Ocarina Of Time Using Snes Zelda Engine

Soylent_green · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Jan 12 2004, 04:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And as far as the argument that "Zelda doesn't belong in 3D", I can understand that argument with the somewhat craptastic N64 controls, but I urge you to re-evaluate your opinion and take a look at Wind Waker. You'll find that Zelda does indeed translate VERY well into 3D. Is it the exact same? Of course not, but really is that what you want? I'm glad its different, it makes it new and fresh. And the cell-shading... God it looks even better with S-Video <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You thought wind waker looked good? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

Am I the only one who thinks ocarina of time's/majora's mask's graphics beat the crap out of that ugly cell shaded crap?(...I do like, wind waker, just not the graphics...)

Geminosity · January 2004

I like the WW graphics for what they are =3
Course, I wouldn't have complained if they'd went for the ultra serious graphic look they showed in the early GC trailers with link and ganon going head to head either ^^;

Boy_who_lost_his_wings · January 2004

never heard of game maker =\

cshank4 · January 2004

well this could be considered not a ware...even if it is a ROM right? Since its free and not absed off a game (It is but its made into a different engine by different people) Be like me putting NS into GBA form as a sidescroller.

SoulSkorpion · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cshank4 @ Jan 13 2004, 09:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> well this could be considered not a ware...even if it is a ROM right? Since its free and not absed off a game (It is but its made into a different engine by different people) Be like me putting NS into GBA form as a sidescroller.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No, it's a "derivative work". So it'll probably get Foxed. But it's not warez because it isn't a cracked version of an existing game.

Xzilen · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Jan 12 2004, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think i just made a mess in my pants.

I wanted to play Ocarina, i tried so many times, but i dispised the graphics and engine, 3D just isn't Zelda. I will be sure to look out for this. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Agreed whole heartedly. Link to the Past was actually my favorite.

Soylent, I agree, Windwalker is a good game, but ugh, cell shading is just crappy.

Jimmeh · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Jan 13 2004, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Jan 12 2004, 04:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And as far as the argument that "Zelda doesn't belong in 3D", I can understand that argument with the somewhat craptastic N64 controls, but I urge you to re-evaluate your opinion and take a look at Wind Waker. You'll find that Zelda does indeed translate VERY well into 3D. Is it the exact same? Of course not, but really is that what you want? I'm glad its different, it makes it new and fresh. And the cell-shading... God it looks even better with S-Video <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You thought wind waker looked good? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

Am I the only one who thinks ocarina of time's/majora's mask's graphics beat the crap out of that ugly cell shaded crap?(...I do like, wind waker, just not the graphics...)  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Wind Waker's graphics suit it... it looks really good IMHO

Even my mate who thought WW looked like crap when he saw the screenshots liked the graphics...

TheWizard · January 2004

Wow, I didn't think that posting a link to a game project could touch off an "Old School" vs "New Hotness" flamewar.

That out of my system, I bitched and moaned when I saw screenshots of Wind Waker's cell shaded style. But once I started playing I found the style to fit right into the game.

I never liked the "realism" they attempted to introduce in OoT and I think the style of cell shading used in WW was quite appropriate and brought back fond memories.

In my opinion WW was more of a 'zelda' game than Ocarina of Time.

Nemesis_Zero · January 2004

I honestly find it too tiresome to try and create a kind of hierarchical order of the members of the best game series ever to come into existence; personally, I love them all equally and will play through this baby as though there's no tomorrow.

On the subject of WWs graphics, I'll now make myself object of an awkward lot of flames, but Wind Waker has in a way the best graphics of all games of our current generation of consoles and computers:
Very many development teams set a certain visual style at the beginning of their projects, long before their technical environment has been assembled, and then try to take what their concept artists put on paper and cram it into the engine and its limitations. The result are games with a cool feeling to them, but no real graphical excellence.
Sometimes, however, the artists are forced or willing to look at their technical limitations before setting a style - that's in a way why some of the NS maps look so great: The mappers knew what was technologically feasible and decided to stick to it.
Similiar with Wind Waker: The artists saw the visual technology of the GameCube, realized that they wouldn't be able to reach true 'realism', but would be able to create comicgraphics that could stay absolutely true to their concepts, and then <i>went with that.</i>
The result made me literally giggle with glee while watching my enemies animations for the first time - yes, the concept behind it needs a little getting used to, but it's so perfectly exercised in any aspect of game graphics - from animation over modelling to level design and FX creation - that it's just impossible not to be in awe for me.

