<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 13 2003, 05:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 13 2003, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Warfare+Dec 13 2003, 02:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Warfare @ Dec 13 2003, 02:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1 second stun does alot <i>for your teammates around you</i>.
Of course, if you're alone, which you shouldn't be, you're in trouble if you stun someone. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My question is: When and why the hell did aliens suddenly turn into the team that requires all the teamwork? 1.04 was marine teamwork alien solo and teamwork. It was always STRESSED that that was EXACTLY how Flayra wanted it.
2.0 Gave all these goofy-**** 'support' abilities to the aliens and screwed up the marines so they both required teamwork and could solo.
Now in 3.0 everything is getting nerfed, marines have grenades and catpacks, aliens are easier to hit and kill now, so it's Marine Solo / Teamwork and aliens NEED teammates all the time.
What a freaking load of ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> agreed
Well<i> sorry</i>, I was just discussing how hard it was to hit a flying lerk with a shotty, not how its a "end all solution", or why you would evolve into one. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Flik+Dec 13 2003, 06:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flik @ Dec 13 2003, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 13 2003, 05:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 13 2003, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ever hear of those overpowered things called 'Level 3 upgrades'? Shotguns? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ever tried hitting a flying lerk with a shotty? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. It's quite easy, unless they've flapped four or five times to get to max speed and I haven't jumped up to block that speed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I spoke with flayra earlier about stomp. "Did stomp get halved as well?" "Yeah. It's like one second now." "Oh, thank god. One second is an eternity in NS" "Exactly."
All the vanilla NS games I've played so far are VERY VERY balanced and came down to simple teamwork to get the job done. If teamwork turns you off (OMG CORNMANDER! HES USING TEAMWORK HAX BAN BAN BAN), don't play NS anymore. That simple. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Flik+Dec 13 2003, 04:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flik @ Dec 13 2003, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well<i> sorry</i>, I was just discussing how hard it was to hit a flying lerk with a shotty, not how its a "end all solution", or why you would evolve into one. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Where did those come from? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Warrior asked why the aliens needed range, I said because level 3 upgrades have no counter and shotguns, and you mentioned lerks like they're the only race MEANT to have 'range' (Which they don't).
Soooo you're saying my point still stands, shotguns and level 3 upgrades beg for a decent hive 2 ranged attack.
i really just think we should wait until the public is released and see how that goes. i mean sure, 1 second for onos is devistating to aliens unless the onos spams stomp (which it seems marines will be whining MORE and MORE and MORE because of it). lerk spikes are gone which makes them usless at end game, and what i dont understand is why make webs smaller when there a hive 3 weapon? at hive 3 marines deserve every little punishment they deserve. this only encourages marine turtling more
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 13 2003, 06:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 13 2003, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> , I said because level 3 upgrades have no counter and shotguns, and you mentioned lerks like they're the only race MEANT to have 'range' (Which they don't).
Soooo you're saying my point still stands, shotguns and level 3 upgrades beg for a decent hive 2 ranged attack. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What are you talking about? Could you please quote where I said that? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 13 2003, 06:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 13 2003, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Warrior asked why the aliens needed range, I said because level 3 upgrades have no counter and shotguns, and you mentioned lerks like they're the only race MEANT to have 'range' (Which they don't).
Soooo you're saying my point still stands, shotguns and level 3 upgrades beg for a decent hive 2 ranged attack. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was actually on the verge of agreeing with you until I saw this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Right. God forbid a hive 3 attack that can only be used once, lowers your score, and forces you to wait in the spawn cue and respawn back at the hive and regain your upgrades again kills one marine. GOD FREAKING FORBID A VANILLA MARINE DIES TO A HIVE 3 ATTACK!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone obviously didn't play the beta where level 10 marines (Yes, level 10) could be killed by xenofocus. And it wasn't even xenofocus specifically, it was the fact that superskulks dominated early NS:C because of the health upgrade per level (I'd love to see the current onos at level 10 with 20 health/level. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) meant you could get that xeno off anywhere, and since it WAS focused, it did insane amounts of damage.
Hive2 is not "begging" for a decent ranged attack. Aliens never needed one. Umbra and onos and gorgie? Owned. Now try three onos, four gorgies and two lerks owning your base. To use your words, GOD FREAKING FORBID SOME TEAMWORK WINS THE GAME! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
3.0c is one of the most balanced builds I've seen yet. A few more stomped bugs and we'll have one hellaciously awesome release.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flik+Dec 13 2003, 04:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flik @ Dec 13 2003, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 13 2003, 06:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 13 2003, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> , I said because level 3 upgrades have no counter and shotguns, and you mentioned lerks like they're the only race MEANT to have 'range' (Which they don't).
