Americans Fingerprinted On Arrival In Brazil
AsterOids
Join Date: 2003-12-18 Member: 24536Members
Join Date: 2003-12-18 Member: 24536Members
<div class="IPBDescription">What do you think?</div> A brazilian judge has ordered that US citizens be photographed and fingerprinted on arrival in Brasil .
<a href='http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107177,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107177,00.html</a>
"Americans Fingerprinted, Photographed at Brazil Airport
Thursday, January 01, 2004
SAO PAULO, Brazil — Brazilian police fingerprinted and photographed Americans arriving at Sao Paulo's airport Thursday in response to new rules requiring the same for Brazilians entering the United States.
Federal Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva (search) ordered the measure Monday in response to the new U.S. anti-terror regulation requiring citizens from 27 nations, including Brazil, to be fingerprinted and photographed when entering America.
The U.S. anti-terror regulation takes effect Monday at all 115 airports handling international flights and 14 major seaports. It will allow instant checks on an immigrant's or visitor's criminal background.
On Wednesday, Brazil's Foreign Ministry requested that Brazilians be removed from the U.S. list, saying Brazil would consider treating U.S. citizens the same way upon their arrival.
"At first, most of the Americans were angered at having to go through all this, but they were usually more understanding once they learned that Brazilians are subjected to the same treatment in the U.S.," Wagner Castilho, press officer for the federal police in Sao Paulo, said of those arriving at Sao Paulo-Guarulhos International Airport.
The processing will continue as long as the judge's order stands, he said.
Brazil also requires visas for U.S. citizens, in response to a similar requirement for Brazilians entering the United States.
At Rio de Janeiro's Antonio Carlos Jobim International Airport (search), police said they were not ready to start fingerprinting Americans. "
Personnally i am against this sort of "out-of-control" control, but maybe it will help drive the point to americans where overblown terrorist hysteria leads to. The judge also said that this measure by the americans were remeniscent of the nazis and that it was xenophobic, to which i agree. Thats not said in the Fox article.
What do you think?
Edit: i think there is a factual error in the article, its not 27 nation on the list to fingerprint, its 27 nations that can go in the US without a visa, they are the ones not being fingerprinted. I will check it but im pretty sure its that.
EditII: gah im usually the one to point this out to others, it is not "the americans" who pushed these laws through, it is Ashcroft and Co. The judge didnt say "this measure by the americans", i dont remember the exact quote but must be something along "the US governement"
<a href='http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107177,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107177,00.html</a>
"Americans Fingerprinted, Photographed at Brazil Airport
Thursday, January 01, 2004
SAO PAULO, Brazil — Brazilian police fingerprinted and photographed Americans arriving at Sao Paulo's airport Thursday in response to new rules requiring the same for Brazilians entering the United States.
Federal Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva (search) ordered the measure Monday in response to the new U.S. anti-terror regulation requiring citizens from 27 nations, including Brazil, to be fingerprinted and photographed when entering America.
The U.S. anti-terror regulation takes effect Monday at all 115 airports handling international flights and 14 major seaports. It will allow instant checks on an immigrant's or visitor's criminal background.
On Wednesday, Brazil's Foreign Ministry requested that Brazilians be removed from the U.S. list, saying Brazil would consider treating U.S. citizens the same way upon their arrival.
"At first, most of the Americans were angered at having to go through all this, but they were usually more understanding once they learned that Brazilians are subjected to the same treatment in the U.S.," Wagner Castilho, press officer for the federal police in Sao Paulo, said of those arriving at Sao Paulo-Guarulhos International Airport.
The processing will continue as long as the judge's order stands, he said.
Brazil also requires visas for U.S. citizens, in response to a similar requirement for Brazilians entering the United States.
At Rio de Janeiro's Antonio Carlos Jobim International Airport (search), police said they were not ready to start fingerprinting Americans. "
Personnally i am against this sort of "out-of-control" control, but maybe it will help drive the point to americans where overblown terrorist hysteria leads to. The judge also said that this measure by the americans were remeniscent of the nazis and that it was xenophobic, to which i agree. Thats not said in the Fox article.
What do you think?