Geminosity · January 2004

to be honest the thing I liked most about WW's graphics was actually the expressions on the characters faces... they're just so full of life =D

Nemesis_Zero · January 2004

I'd argue that most of the effects (take, for example, the fog in the Wind sages Temple) were damn well done as well, but yeah, the facial expressions were sometimes just great. I literally laughed out loud the first time I saw the swinging lower lip of a guard looking around.

Soylent_green · January 2004

...How about a 2.5D Zelda then?

Use 3D graphics but lock the camera into a position above the player from the same angle as done in the 2D versions.

Liku · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Jan 13 2004, 05:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I like the WW graphics for what they are =3
Course, I wouldn't have complained if they'd went for the ultra serious graphic look they showed in the early GC trailers with link and ganon going head to head either ^^;  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
The Spaceworld movie? Yeah. I wish they were making that as a game an not just have it a movie showing the GameCube's Power. Also, Link look like he had lipstick on in it.

Wind Waker's a good game. But the Cell Shading looses it's novelty real fast. Sailing sucked, so boring. There wasen't to much detail on things. It's fun that they did it for Wind Waker, but now they're using Cell-Shading for the next game... great, boring. But they're giving Link a new design, so hopefully he's not a damn monkey. Everyone's legs were WAY to short in Wind Waker, and the big G looked stupid.

Boy_who_lost_his_wings · January 2004

i think the cel shading was ok, but they should go with a more realalistic darker, grittier feeling. Ya know, make some of the dunegons more gothic style and make there be more NPC, large towns ect. They really need to go with the space world type graphics =\

DOOManiac · January 2004

But dark and gritty isn't Zelda's style. Its bright and colorful, which is what Wind Waker does great.

Grillkohle · January 2004

That is true. Zelda always used to be a game for the younger generation (though it is still fun to play it when you are 14+).
Personally, I would like a more serious Zelda like game, with all the hard puzzles, but a more serious environment. Maybe something like FF7, just Zelda style.

Liku · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Jan 13 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> But dark and gritty isn't Zelda's style. Its bright and colorful, which is what Wind Waker does great.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Dark and Gritty is what the first Zelda was about. And the bright cheeryness should be in towns and the overworld. Not when you're fighting the King of Darkness.

xioutlawix · January 2004

Hurray for dark and gritty <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

I think i almost jizzed at the end of ocarina of time when you fight the real ganon, and the music turns dark, and there's lightning and all. Then I think how much fun it'd be if they used truly realistic graphics in that scene.

Maybe I'm just a dark person, or getting old, but I'd love to see a very serious-oriented, dark Zelda game. Where you feel like the weight of the world is truly on your shoulders, that you're fighting some incredibly sinister force with only the most malicious of intentions.

Wolf_Kahler · January 2004

Far too often I see people completely missing the concept of the "><" characters. A big thing doesn't eat a small by turning its mouth on itself, does it?

BIG > small ?

No. Think of it as an aligator trying to eat a fish, as in the example below:

ALLIGATOR < fish

See how the image works? Open mouth coming from the big, good, important, coolzorz thing to eat the small, bad, unimportant, uncoolzorz thing? Right?

This is also how it works in your math class:

BIG NUMBER < small number

10 < 8

8 > 10

3 < 1

1,800,865,465,765 > 1,800,865,465,766

1.09875687263462 > 2

Old-hand uber-soldier with star-destroying uber-nuke-firing ten-rotary-barreled belt-fed minigun hooked to a starship-sized box of ammo strapped to his power-suited back < naked nublet with spork

Et cetera.

Nurot · January 2004

I liked Majora's Mask better than Time. Would like to see them try and use the old snes forat on that. Man it would be absolutely terrible.

Boy_who_lost_his_wings · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (=DD=Wolf Kahler @ Jan 14 2004, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Far too often I see people completely missing the concept of the "><" characters. A big thing doesn't eat a small by turning its mouth on itself, does it?

BIG > small ?

No. Think of it as an aligator trying to eat a fish, as in the example below:

ALLIGATOR < fish

See how the image works? Open mouth coming from the big, good, important, coolzorz thing to eat the small, bad, unimportant, uncoolzorz thing? Right?

This is also how it works in your math class:

BIG NUMBER < small number

10 < 8

8 > 10

3 < 1

1,800,865,465,765 > 1,800,865,465,766

1.09875687263462 > 2

Old-hand uber-soldier with star-destroying uber-nuke-firing ten-rotary-barreled belt-fed minigun hooked to a starship-sized box of ammo strapped to his power-suited back < naked nublet with spork

Et cetera. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
twit, go back to 9th grade

Thansal · January 2004

........

wolf go check a math text <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

and I still find it sorta amusing, Zelda has ALWAYS been a cheary game (yes even the first one)

And if they EVER change that they will be lynched by nintendo fans.