Soooo you're saying my point still stands, shotguns and level 3 upgrades beg for a decent hive 2 ranged attack. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What are you talking about? Could you please quote where I said that? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So what the hell was your point asking about lerks and shottys?
<!--QuoteBegin--Delphi+Dec 13 2003, 04:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Dec 13 2003, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hive2 is not "begging" for a decent ranged attack. Aliens never needed one. Umbra and onos and gorgie? Owned. Now try three onos, four gorgies and two lerks owning your base. To use your words, GOD FREAKING FORBID SOME TEAMWORK WINS THE GAME! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Dare I ask what the hell the marines are doing while you're storing up 400 resources, not including a hive, upgrades, or upgrade chambers?
All I did was asked on how easy it was to kill a flying lerk with a shotty. Considering how hard it was for me to do it, probably just me and my horrible aiming skills. Sorry for any confusion.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flik+Dec 13 2003, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flik @ Dec 13 2003, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Never mind about that.
All I did was asked on how easy it was to kill a flying lerk with a shotty. Considering how hard it was for me to do it, probably just me and my horrible aiming skills. Sorry for any confusion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh.... okay then <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--EL CHUPACABRA+Dec 13 2003, 04:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EL CHUPACABRA @ Dec 13 2003, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is just another example of how the aliens are continually made weaker and marines made stronger, <b>This is not the way to get balance!!!</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh .. eh .. uuuh ...
Isn't that exactly what balancing is? ... Oh $DEITY, what a silly thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 13 2003, 06:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 13 2003, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Delphi+Dec 13 2003, 04:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Dec 13 2003, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hive2 is not "begging" for a decent ranged attack. Aliens never needed one. Umbra and onos and gorgie? Owned. Now try three onos, four gorgies and two lerks owning your base. To use your words, GOD FREAKING FORBID SOME TEAMWORK WINS THE GAME! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dare I ask what the hell the marines are doing while you're storing up 400 resources, not including a hive, upgrades, or upgrade chambers? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Waiting on their three res nodes to give enough money to equip everyone in ha/hmg/gl/welder while we eat/rape one or two at a time?
The onos were early, but they got redemption, and I think only one died throughout the game. The other two were alive the entire time with res overflow (YES! Overflow is back for the alien res pool, even RFK goes into it) and the other 20 billion res nodes were giving our gorgies (Omg gorgie <3!) insane amounts of res to build anything anywhere whenever. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
We did win that game, btw. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--JoltGris+Dec 14 2003, 01:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JoltGris @ Dec 14 2003, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Smikies+Dec 13 2003, 04:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Smikies @ Dec 13 2003, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> wait, isnt 4/10, 2/5?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is acctually.. Ok thats just weird <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It means when you are webbed it used to last between 4-10s, now it lasts between 2-5s. It's not a fraction.
As for this thread: It is pretty silly and I usually avoid them. Don't forget umbra works now, I expect that to make a big impact.
Umbra is kinda neat, now. You can actually hear the "Thuk thuk thuk" as bullets miss/hit you. It's really great. Kind of disconcerting, as well. "KILL THAT BLASTED COW!" *thukthukthukthukthuk* (in the respawn queue) "I pumped two clips into 'em myself.. christ, what was that SOUND? Did they get new armor, or what?"
Well to get back on topic. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why Are The Aliens Always Nerfed?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they were winning too much and marines were losing too often. Thank you, that is all.
I can agree with anyone who says that NS is balanced alein VS marine in 3.0, all the changes I have heard seem to indicate excellent balance. All the real imbalances I am hearing about are within the teams themselfs. HMG nerfs while shotties remain the same (although shotties will be much more useless againt onos). Then there is the new onos, because of his HP, the only upgrade worth getting is regen. If you get cara it would take almost a full minute to heal up at a hive after losing any decent amount of health, and you dont even want to think of having to use one dc. even with redempt he would still take way to long to heal up when he gets back to the hive.
The imbalances in the game arn't marines > aliens or visaversa, the imbalances are due to making only one skill or stratagy worth using, while you wonder to yourself, why did they even encluded everything else?
