<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does that mean that aliens don't have any viable early game long range attack? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Spores are far more effective than spikes ever were. One thing that annoyed me every time playing aliens are lerkers that sit in vents camping for rambos or spiking resnodes. That is a complete waste of manpower. Early game the lerk should spore marine encampments, lategame he should umbra onoses. Maybe with fixed umbra there will finally be enough team support to clear endgame stalements.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
Not to go too far off topic, but I (and others) made a couple of suggestions in the S&I forum on how to let the lerk have both spikes and bite (of course now I cannot find the thread at all <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
The first involved "perching" (that was rumored in early versions). The idea was to let the lerk "perch" by pressing "use" (or some other key) and have the lerk "deploy" (like a few seconds so it cannot be abused). From that point, until the lerk unperched, it would fire spikes (like a little turret <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ). When unperched, the lerk would have traditional bite.
The second alternative was to forget perch and just give the lerk bite while flying, and spike while on the ground - very simple.
The reason I mention it here is that these ideas had lots of support in the various threads, but I have not seen any official dev comment on the idea. The latter idea seems especially trivial to implement. The best of both worlds, allowing each lerk to play the way he wanted (I know for one, I was never really fond of diving right into shotgun blasts).
Teeth are FINE, as long as I can actually get down to the marines. If I have to float down like in 2.0, bite's pretty much useless, and your only hope to kill someone is to spray an area with clouds so that the marines are always inside the cloud.
You sure aint gonna get to bite many as a walking lerk, even with celerity.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
The main reason a lot of people hate the new lerk (the people who've played 3.0 that is, not people who have no idea what it's like but are moaning anyway) is because the enw flight system means taht if you just hammer the space bar, you go down because each flap uses a LOT of energy (compared to 2.0). BUT, Gliding actually works now. What i mean by that is, you can glide around corners, you can glide up (although you slow down a lot faster if you glide up), you can flap up then dive bomb straight down etc...
It's really a very good system, although i personally get shot down within seconds of becomming a lerk, there are other people who dive into a HA train, umbra, get a kill, then get out quick before they even get hit.
Imo, the 3.0 lerk is as big a change from 2.0 as the 1.04 fade was in 2.0, I.E, a lot of people who like the lerk now will have problems with it in 3.0, and there will be some seriously fantastic lerk players, but it will require a lot more skill to become good (rather than just sporing and spiking marines without fear of getting shot).
From what i have seen in the NS:Combat movies it is like a flying skulk <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I dont know any link to the movies but try to Search for NS: Combat Movie or something like that.
The flight system is great and I disgree with a prevoius poster who claimed it uses too much energy. Just glide. You can move fast, be maneuverable and SILENT with just one "flap" per second or even every second second (echo? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
Also, I don't undestand the frequent request for a "dive" function. What is so hard about: Glide to a good height above your prey, you will be absolutely silent, and when you are there, point your mouth at him, flap once and fill your mouth with pipin' hot marine bee-hind...
Most times I get killed by lerks I don't even see them comming, I am like WTH!? And looks at the death msg for the cause. Skulks? It is almost always an intense LMG/Bitegun waltz and THEN they get one in. Well, that or the Leap/jump from hell (Still trying to master it myself).
Bottom line:
Vanilla <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> vs Vanilla <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : Loads of HP+Decent Armor+Good bite DMG+Silent Glide = RFK and a frustrated Comm 'cause the 'Rine is lunch
Oh, well if we don't have to wait to get down to rine level, and indeed can glide around corners and dive, then the lerk does sound like a force to be reckoned with. I'm getting pumped just thinking about it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The only reason you can't dive now just by aiming downwards during a glide is that the airspeed is actually capped lower going down than it is forward or up(i.e. when you start going flying down you actually go slower), which is a known bug and I assume it'll be fixed. The new Lerk flight is extremely smooth and just feels more natural.
I've heard the "OMG no early ranged weapon" argument multiple times and it's still ridiculous. Spores is generally a more effective ranged weapon early game than Spikes were, and they fit in more with the Lerk's support concept. Bite does not make Lerks an easy target; it was very effective back in 1.04 with the old flight system and the new one just gives so much tighter control. As long as you realize that Lerks aren't supposed to be charging into marines headfirst like Skulks and pick your targets intelligently, they're very powerful. Combine with the ability to whittle them down with spores first and shoot umbra ahead of yourself and Lerks are not at all weak. And while it's true that you lose the ability to spike HAs, spiking HAs was pretty much useless anyway because they don't go anywhere without welders. Lerks transition to a more support role later in the game when marines get stronger guns and aliens get Umbra/Scream, the only difference is that you don't have people wasting manpower trying to take on HAs or structures with spike anymore.
Im looking forward to testing the new Lerk. <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--X_Stickman+Dec 30 2003, 11:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Dec 30 2003, 11:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gliding actually works now. What i mean by that is, <u>you can glide around corners</u>, you can glide up (although you slow down a lot faster if you glide up), you can flap up then dive bomb straight down etc... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>!!!!</span>
people, trust me. Lerks WILL NOT be useless AT ALL. Learn to bite and all will go well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
im flying already right trough marine bases, and just above there rhine heads with the sole purpose of just intimidating and atracting fire. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
but im afraid the lerk will be way to powerfull. its already very strong when used proper. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Zek+Dec 30 2003, 03:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Dec 30 2003, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only reason you can't dive now just by aiming downwards during a glide is that the airspeed is actually capped lower going down than it is forward or up(i.e. when you start going flying down you actually go slower), which is a known bug and I assume it'll be fixed. The new Lerk flight is extremely smooth and just feels more natural. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Slow diving isn't caused by airspeed caps, but anyway it's fixed for the next version.