One of the things I have always liked about nintendo is that they DON'T go in for the ohhhhhhh dark and angsty ohhhhhhhhhh

they go for fun, and chalenging (Zelda has had some good puzles in it)

I as of yet have not played WW (I am gona borow my friends GC one of these days <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>), however what I have seen of it looks good (though I tihnk I might get slightly ticked at the sailing thing, I HATE walking around <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>)

Boy_who_lost_his_wings · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ Jan 14 2004, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ........

wolf go check a math text <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

and I still find it sorta amusing, Zelda has ALWAYS been a cheary game (yes even the first one)

And if they EVER change that they will be lynched by nintendo fans.

One of the things I have always liked about nintendo is that they DON'T go in for the ohhhhhhh dark and angsty ohhhhhhhhhh

they go for fun, and chalenging (Zelda has had some good puzles in it)

I as of yet have not played WW (I am gona borow my friends GC one of these days <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>), however what I have seen of it looks good (though I tihnk I might get slightly ticked at the sailing thing, I HATE walking around <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>)  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
not angsty, just darker.

Nurot · January 2004

Nintendo never really has been the company to make dark and sinister games. The original zeldas were instant classics in my book I still play them sometimes actually.

Thansal · January 2004

again, a large part of the entire zeld series is that they are not dark at all (ocarina was the darkest by far)

Also keeping the game more light alows them to use those few times they throw in a dark spot much more effectivly.

There are alot of games out there that are dark all the way through and thus don't have much effect on you. However when a zelda game turns spookey and dark there actualy is an effect <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Honestly, if you don't like the feel of zelda (and most nintendo games) just play a different game, there are lots of games out there like zeld (none are as good in my mind but thats b/c I LOVE the feel of zelda games)

Grillkohle · January 2004

The point is that there is no Zelda-like game out there that is darker... as far as I know at least.

Quaunaut · January 2004

Will this be free? If so, I'll always have it. I think OoC was...amazing. Link to the Past I thought could have been a LOT better, and more balanced. *shrug*

Great find though <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Zig · January 2004

i get so nostalgic when thinking of n64 zelda games.. do you remember the INTRO theme? go play one of the OoT2D demos and it'll play the intro music..

i could almost MELT with the nostalgia... mmmmm ^_^

those were the best. ever.

Fieari · January 2004

I think the Zelda games have run the gambit of Dark and Light. Just from the games that I've personally played, I'd rank them this way:

DARKEST
Majora's Mask
The Adventure of Link
Ocarina of Time
The Legend of Zelda
Link's Awakening
A Link to the Past
Wind Waker
LIGHTEST

I mean, in Majora's Mask (which wasn't made by Zelda's original creator, by the way) every one you run into has had their lives influnced for the worse by the main villain, you're EXTREMELY short on time, and even though you can gain time back any time you want, there's always that nagging thought that you've just undone all the good you just did over those three days... not to mention that as the game progresses there're storms and earthquakes as the gravity of the moon starts wreaking havok with the earth... I mean, at the very beginning of the game, you're polymorphed into a hideous plant creature! We haven't seen darker than this in the Zelda games yet. Everything about this game is touched with a bit of sadness, of hopelessness, and you're crusading throughout it all, trying to fix what you can before your time runs out once more...

The Adventure of Link hangs in my memory as being dark for two reasons. The first is that it was DANG HARD. The second is because it literally was DARK... the pallet used consisted almost exclusively of dark colors. Lots of black, dark greens and browns for forests, greys for swamps... I think the brightest color scheme you run into is in the desert and river areas, and those don't feel happy at ALL due to the massive overwhelming forces of darkness heading your way. I know that most "Zelda Purists" hate this game for being different... heck, those that think OoT was a crappy game just because it was 3D would often like to pretend tAoL never even existed, but this game had a lot going for it. An RPG style advancement system, different sword moves you could learn throughout the game, devilish puzzles, really HARD enemies... and the story wasn't bad either. I'd say better than the original game, and better executed as well. Not to say that any NES game had much story, but still.

We all know about Ocarina of Time. The future was FREAKY when you entered it for the first time. The town full of re-deads? The ominous firestorm above Death Mountain? The chilling wind? And don't forget the castle being ripped out from the ground and suspended in the air, lording over the landscape by its mere presence. The bosses were mostly easy to beat, even in the Master Quest version, but the important thing is that they LOOKED big and scary. I mean, the huge disembodied hands beatting on a drum? Ganondorf's Shadow galloping through an art gallery? And of course, no one can forget the big pig himself, Ganon...