Stomp's stun duration was reduced to 1 second most probably because of the Redemption Onos, which are now NOT useless at all and cause a lot of damage before redeeming.
Or at least thats what I've heard.
But obviously I have no beef on the stomp's stun duration, now that Onii have 900/500 and carapace is actually feasible ( look at the armor value, now add half of it )
EDIT : Short note - Even though it is balanced there is always one unbalancing factor in the game - the players.
<!--QuoteBegin--[DV]dolemite+Dec 13 2003, 06:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([DV]dolemite @ Dec 13 2003, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm surprised no one has mentioned FOCUS in this "argument" yet. Would that not be a anti-HA tool? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i wouldnt think it is, since it has a longer attack rate, so actaully now if u dont kill in 1 hit, its a waste pretty much... unless ur ganna against lvl 1 armor...
Balancing hasn't begun yet. These builds are to add features and fix bugs and exploits. In addition, the reason this patch isn't released is because of problems. Of course our final goal is to release the most balanced build possible, trust me when I say Flayra wants a balanced release 100x more than you do.
Ok beta players, that's enough talk. I'm getting jealous of the new version <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok, a few things a lot of pub players seem not to be aware of.
For a mod to REALLY REALLY be popular, it needs good pub play and clan play. And the overall clan play in 2.01 showed that aliens were too powerful. The reason? Most likely because that if the aliens are good enough that they can win lpaying solo in pub, they will STOMP the marines in a clan match where the aliens are played like a team. So the dev team decided to add some elements that make the aliens work more as a team if they want to win in pubs.
In pub games right now, marines work as a team because they have a comm directing them, so it becomes easier to work as a team, and most comms reward team players with better gear and upgrades. On aliens, the only driving force for teamwork is trying to stop a good marine team, and without obvious leadership on the alien team it doesn't happen. This leads to a vast gap between what you see in clan play and what you see in pub play. This will always be the most difficult aspect to balance about ns, with the teams having such obvious diffrences in abilities you see a natural tendency for marines to lpay as a team and aliens to solo the game.
I am sure a lot of people knew that, but several posters in the thread seemed uninformed.
Considering that even with more skilled players and team work, a 2 hive onos using stomp could destroy almost any number of marines regardless of equipment [other then jp] in almost any area, with just some minor support, I would say shortening the stun time is a pretty good idea. Both web and Stomp tended to be really decisive, especially since marines have NO counter to stun attacks OR an equivalant attack themselves, either a stun grenade or a sort of sticky foam spray. Not that I am suggesting each side have the same sort of abilities at all, but I do think that in 2.01 people really underestimated how powerful those abilities were for the aliens.
im actually glad about the nerfs on aliens (not because i play marines alot) its because that the community is becoming larger, with DM players who aren't used to teamwork and its ruining our games, some games people dont even TALK to eachother they just go on doing thier own thing which causes aliens to lose. and i think there should be something done about the "5 minute deal" where if every alien on the team doesnt drop 1 res tower the game is lost unless somehow aliens kill marines IP's. if aliens in a 8-up game dont have at least 4 nodes and marines have at least 2, marines chances of winning are about 90%.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In pub games right now, marines work as a team because they have a comm directing them, so it becomes easier to work as a team, and most comms reward team players with better gear and upgrades. On aliens, the only driving force for teamwork is trying to stop a good marine team, and without obvious leadership on the alien team it doesn't happen. This leads to a vast gap between what you see in clan play and what you see in pub play. This will always be the most difficult aspect to balance about ns, with the teams having such obvious diffrences in abilities you see a natural tendency for marines to lpay as a team and aliens to solo the game.
I am sure a lot of people knew that, but several posters in the thread seemed uninformed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sad part is, that the minority (the clan players) get to decide what the majority does. They deserve to have changes made to suite their needs, but there must be some way to <b>positively</b> encourage teamplay in public gaming. After all, forcing a team to work together through an incentive such as "If you don't work together you are going to have your heads handed to you" is not what I consider enjoyable. So some people are extremely serious about this game, to the point of clanning, that should not shove the pubs to the ground.
