Ns_nothing: a hive room

realityisdead · February 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">1 shot... needs some criticism</div>Here is a work in progress picture of a the centermost hive room in Space Station Nothing. I'm only posting this because I feel something is just not "right" in the room. I've tried several different approaches, but can't seem to get it right. My best guess is that it has something to do with the lighting. Any suggestions?

Here's the shot:

(Note: The shot is taken quite a distance off the ground using noclip)

<img src="http://tald.readyroom.org/maps/ns/ns_nothing/images/bridge_old.jpg" border="0">

Oh, and two questions:

- Should the hive rooms have a lot of cover in them? This doesn't, and I'm getting a rather high 550 w_poly here, so additional details need to be scarce.

- Does the hive hang from something or sit on the ground? I'm sure I can dig this up somewhere, but might get a faster (or easier, actually) answer here.

Thanks <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Moleculor · February 2002

The hive hangs. The NSTR2 might (I'm thinking probably) will have the model of the hive in it, so you can position it correctly.

No clue about cover. However, remember, a Class 5 has to be able to move around in there.

realityisdead · February 2002

Thanks Molec. The room is aprox. 700w by 900l by 1000h. There should be plenty of space to move around in. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> I get your point though... shouldn't be too cluttered with cover. Thanks <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Edit - It's a bit hard to tell from the shot, put that is a bridge above the pipes... to be used by bob and his low level friends to access alien only passageways.

Greedo · February 2002

I think you were on the right track by questioning the lighting. I don't notice any real hiding corners. The hive rooms don't need cover so much as they need places to hide, and the aliens (well, some of them) can hide in the dark well. Also, the image seems very static. Have you done anything with the particles yet? because this would be a perfect room for a long drip coming from those pipes on the walkway. And is that thing at the bottom a generator, or something? I know this will seem a bit, well, obvious, but your picture needs more ambient noise. I know I'm being a bit random and am jumping around here, but maybe the room might benefit by less of a "complete white" in terms of lighting, unless this is some kind of theme you have running through your map (I'm sorry, but all I can remember about your previous shots is incredible detail). And that reminds me, the brush detail here is fantastic.

realityisdead · February 2002

Thanks for the advice Greedo. You're right, it doesn't quite have the contrast it should. I'll see what I can do about that. As far as lighting style goes, the map does for the most part keep a white theme, with blue accents near the marine spawn/command, and red nearing the hives.

No, I haven't done any work with the particle system yet (I'm a bit afraid to... <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> ). I do agree though, some drips or steam coming from the pipes would be a nice addition.

I am also planning on making this room quite loud in terms of ambient sound. That's what the problem is though: The room (the lighting for the most part) doesn't <b>look</b> loud. Or hostile, really. It's all a bit too smooth.

I'm going to see what I can do with the lighting. Thanks Greedo. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Greedo · February 2002

And a question, I guess. What does "I am the voice of nothing. Upon your arrival your intentions will benefit me greatly. I will therefore assist you but you will later betray me and I will retaliate. You will never know me." mean? insane rambling, or hallucinogenic rambling?

realityisdead · February 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Greedo386 @ Feb. 14 2002,02:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And a question, I guess. What does "I am the voice of nothing. Upon your arrival your intentions will benefit me greatly. I will therefore assist you but you will later betray me and I will retaliate. You will never know me." mean? insane rambling, or hallucinogenic rambling?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hehe <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Actually, before I found NS last month, I had been working on a single player episode set in a "Space Station Nothing". I decided to scrap that and began work on the new (natural selection flavored) SSNothing. The only problem I had with that was that I had quite the storyline thought up for the singleplayer episode.

Just thought I'd keep it going. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

So in other words, somewhere in between insane and hallucinogenic...

InZaneFleaArmy · February 2002

Lol...I think it looks amazing...of course, this is coming from the sucky mapper that can't find a map to fit him:P. Well...Just don't listen to me.

realityisdead · February 2002

Just keep going at it IFA. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

cyberdaemon · February 2002

when thats a hive room then where is the damn hive ?
i mean that sort of organic stuff like in aliens where all walls in nests were under some sort of organic stuff wich makes room look total difference before aliens built a hive

realityisdead · February 2002

CD, I'm not sure I fully understand your comment. Are you saying there's not enough slime or alien gunk on the walls?

Or are you asking where the actual hive model is? If that is the case, then the answer would be that I simply do not <i>have</i> the hive model. It's not included in nstr1. Though it's been said it will be included in nstr2.

realityisdead · February 2002

Here are two new shots of the area. I've added some more contrast (especially to the walls) and there should now be some great hiding places. Future plans for this room include a few particle effects, like steam and fog/haze. The hive will hang from an extrusion on the back wall, above the generator looking thing.

<img src="http://tald.readyroom.org/maps/ns/ns_nothing/images/ssn5.jpg" border="0">

<img src="http://tald.readyroom.org/maps/ns/ns_nothing/images/ssn6.jpg" border="0">

EDIT - I shouldn't need to say that the darker areas are darker in-game. Everything is quite a bit easier to see or make out ingame also. Not quite sure how that works out. Overall, it has better contrast in-game.

Firegold · February 2002

omg

Greedo · February 2002

I don't think I need to say it, but this room is disgustingly huge, and in a good way. If you can pull off an r-speeds miracle here and stick this room in game, it will certainly be host to some of the greatest battles possible. Just the levels of combat you have here, without too much level-over-level, is just really inspiring. I can actually squads of marines engaged in battle on all three levels simultaneously.

Aside from that, the lighting is much better here, and I feel that any further tweaking should be left up to your personal preferences. I'd like to say that the room might be better off with some more infestation, esp. near where the hive is going to be, but don't go into overkill. Since the hive will be above that generator, you could add some heavier coating to it, assuming that the hive "drips" or something.