Edit: i think there is a factual error in the article, its not 27 nation on the list to fingerprint, its 27 nations that can go in the US without a visa, they are the ones not being fingerprinted. I will check it but im pretty sure its that.
EditII: gah im usually the one to point this out to others, it is not "the americans" who pushed these laws through, it is Ashcroft and Co. The judge didnt say "this measure by the americans", i dont remember the exact quote but must be something along "the US governement"
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
hopefully will add a bit of perspective to everthing which is happening lately.
without that little discovery this whole system would be compleatly pointless, unless you wanted to track normal people that is.
[/too sarcastic?]
Not everything the government does requires people to wear a tinfoil hat. The nations that are terminuses of travel for entry into the US and are being required to provide fingerprints also correlates with the list of countries that have pretty much no security of their own. Your conspiracy theory only makes sense if we fingerprinted everyone.
They are.
Only the people from the 27 countries which do not require visas to enter the US are not fingerprinted
And fingerprinting only works if there is no bypass and the political willingness to find terrorists and not let them off the hook.
For example, an haitian terrorist called Emmanuel "toto" Constant is living in New-York and the US governement knows about it. Its just thats its "their" terrorist, so that makes it ok i guess. No matter if he was fingerprinted, hed still be left off the hook.
I am not against catching terrorists, i just dont think that this is why this whole terror security apparatus is being builded for.
Not everything the government does requires people to wear a tinfoil hat. The nations that are terminuses of travel for entry into the US and are being required to provide fingerprints also correlates with the list of countries that have pretty much no security of their own. Your conspiracy theory only makes sense if we fingerprinted everyone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ack. everything I mention is a conspiracy theory these days...
besides, as I undedrstand it, the system has flaws (various loopholes) which any serious terrorist would simply use. (apart from the fact that as I mentioned terrorism and fingerprints have no inherrant connection, any determined terrorist group would use an 'unknown unknown' as someone so eloquently put it). which leaves the system pretty much there to track normal people (ie. people who are not terrorists), If anyone should choose to do so, not that they necessarily will, but its not beyond the boundaries of 'things which might possibly happen'.
Ah. So we should only catch the smart terrorists and leave the dumb ones alone? I mean, that british fellow with the shoe bomb was quite a genius as I recall... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
How about we try to catch as many as we can, and deter them from using the airports as a system of movement and a weapon? I still don't have a good alternative here from the detractors. Bear in mind that I'm far more of a privacy advocate than most of you will ever be. When it comes to foreign visitors coming through unsecured backwater airports though, I say it's perfectly reasonable to make sure they are not known terrorists or criminals, and if they commit a crime that leaves forensic evidence, we have some way to figure out a trail back to them.
Ok, a few industrial countries are exempt and the rest of the world is being fingerprinted on arrival at the US. Sounds better ? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok, a few industrial countries are exempt and the rest of the world is being fingerprinted on arrival at the US. Sounds better ? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Yes it does. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The excluded nations are ones that have visa relationships. The reason they have visa relationships (which date back decades) is because they already have considerable security of their own.
Tin foil hats!
If your fine with it, then theres really no problem (hey its your countrty, not mine).
Personally I find it mildly insulting/distasteful that everyone be treated as a suspect, for the sake of the few potential terrorists stupid enough to be caught by this system.
Also I dislike this constant focus on terror prevention and just general terror really, It serves only to see towards the saftey/prosperity of a 'select few' (if you catch my drift).
Goodness gracious... it deters terrorists from using air transportation at all to and from the US! How is that a minor victory? It's only the fastest and most popular (and most dangerous) form of international transportation. If the 9/11 terrorists had not been able to easily access aircraft, or if even one of them had been caught (several were known terrorists with records), the whole plot might have been unraveled before it was too late. I'd say it's money well spent even if it never ever catches one person but deters who knows how many...
*edit: I need spelling lessons*
Obviously Brazil's action is entirely symbolic. It puts things into perspective. The US is not the only country in the world, as many may think.
Obviously Brazil's action is entirely symbolic. It puts things into perspective. The US is not the only country in the world, as many may think. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, like I've now said 3 times (jeepers folks - there's a FAQ rule about reading other's people's posts before responding and I'm getting super tired of it being ignored), only 27 nations which already had visa relationships (due to high security at their own borders) are exempted. <b>ALL OTHER NATIONS' PEOPLE WILL BE FINGERPRINTED. ALL OTHERS MEANS ALL OTHERS. NOT MIDDLE EAST ONLY. ALL OTHERS.</b>
Ok, I feel better now. Sorry for yelling.