Cold, winning is a positive reward for playing as a team. Marines play as a team, they win, when aliens play as a team and they win. You simply see more marnies playing as a team. This is because marines have a commander who has nothing to do but encourage team play, and usually aliens don't. I far from take this game seriosuly, ask VNM, but I know if I want to have a good match I will work as a team. This an RTS/FPS. The nature of that type of game is that a mix of personal skill and team work will always win. In an FPS personal skill can make up for teamwork and cooridniation, in an RTS cooridnation and teamwork make up for "skill" as in twitch skill. To really do well you need a team with skill and a leader to direct them. This is true in pubs, to really maximize the ability of an alien team, you need to work as a team. The Elite Teamwork hack. The truth is, if you really want to be able to solo and enjoy the game, you should probably consider some other games. Because, to paraphrase, a good smart team will beat a good group of individual lpayers every time, all other things being almost equal. Which means if they perfect the balance of all the abilities, then the aliens will need to work as a team. If they don't, they end up making clan come down to a cointoss for any similarly skilled teams.
To correct this and make the pub play balanced and the clan play balanced at the same time means they need to make the players inj pubs play as a team, because they can't make the players in clans play dumb, allt he time.
No Darwin I'm not arguing against you, simply put, the aliens need some non-player influence to play as a team. Without some heckler yelling at them the same way that the commander does for the marines, you won't get half teamwork you would get on the marine side.
And YES, I have played "Boss Gorge" before and enjoyed it immensely, but what I want and I believe is needed, is some form of hierarchy in the Alien Team that is NOT made up by the player as Boss Gorge is, but is created by the game itself. So that upon entering the game you know who to follow. I am not revolted by teamwork on the Alien side, far from it friends I enjoy it. But the same encouragement that marines get to stick together should be given to Aliens. Obviously this would not change clan games, as they would already have a hierarchy setup, but for pubbers, it may just change everything.
The problem with balance is... there never will be any. There are too many factors. If the marines don't have a good com, then they almost automatically lose. If the aliens suck, then the marines usually win, and vise versa. It also depends what side you play on most of the time. If you mostly play aliens, you probably think they are getting nerfed and whatnot. I play marine almost all the time, and when I played 2.0 when it came out I was like WTH aliens are so stacked!!!111 Well after you play a lot you realize it is not stacked. There are advantages for both teams. I have recorded the last few games I have played, and here are the results: Marines 27, Aliens 22. Now that is pretty balanced if you ask me. Onos hp is raised and stun is decreased... doesn't sound like nerfed to me. Once the new version comes out and everyone plays, there will still be complaints, but in the end it will probably be as balanced as it is now (which is pretty balanced).
<!--QuoteBegin--EL CHUPACABRA+Dec 13 2003, 04:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EL CHUPACABRA @ Dec 13 2003, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In the new 3.0c..........
"O Lowered stomp stun duration from 2 seconds to 1 second"
Why? its perfect now, onos has "just" enough time to stomp and quickly swich to devour. Now using them together is nearly impossible, making devour almost useless for 95% of NS players. This just takes away more alien anti-HA power.
"O Reduced web potency by reducing min/max ensnare times from 4/10 to 2/5"
If so this needs to come back to 2nd hive and BB go to the lerk(so lerk can be a bomber maybe?)
This is just another example of how the aliens are continually made weaker and marines made stronger, <b>This is not the way to get balance!!!</b>
There are soooo many other things that can be done to balance the game other than nerfing aliens and helping the marines!!!!
Like for one making marines slightly more resistant to alien attacks at the higher armor levels, then add new HA and JP "seciallty suits. Then, you can get 4 different marine upgrades, regular HA and JP, and HA/GL and JP/GL. No longer having GL avalabe indvidually makes a Huge difference. Also, with specialty suits come different attributes. Regular HA and JP should come more resistant to bite, leap, slash, gore, and devour. And the HA/GL and JP/Gl should be more resistant to long range attacks. Blalancing this way tweeks the game instead of kicking it around.
Sorry for ranting but NS is a GREAT IDEA and I'm sick of good players leaving because of these reasons, please think more carefully in refining the game and don't just add/cut things without serious consideration first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> prac your devouring people, its easy, just get use to it instead of *****ing about change
Comments
Of course, if you're alone, which you shouldn't be, you're in trouble if you stun someone. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My question is: When and why the hell did aliens suddenly turn into the team that requires all the teamwork? 1.04 was marine teamwork alien solo and teamwork. It was always STRESSED that that was EXACTLY how Flayra wanted it.
2.0 Gave all these goofy-**** 'support' abilities to the aliens and screwed up the marines so they both required teamwork and could solo.