Cremator · February 2002

looks great to me!

MonsieurEvil · February 2002

Ken is a good enough mapper that I should really host his work at rr.org.

<a href="http://tald.readyroom.org" target="_blank">Oh wait...</a>

realityisdead · February 2002

Good point Greedo. The generator <i>is</i> a bit too clean. I'll see how it turns out once I place the actual hive there.

BTW, thanks for the compliments everyone! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> I wasn't sure how this room would be recieved.

Flayra · February 2002

You seem to have achieved some marvelous level-over-level gameplay here, even with the commander mode. I absolutely cannot wait to play a real game in that area. Feel free to send me a .bsp if you want more in-depth feedback from us.

Biomechanoid · February 2002

Looks good. my only comment is that, in the 4th pic (2nd on this page) that doorway seems too.... cube? perhaps putting a border texture on it, or having some angled, flickering light(s) in the corner would improve the "natural" feel of the hive room.

oh yea, and in teh same pic, those bulges above the two door ways that enter perpendicular to aforementioned doorway, the stripes on the textures don't quit line up... just caught my eye

realityisdead · February 2002

Flayra, after I get a few things squared away I'll send you a bsp of the room. As long as you don't mind it's pointlessness at the moment... just pretend the passages go somewhere. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Biomechanoid, Thanks for the heads up on the texture issue. Not that important, but easily fixed. Thanks. As far as the cube look of the short passageway... It is just a little intrusion that houses a lift to bring players between the two bottom levels. R_speeds permitting, I may or may not add something to "un-cube" it. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Hand_Me_The_Gun_And_Ask_Me_Again · February 2002

Looking really good. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Just an idea for when you can put the new hive thingy in - have a couple of lights shining 'on' to it, to make it look more illuminated than the surroundings?

Terawatt_99 · February 2002

very nice, <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> but what does the floor look like? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

realityisdead · February 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Terawatt_99 @ Feb. 17 2002,17:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but what does the floor look like? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hehe, oops! Here's a small shot of the floor. It's flooded mainly because I couldn't quite get the contrast I wanted on the ground. Makes sense though, since the pipes will be dripping once I can get the particle system working (worked just fine in the test cube... )

<img src="http://tald.readyroom.org/maps/ns/ns_nothing/images/nothinghiveslop.jpg" border="0">

And Biomech, here's an updated shot of the "cube":

<img src="http://tald.readyroom.org/maps/ns/ns_nothing/images/uncubed.jpg" border="0">

Nothing amazing, but it's better than it was. It's really all I can do without impacting the r_speeds. Thanks for the suggestion, I like it a lot better now. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

HMTG, we think alike. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Unknown · February 2002

JEBUS!!! what a big room. how many entrinces are there for that room? and what are the r_speeds? i hate it when people dont show the r_speeds in their pics.

realityisdead · February 2002

I've discussed numerous times that the r_speeds are 200-400 average here, and in some parts are having trouble staying under the 700 limit. (I apologize, it only states a 550 peak in the first post... but it's a number nonetheless. You can usually find the r_speeds of an area if you read the posts as well as look at the pictures.)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i hate it when people dont show the r_speeds in their pics.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I hate showing r_speeds in my shots. It's misleading, as I usually would go for shots where the w_poly is as at its highest... but are really a lot lower on average. I'm actually quite sick of talking about r_speeds right now. I'm just as aware about the limit as anyone else, and I don't need anyone to remind me of it, or try to enforce it upon me. If I don't get it right away, I <i>will</i>. If I just can't get them down in a certain area, I will cut the area. If it becomes too big of a problem all around, I'll cut the level.

Besides, I wouldn't want to go putting the spotlight on my worst enemy, Mr. W_Poly, now would I? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

As far as entrances... lets see... When complete there will be 7 total. That includes 3 alien only vents.

Oh, and yes, it is quite the large room... <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
Heh, makes me wonder if I have enough grid space in WC to fit the entire level on it...

<i>(Note: Sorry about my harshness, but I'm really just getting sick of my own r_speed problems, and I'm sure everyone else is too... lets talk about something else.)</i>

Flayra · February 2002

Understood. The same thing in programming is performance, in game design it's balance. Explore and create now, fix that stuff later, when it's proven itself to be a problem. If you do it too early, you can prevent yourself from creating something really good, because you're too worried about making it work in practice.

Unknown · February 2002

i like the darkness in there. sorry about the r_speed thing tho.
as far as the entrices go, i find it great that they have solved the problem of blocked entrices.

and finally as one mapper to another, how do you do alien only entrices?

realityisdead · February 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (fingertips @ Feb. 20 2002,07:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and finally as one mapper to another, how do you do alien only entrices?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I am using something like airducts for the alien only passages. They will be high enough up on the wall that only level 1 will be able to crawl up there. Or marines with jetpacks... <i>I</i> wouldn't go up in there if I were a marine though.... <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Freestyler · February 2002

All I can say about that map is 'Poor things'

I am, of course, referring to any egg that gets laid by a hive in that room! Its gunna fall for miles! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

VERY easy for the marines then. *rubs hands together*

realityisdead · February 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Freestyler @ Feb. 20 2002,12:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All I can say about that map is 'Poor things'

I am, of course, referring to any egg that gets laid by a hive in that room! Its gunna fall for miles! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

VERY easy for the marines then. *rubs hands together*</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Lol! I'll make sure that isn't a problem. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

badmofo · February 2002

this is the wierded coincidence, Ken. I just went to your website and took a look at your over-all layout of NS_nothing. It's scary how much the topside view of our maps look alike. especially the doughnut shaped hallway in the center linking everything. I'll post a BSP slice of my map ASAP so you can see....it's wierd.

Ns_nothing: a hive room

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