- so what? Whats the big deal? If even one criminal is caught <i>entering</i> Brazil from the US I'd be surprised. I would be happy, but surprised.
The use of this data seems to be largely absent from the article - if its being put to good use, then hurrah for fingerprinting Americans! If not, then, hurrah for a collapse of the Brazilian tourist industry!
Oh and can I just say that Richard Reed (the "shoebomber") is not a typical example of a English villain, and had a history of mental illness. As you know from your own movie industry, ALL English people (and CERTAINLY villains) are stilted, intensely evil, and effete.
But id better be careful because I might be imitateing the nazis! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
What last time I check Brazil wasn't one of Middle East's Great Satans. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
hey MonsE... i am looking all over for you...
Readyroom stopped posting news... =(
and we are going to host soon after the 3.0 launch, the South American Championship.
our league the Natural Selection Brazilian League - NSBL will host it...
we hope you can help in some way... even if is just to help us get in touch with flayra...
I tried everyone... PT´s especially... but nobody gave a CHAT channel to Flayra... besides the e-mail...
Also, we really want to make an interview to our BR sites (with you)...
Anyway... send me a PM... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> please
we have a BIG community here um South American, especially Brazil...
excuse my english... is not my nature language...
hope you see this... i will PM to you too... sorry to post it here... but i hardly see any reply from you recently..
What's the big deal? Or, for that matter, is it big at all? Is there even a deal?
I'm pretty sure they use some sort of scanner thing
[Slightly off-topic]
A couple of months ago, George Bush went to visit the Queen of England. While he was there, he insisted on bringing along his own private army, and surrouding himself with advanced electronic gadgetry (this in a country where the last political assissination was sometime in the 18th century). Anyway, during his stay, his security team caused *extensive* permanent damage to the gardens at Buckingham Palace.
The moral of this story? The obsession with security is now completely out of all proportion with the actual threat.
GROUND FARCE 1 Nov 23 2003
Queen's fury as Bush goons wreck garden
Exclusive By Terry O'Hanlon
THE Queen is furious with President George W. Bush after his state visit caused thousands of pounds of damage to her gardens at Buckingham Palace.
Royal officials are now in touch with the Queen's insurers and Prime Minister Tony Blair to find out who will pick up the massive repair bill. Palace staff said they had never seen the Queen so angry as when she saw how her perfectly-mantained lawns had been churned up after being turned into helipads with three giant H landing markings for the Bush visit.
The rotors of the President's Marine Force One helicopter and two support Black Hawks damaged trees and shrubs that had survived since Queen Victoria's reign.
And Bush's army of clod-hopping security service men trampled more precious and exotic plants.
The Queen's own flock of flamingoes, which security staff insisted should be moved in case they flew into the helicopter rotors, are thought to be so traumatised after being taken to a "place of safety" that they might never return home.
The historic fabric of the Palace was also damaged as high-tech links were fitted for the US leader and his entourage during his three-day stay with the Queen.
The Palace's head gardener, Mark Lane, was reported to be in tears when he saw the scale of the damage.
"The Queen has every right to feel insulted at the way she has been treated by Bush," said a Palace insider.
"The repairs will cost tens of thousands of pounds but the damage to historic and rare plants will be immense. They are still taking an inventory.
"The lawns are used for royal garden parties and are beautifully kept. But 30,000 visitors did not do as much damage as the Americans did in three days.
"Their security people and support staff tramped all over the place and left an absolute mess. It is particularly sad because the Queen Mother loved to wander in the garden just as the Queen and Prince Charles do now.
"Some of the roses, flowers and shrubs damaged are thought to be rare varieties named after members of the Royal Family and planted by the Queen Mother and Queen.
"Other Royals had their own favourite parts of the garden as children and some of those areas have been damaged."
The Queen's insurers have told her she is covered for statues, garden furniture and plants she personally owns, but the bill for repairing damage to the lawns and the structure of the Palace will probably have to be picked up by the Government.
