getting at. For example, if I were to make a certain wall section flat, rather than indent it, it would ruin the entire appeal of that area. Though it would really help out the wpoly.... Or if I removed some large hydraulic looking supports from another area, it would lower the wpoly, but diminish the visual appeal of the area. My detail is <i>in</i> the structure of the level, and I can't really go about removing it. It's just the way I design.

Anyway, what I am asking here is: Will there be a bit of leniency on the r_speed guidelines? Because like Greedo warned me before, it could be all for nothing if not.

MonsieurEvil

The commander mode definitely gets more leniency on R_Speeds. More on that when the NSTR2 releases. As far as the in-game FPS goes, the deck remains at 700. Although I'm sure you can get away with small spikes above that in an incredibly detailed area.

Moleculor

However, the question remains: Will the existence of the commander mode make the r_speeds jump badly? Or has that been solved?

Greedo

Depends what you mean by that Moleculor.  If you mean "will the existence of commander mode inherently cause r-speeds to skyrocket?" the answer is no.  If you mean "will optimizing maps for commander mode cause r-speeds to skyrocket?" the answer is no, for the most part.

ChromeAngel

Well if Merk did that just by setting the commader height that almost certainly means it's not using the thick ceiling method ( doh! ).

Is it necissary to keep us in the dark about commander mode now the technical problems have been sorted?

Greedo

Chrome:  Yes.

Personally, I think it's funny seeing people wondering and and asking about the new commander mode.  Wait for the surprise, and you won't be dissapointed.

ChromeAngel

* Adds Greedo to my 'Who do you want to kill in NS?' post *

realityisdead

Thanks for the clarification MonsE. I'm glad to hear about the allowance of little peaks, seeing as r_speeds are kept under control the vast majority of the time.

Greedo, you are in the know about the new commander mode? I can't wait for it... sounds like it will be quite a suprise... hmm... <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

Scythe

<!--QuoteBegin--Greedo386+Feb. 17 2002,05:24--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Greedo386 @ Feb. 17 2002,05:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personally, I think it's funny seeing people wondering and and asking about the new commander mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now if that isn't gloating, what is?

"Look at you p-peons, begging and whining as you run towards my N-NSTR2"

--Scythe--
the_only_scythe@yahoo.co.uk

Cremator

very impressive merk

Merkaba

r_speed limits in commander mode have been given some slack, to the point of allowing them to raise over 800. It's really unavoidable due to the style of the perspective, and the new method for the commander mode. There are NO VIS optimisations. None. This means that rooms undner rooms, polys behind polys,  will ALWAYS be drawn if they are on the screen. This makes it that much more important to a) space your rooms out and b) not change the height of the map drastically. Usage of details invisible to the commander will be necesarry, too.

I'm not sure what this 'thick brush' talk is...the concept of a brush has no meaning once the map is compiled. You simply have map space and solid space - theres no 'solid space but not in a brush' or anything like that, because brushes don't <i>exist</i> once the map has been compiled.

Moleculor

I'm more talking/asking about r_speeds for the PLAYERS. As in the people down below the commander. Before, where there was that func_illusionary the polys above the ceiling (in the commander-space) would be 'drawn' for the players below, making r_speeds go up, and limiting the detail.

Does the new commandermode deal with this? If not, what was the point in making a new one?

Greedo

The new commander mode certainly does deal with that empty space above the map, and player r-speeds should certainly be much lower.  I should think that lower r-speeds was the most important reason for working towards a new way of implementing commander mode.

ChromeAngel

Merkaba can you run that no-vis part past me again.  The thought of not being able to block off large vistas with a big brush is making me break out in a cold sweat.

Merkaba

In the commander mode, the commander isn't actually in any VIS portals, and so all the VIS calculations are discarded. Everything that's within the 90 degree angled view is drawn.

If your map seriously suffers, you can always revert back to the old commander mode as its backward compatible...but hopefully you won't have to do that. I wouldn't worry until you've tried it.

ChromeAngel

Ah! I see! You meant no VIS optimizations for the commander.
* Wipes brow *
Of course that makes sense to me now.  You had me going for a while there Merkaba.

Unknown

wow i must say that is one nice looking map. say how long have you been mapping this map and how long have you been mapping all-together. that map is awsome though. I hope to see some in-room shots. keep up the great work.

ChromeAngel

fingertips, that is one of the official NS team maps NS_HERA.   Their are in-room pictures of it in the ReadyRoom and on Natural-Selection.org.  Your probably just didn't recognise it from that perspective.

KungFuSquirrel

I think you actually commented on some of them, too... Kinda like how you commented on my ns_veil ingame screens, then commented on the layout diagram by asking to see it in game...