The Legend of Zelda was full of bright colors outside, and had happy music throughout the overworld, which is why I rank it brighter than the games above... but it wasn't a light game by any measure. The dungeons were dark, and the game itself was bloody hard, if not as hard as tAoL was. You're this kid, thrust into this gigantic world with only a sword, and even the sword is optional. (Try the swordless challenge sometime... it's quite possible, quite fun, and really freaky to play) The best Zelda theme remix I've heard really covers this mood well: <a href='http://www.ocremix.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR00482' target='_blank'>Zelda: Fear and Sufference</a>. The writeup for the MP3 download (free and legal, by the way) put it nicely: <i>Think about it: if you were a little elf boy with Spock ears, and were fighting off deadly beasts in a life-or-death scenario, this is probably more indicative of how you'd ACTUALLY feel.</i>

After this though, we start going into brighter, happier territory. I haven't played much of Link's Awakening, only knowing that it felt slightly darker than LttP due to the "I've woken up in a strange place, I don't know where I am and I want to go home" factor.

Link to the Past was cartoony, but a great game. It was bright and sunshiny outside at all times, and since you started out in your own bed, there was a slight feeling of saftey that Link's Awakening lacked. The story was awesome though, easily comparable to OoT's story except with less prose. Following your uncle after recieving a telepathic message... finding him dying, taking his sword and rescuing the princess... this game is easily up there with the best Zelda games ever made. And yet, it was happy somehow. You enter the darkworld, and you take the form of a pink fluffy bunny rabbit (that which reflects your heart). The ending is clearly the happiest of all the Zelda games too... you take the Triforce in hand, and use its power to make <i>everything that was wrong right again</i>. Now that's a demonstration of power... compare it to the King of Red Lion's wish at the end of Windwaker... Lion's wish was PATHETIC.

And yes, Windwaker. The game with the best graphics so far in the series, barring the Spaceworld demo only. It was a pretty pretty game. Gorgeous visuals. But it was also the most cartoony, the happiest of them all (except for the ending). This can be exemplified in the sounnd effects alone... if the music were more epic, if the sounds made were more viseral, I think this game could have been better than it was. This game, in my opinion, was the least fun to play. I mean, the dungeons were great, even if they were somehow happier than the other games as well, but the sailing... and the waiting... and the gopher (go for) missions.... collecting the triforce bored me to tears! A game should not do that to a person! The terrible music, sound, and gameplay as a whole definitely turned me off from this game, and made me yearn for a game that was still Zelda, but the opposite of Windwaker in every aspect that sucked about it. Hmm... Majora's Mask is pretty close there...

Here's to hoping that the next Zelda has graphics to rival Half-Life 2! I mean, the creator stated that he went with the cell shaded look because he couldn't make plain 3D give him effective enough facial expressions... well, HL2 is going to have facial expressions... he should take a look at that technology! I don't need blood, I just need something that's intense... something that draws me into as opposed to away from the story... something that I can connect to emotionally. Despite WW's prettness, despite its facial expressions (which SHOULD have drawn me in, but there were too many other problems) I just could not get into it due to the dull parts.

YMMV, of course. But I think my Dark-to-Light list is pretty accurate regardless.

Thansal · January 2004

ok, I discount the adventures of link b/c I honestly think the game bites <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> (go back and play it, it is NO WHERE near as fun as Zelda)

I liked OoT, again, the mostly light atmosphear made those crapy dark things that much better when they were played out (as opposed to games where the entire time was like that)

I also admit I never played Majora's Mask (not for any actual period of time atleast) what little I did play wasn't that good and I have never seen any one say anything good about it.

so yah, I discount your 2 darkest simply b/c they were not zelda games (Mask wasn't made by morimoto, and Adventures just wasn't a zelda game at all <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>)

And then OoT shows just how cool it is when you mix in those dark moments, they just get that extra oomph

And as for the next zelda game having HL2 quality gfx, keep dreaming mate.
TVs are to low quality (well mabey and HDTV, but those are still not mass market yet), and GC wouldn't beable to suport those gfx any way

Oh, and sid not on Link to the past and links awakening...
their the same game at the core with a few divergances (yes the story is compleatly different but jsut about everything else is the same)

Also the 2 new zelda games for GBC are very light and hapy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Ocarina Of Time Using Snes Zelda Engine

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