The Americans made alterations to accommodate specialised equipment. The mass of gadgetry meant the Royals couldn't get a decent TV picture during the visit.
[EDIT: The cost to the taxpayer of the Bush visit was £15 MILLION
[Slightly off-topic]
A couple of months ago, George Bush went to visit the Queen of England. While he was there, he insisted on bringing along his own private army, and surrouding himself with advanced electronic gadgetry (this in a country where the last political assissination was sometime in the 18th century). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you quite sure the last political assasination was in the 18th century? And not perhaps in 1990? Or 1981? Or 1976? And of course, there's always the mortaring of 10 Downing St in 1991.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Provisional IRA's history of violence
The Provisional IRA was formed in late 1969, when it split from the Marxist-inclined Official IRA. Since then, its roll-call of violence includes:
March 1971: Attack at Ligoniel: Three soldiers killed.
July 1972: Bloody Friday. Series of blasts across Belfast. Nine killed, many more injured as 22 bombs go off.
July 1972: Ten die in bomb attack in County Derry.
October 1974: Guildford pub bombing on British mainland. Five die, 44 injured.
November 1974: Birmingham pub bombings. 19 dead, 182 injured.
December 1975: Balcombe Street siege. Four IRA gunmen take a couple hostage after a street gun battle in London, surrendering after six days.
February 1978: Firebomb at hotel in Co Down. Twelve people killed, 23 injured.
November 1978: Deputy governor of Crumlin Road prison, Albert Miles, shot dead.
<b>August 1979: Lord Mountbatten, the Queen's uncle, and three others killed by Provisional IRA bomb in County Sligo. The same day, 18 soldiers killed in bomb attack at Warrenpoint, County Down.</b>
<b>November 1981: Ulster Unionist MP for Belfast South, Robert Bradford, murdered. </b>
July 1982: Two bombs in Hyde Park and Regent's Park, London. In Hyde Park, two members of the Household Cavalry and seven horses die. In Regent's Park, six soldiers from the Royal Green Jackets killed.
December 1983: Harrods bomb. Five people killed and 80 wounded in a blast during Christmas shopping at the West London department store.
October 1984: Brighton bomb. Huge blast at the Grand Hotel, during the Conservative Party conference. Five die. Among the injured: the Cabinet minister Norman Tebbit and his wife.
November 1987: Consignment of 150 tons of weapons and ammunition destined for the IRA intercepted on the French coaster Eksund.
November 1989: Enniskillen massacre. Remembrance Day parade in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. Blast kills 11 people, injures 63.
September 1989: Deal bombing. Ten Royal Marines bandsmen are killed and 22 are injured when base in Deal, Kent, bombed.
<b>July 1990: Ian Gow, Conservative MP for Eastbourne and former Northern Ireland minister, killed by bomb at his Sussex home. </b>
<b>February 1991: Three mortar bombs launched from across Whitehall at Downing Street during a Cabinet meeting. One explodes in the garden, but nobody injured. </b>
January 1992: Eight Protestant builders killed by a bomb on their way to work at an Army base near Omagh.
December 1992: Series of IRA bombs throughout the province culminates in a blast in east Belfast which injures 27.
March 1993: An IRA bomb hits Saturday shoppers in Warrington, Cheshire. Two children, Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry, killed.
April 1993: IRA bomb in the City of London causes £350 million of damage.
October 1993: Blast at a fish and chip shop on the Protestant Shankill Road, Belfast, kills 10 people, including two children.
February 1995: Massive bomb at Canary Wharf in east London ends the IRA ceasefire that had been running since August 1994.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know this even though I'm not from your country. Either you didn't (tsk tsk), or you're trolling.
source: <a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/northern_ireland/paramilitaries/162714.stm' target='_blank'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/northern...ries/162714.stm</a>
Come on, you're all taking this overboard. Supposing 20% of all postal workers have committed a felony compared to 1% of normal people, would it be wrong to screen postal workers more than normal people? I don't think so.
Your point was that there have been no political assassinations in Britain in 200 years. I showed that this is incorrect, and that British security lapses have allowed plenty of assassinations in the past 25 years. I never said that the IRA was going to attack Bush, did I?