Endgame screenshot of a useless lerk's score. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> YOU! I HATE YOU! HATE HATE HATE!
<!--QuoteBegin--Sizer+Dec 30 2003, 01:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Dec 30 2003, 01:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um, hopefully you recall that the only structures that spikes could take down without too much trouble were turrets? Have you any idea how long it takes to even dent an RT or TF with spikes? I have no issue with spikes being removed, but if the reason for removal was what you said, then that's totally illogical. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Rest assurd it is possible. All it takes is lvl 3 andreline, ALOT patience, and some sheer luck. I've done it many many times (only on PGs, TFACs, and turrets).
But that's not going to happen anymore. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
You see, decent lerks are hard to hit early in game. Coupled with the power of a skulk bite, yeah, you got yourself an early game killing machine.
Comments
Does that mean that aliens don't have any viable early game long range attack?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spores are far more effective than spikes ever were. One thing that annoyed me every time
playing aliens are lerkers that sit in vents camping for rambos or spiking resnodes.
That is a complete waste of manpower.
Early game the lerk should spore marine encampments, lategame he should umbra onoses.
Maybe with fixed umbra there will finally be enough team support to clear endgame stalements.
The first involved "perching" (that was rumored in early versions). The idea was to let the lerk "perch" by pressing "use" (or some other key) and have the lerk "deploy" (like a few seconds so it cannot be abused). From that point, until the lerk unperched, it would fire spikes (like a little turret <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ). When unperched, the lerk would have traditional bite.
The second alternative was to forget perch and just give the lerk bite while flying, and spike while on the ground - very simple.
The reason I mention it here is that these ideas had lots of support in the various threads, but I have not seen any official dev comment on the idea. The latter idea seems especially trivial to implement. The best of both worlds, allowing each lerk to play the way he wanted (I know for one, I was never really fond of diving right into shotgun blasts).
If I have to float down like in 2.0, bite's pretty much useless, and your only hope to kill someone is to spray an area with clouds so that the marines are always inside the cloud.
You sure aint gonna get to bite many as a walking lerk, even with celerity.
I guess what I'm asking is - can we dive?
It's really a very good system, although i personally get shot down within seconds of becomming a lerk, there are other people who dive into a HA train, umbra, get a kill, then get out quick before they even get hit.
Imo, the 3.0 lerk is as big a change from 2.0 as the 1.04 fade was in 2.0, I.E, a lot of people who like the lerk now will have problems with it in 3.0, and there will be some seriously fantastic lerk players, but it will require a lot more skill to become good (rather than just sporing and spiking marines without fear of getting shot).
I dont know any link to the movies but try to Search for NS: Combat Movie or something like that.
The flight system is great and I disgree with a prevoius poster who claimed it uses too much energy. Just glide. You can move fast, be maneuverable and SILENT with just one "flap" per second or even every second second (echo? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
Also, I don't undestand the frequent request for a "dive" function. What is so hard about: Glide to a good height above your prey, you will be absolutely silent, and when you are there, point your mouth at him, flap once and fill your mouth with pipin' hot marine bee-hind...
Most times I get killed by lerks I don't even see them comming, I am like WTH!? And looks at the death msg for the cause. Skulks? It is almost always an intense LMG/Bitegun waltz and THEN they get one in. Well, that or the Leap/jump from hell (Still trying to master it myself).
Bottom line:
Vanilla <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> vs Vanilla <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : Loads of HP+Decent Armor+Good bite DMG+Silent Glide = RFK and a frustrated Comm 'cause the 'Rine is lunch
I've heard the "OMG no early ranged weapon" argument multiple times and it's still ridiculous. Spores is generally a more effective ranged weapon early game than Spikes were, and they fit in more with the Lerk's support concept. Bite does not make Lerks an easy target; it was very effective back in 1.04 with the old flight system and the new one just gives so much tighter control. As long as you realize that Lerks aren't supposed to be charging into marines headfirst like Skulks and pick your targets intelligently, they're very powerful. Combine with the ability to whittle them down with spores first and shoot umbra ahead of yourself and Lerks are not at all weak. And while it's true that you lose the ability to spike HAs, spiking HAs was pretty much useless anyway because they don't go anywhere without welders. Lerks transition to a more support role later in the game when marines get stronger guns and aliens get Umbra/Scream, the only difference is that you don't have people wasting manpower trying to take on HAs or structures with spike anymore.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>!!!!</span>
people, trust me. Lerks WILL NOT be useless AT ALL. Learn to bite and all will go well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Endgame screenshot of a useless lerk's score.
im flying already right trough marine bases, and just above there rhine heads with the sole purpose of just intimidating and atracting fire. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
but im afraid the lerk will be way to powerfull. its already very strong when used proper. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Slow diving isn't caused by airspeed caps, but anyway it's fixed for the next version.
Max
Endgame screenshot of a useless lerk's score. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
YOU! I HATE YOU! HATE HATE HATE!
Rest assurd it is possible. All it takes is lvl 3 andreline, ALOT patience, and some sheer luck. I've done it many many times (only on PGs, TFACs, and turrets).
But that's not going to happen anymore. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
You see, decent lerks are hard to hit early in game. Coupled with the power of a skulk bite, yeah, you got yourself an early game killing machine.