Now in 3.0 everything is getting nerfed, marines have grenades and catpacks, aliens are easier to hit and kill now, so it's Marine Solo / Teamwork and aliens NEED teammates all the time.
What a freaking load of ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed
Where did those come from?
Ever tried hitting a flying lerk with a shotty? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. It's quite easy, unless they've flapped four or five times to get to max speed and I haven't jumped up to block that speed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I spoke with flayra earlier about stomp. "Did stomp get halved as well?" "Yeah. It's like one second now." "Oh, thank god. One second is an eternity in NS" "Exactly."
All the vanilla NS games I've played so far are VERY VERY balanced and came down to simple teamwork to get the job done. If teamwork turns you off (OMG CORNMANDER! HES USING TEAMWORK HAX BAN BAN BAN), don't play NS anymore. That simple. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Where did those come from? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Warrior asked why the aliens needed range, I said because level 3 upgrades have no counter and shotguns, and you mentioned lerks like they're the only race MEANT to have 'range' (Which they don't).
Soooo you're saying my point still stands, shotguns and level 3 upgrades beg for a decent hive 2 ranged attack.
Soooo you're saying my point still stands, shotguns and level 3 upgrades beg for a decent hive 2 ranged attack. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about? Could you please quote where I said that? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Soooo you're saying my point still stands, shotguns and level 3 upgrades beg for a decent hive 2 ranged attack. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was actually on the verge of agreeing with you until I saw this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Right. God forbid a hive 3 attack that can only be used once, lowers your score, and forces you to wait in the spawn cue and respawn back at the hive and regain your upgrades again kills one marine. GOD FREAKING FORBID A VANILLA MARINE DIES TO A HIVE 3 ATTACK!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone obviously didn't play the beta where level 10 marines (Yes, level 10) could be killed by xenofocus. And it wasn't even xenofocus specifically, it was the fact that superskulks dominated early NS:C because of the health upgrade per level (I'd love to see the current onos at level 10 with 20 health/level. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) meant you could get that xeno off anywhere, and since it WAS focused, it did insane amounts of damage.
Hive2 is not "begging" for a decent ranged attack. Aliens never needed one. Umbra and onos and gorgie? Owned. Now try three onos, four gorgies and two lerks owning your base. To use your words, GOD FREAKING FORBID SOME TEAMWORK WINS THE GAME! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
3.0c is one of the most balanced builds I've seen yet. A few more stomped bugs and we'll have one hellaciously awesome release.
Soooo you're saying my point still stands, shotguns and level 3 upgrades beg for a decent hive 2 ranged attack. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about? Could you please quote where I said that? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what the hell was your point asking about lerks and shottys?
Dare I ask what the hell the marines are doing while you're storing up 400 resources, not including a hive, upgrades, or upgrade chambers?
All I did was asked on how easy it was to kill a flying lerk with a shotty. Considering how hard it was for me to do it, probably just me and my horrible aiming skills. Sorry for any confusion.
All I did was asked on how easy it was to kill a flying lerk with a shotty. Considering how hard it was for me to do it, probably just me and my horrible aiming skills. Sorry for any confusion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh.... okay then <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It is acctually..
Ok thats just weird <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Uh .. eh .. uuuh ...
Isn't that exactly what balancing is? ... Oh $DEITY, what a silly thread.
Dare I ask what the hell the marines are doing while you're storing up 400 resources, not including a hive, upgrades, or upgrade chambers? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Waiting on their three res nodes to give enough money to equip everyone in ha/hmg/gl/welder while we eat/rape one or two at a time?
The onos were early, but they got redemption, and I think only one died throughout the game. The other two were alive the entire time with res overflow (YES! Overflow is back for the alien res pool, even RFK goes into it) and the other 20 billion res nodes were giving our gorgies (Omg gorgie <3!) insane amounts of res to build anything anywhere whenever. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
We did win that game, btw. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It is acctually..
Ok thats just weird <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It means when you are webbed it used to last between 4-10s, now it lasts between 2-5s.
It's not a fraction.
As for this thread: It is pretty silly and I usually avoid them. Don't forget umbra works now, I expect that to make a big impact.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why Are The Aliens Always Nerfed?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they were winning too much and marines were losing too often.
Thank you, that is all.
The imbalances in the game arn't marines > aliens or visaversa, the imbalances are due to making only one skill or stratagy worth using, while you wonder to yourself, why did they even encluded everything else?
Or at least thats what I've heard.
But obviously I have no beef on the stomp's stun duration, now that Onii have 900/500 and carapace is actually feasible ( look at the armor value, now add half of it )
EDIT : Short note - Even though it is balanced there is always one unbalancing factor in the game - the players.
i wouldnt think it is, since it has a longer attack rate, so actaully now if u dont kill in 1 hit, its a waste pretty much... unless ur ganna against lvl 1 armor...
For a mod to REALLY REALLY be popular, it needs good pub play and clan play. And the overall clan play in 2.01 showed that aliens were too powerful. The reason? Most likely because that if the aliens are good enough that they can win lpaying solo in pub, they will STOMP the marines in a clan match where the aliens are played like a team. So the dev team decided to add some elements that make the aliens work more as a team if they want to win in pubs.
In pub games right now, marines work as a team because they have a comm directing them, so it becomes easier to work as a team, and most comms reward team players with better gear and upgrades. On aliens, the only driving force for teamwork is trying to stop a good marine team, and without obvious leadership on the alien team it doesn't happen. This leads to a vast gap between what you see in clan play and what you see in pub play. This will always be the most difficult aspect to balance about ns, with the teams having such obvious diffrences in abilities you see a natural tendency for marines to lpay as a team and aliens to solo the game.
I am sure a lot of people knew that, but several posters in the thread seemed uninformed.
Considering that even with more skilled players and team work, a 2 hive onos using stomp could destroy almost any number of marines regardless of equipment [other then jp] in almost any area, with just some minor support, I would say shortening the stun time is a pretty good idea. Both web and Stomp tended to be really decisive, especially since marines have NO counter to stun attacks OR an equivalant attack themselves, either a stun grenade or a sort of sticky foam spray. Not that I am suggesting each side have the same sort of abilities at all, but I do think that in 2.01 people really underestimated how powerful those abilities were for the aliens.
D
I am sure a lot of people knew that, but several posters in the thread seemed uninformed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sad part is, that the minority (the clan players) get to decide what the majority does. They deserve to have changes made to suite their needs, but there must be some way to <b>positively</b> encourage teamplay in public gaming. After all, forcing a team to work together through an incentive such as "If you don't work together you are going to have your heads handed to you" is not what I consider enjoyable. So some people are extremely serious about this game, to the point of clanning, that should not shove the pubs to the ground.
To correct this and make the pub play balanced and the clan play balanced at the same time means they need to make the players inj pubs play as a team, because they can't make the players in clans play dumb, allt he time.
D
And YES, I have played "Boss Gorge" before and enjoyed it immensely, but what I want and I believe is needed, is some form of hierarchy in the Alien Team that is NOT made up by the player as Boss Gorge is, but is created by the game itself. So that upon entering the game you know who to follow. I am not revolted by teamwork on the Alien side, far from it friends I enjoy it. But the same encouragement that marines get to stick together should be given to Aliens. Obviously this would not change clan games, as they would already have a hierarchy setup, but for pubbers, it may just change everything.
"O Lowered stomp stun duration from 2 seconds to 1 second"
Why? its perfect now, onos has "just" enough time to stomp and quickly swich to devour. Now using them together is nearly impossible, making devour almost useless for 95% of NS players. This just takes away more alien anti-HA power.
"O Reduced web potency by reducing min/max ensnare times from 4/10 to 2/5"
If so this needs to come back to 2nd hive and BB go to the lerk(so lerk can be a bomber maybe?)
This is just another example of how the aliens are continually made weaker and marines made stronger, <b>This is not the way to get balance!!!</b>
There are soooo many other things that can be done to balance the game other than nerfing aliens and helping the marines!!!!
Like for one making marines slightly more resistant to alien attacks at the higher armor levels, then add new HA and JP "seciallty suits. Then, you can get 4 different marine upgrades, regular HA and JP, and HA/GL and JP/GL. No longer having GL avalabe indvidually makes a Huge difference. Also, with specialty suits come different attributes. Regular HA and JP should come more resistant to bite, leap, slash, gore, and devour. And the HA/GL and JP/Gl should be more resistant to long range attacks. Blalancing this way tweeks the game instead of kicking it around.
Sorry for ranting but NS is a GREAT IDEA and I'm sick of good players leaving because of these reasons, please think more carefully in refining the game and don't just add/cut things without serious consideration first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
prac your devouring people, its easy, just get use to it instead of *****ing about change
its for the better away