Pics look pretty sweet Friechamp good job. Lighting and architecture look solid, but the layout looks kind of empty. How about a double res in the empty center portion? or placing the hallways and room to the right of MS in the center and make that the double res.
I don't think every map needs a double res, and this map may be able to get away without one.
On the other hand, I'm worried about the comparative tactical value of certain hives over others based solely on travel time. It seems that to get between the upper two hives, it takes a rather short amount of time, but to get from the north to the south hive, it takes MUCH longer. This could ruin certain games based on alien starting position alone. I think the simplest fix would be simply to add a vent or hallway going straight (more or less) through the middle of the map, from the south hive to the north. When your rspeed and allocbloc errors are fixed, could you give that a try?
If you add a double node, please remove nodes from elsewhere. You've got 11, which is pushing high...
And if you remove nodes, take care that this doesn't unbalance the value of one hive over another...
Map balance is a tight line to walk. I will say that your current layout looks really neat... and I will say that because the marine start is relatively close to the south hive, I don't think that the passage from the south to north hive <i>needs</i> to be a hallway, just a route aliens can take without passing by the west hive or the marine start, and something they can do with relative speed. Timing how long it takes to get from place to place as a skulk should be important... especially as this specifies how fast reinforcements can arrive and the delay between arrivals when constant pressure is applied to a lockdown or assaulted position.
The 2nd beta of ns_trust is ready for download. Sorry that it took so long. I have fixed various bugs, built the ready room from scratch, added a hallway around the 3rd hive ("carrier bridge") for layout purposes, the performance is much better now and changed a few more things.
This beta is the last one before the final release, it is built for <b>playtesting</b> purposes. I release it to see if the locations of the res points work out like this and maybe discover a few more bugs which might occur during the game. I do not intend to do any major changes and the visuals will very probably stay as they are right now.
So if you are in a clan, got a server or know somebody who might want to provide some space for playtesting <a href='mailto:friechamp@hotmail.com'>please send me a mail</a> and we will arange a match! It's the only way I can find out if the map is fun to play in its current state or not, any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Just downloaded Ns_Trust_Beta2, here are some thoughts:
Is that RR music staying? I don't like it personally.
In cooling system you should consider making the pipes go deeper... it looks odd right now with the pipes just ending and a solid black texture.
Make sure all over the map that the chair models are flush with the brush that they are supposedly connected to, some of them hover currently and it looks odd.
Add overlays to the impulse generators, on the front, alien infestation overlays, right now that hive area looks too clean. It could do with some "lumps" of bacteria possibly as well.
Cargo Room 1: Those orange lights do not appear to be emitting any orange light, it looks very weird. I recommend removing them.
In marine start you can't get behind the "ship". This bothers me and detracts from both the realism and immersion factor(s).
The vents are too dark, I have the brightness in STEAM and on my monitor all the way up and I have trouble getting around.
Other then that I love this map, it has a lot of atmosphere and attitude.
Keep up the awesome work, can't wait for the final release!
The map was playtested and the layout turned out to have some issues, so I changed it. I moved some parts to fill the middle and to break the circular layout. Now I need some advise because I'm not sure if I should add another small connection. I marked it red in the pic:
(Note: If I add the connection, I will of course move the team_command. Please also keep in mind that I cannot add big hallways throughout the map anymore due to engine limitations. )
Again thanks for the comments, as you see I'm working on the map to release a final version soon, which doesn't only look good, but plays good as well!
<!--QuoteBegin-FrieChamp+Feb 9 2004, 03:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FrieChamp @ Feb 9 2004, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The map was playtested and the layout turned out to have some issues, so I changed it. I moved some parts to fill the middle and to break the circular layout. Now I need some advise because I'm not sure if I should add another small connection. I marked it red in the pic:
(Note: If I add the connection, I will of course move the team_command. Please also keep in mind that I cannot add big hallways throughout the map anymore due to engine limitations. )
Again thanks for the comments, as you see I'm working on the map to release a final version soon, which doesn't only look good, but plays good as well! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oooh sexy!
Does this mean I should add the connection or not? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Definitely, as it is the marines only need to defend one bottleneck. It's good to limit Onos movement, but not so great to do the same to Skulks. Perhaps some vents into the MS?
ok 1. this map looks great but has high poly count 2.needs more alternete routes 3.hives to exoposed to sieges 4.needs more vents but other wise it is a good map nice textures
so good job <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-exterminater+Feb 10 2004, 07:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (exterminater @ Feb 10 2004, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3.hives to exoposed to sieges <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask how can a hive be 'exoposed' to a siege? A siege cannon can fire through walls, therefore (no matter what) a hive is pretty much always exposed to a siege cannon.
Looking at the new minimap I would also say add the new route. It's looking fantastic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cobra^+Feb 11 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cobra^ @ Feb 11 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask how can a hive be 'exoposed' to a siege? A siege cannon can fire through walls, therefore (no matter what) a hive is pretty much always exposed to a siege cannon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you look at some of the corridors around the hives, they double back on themselves or have dead ends near them. Both of these allow a comm to place siege very close to the hive, easily able to hit anything in the room, but to get to them the aliens will have to travel quite far.
I see what you mean, my mistake <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Here's <a href='http://www.friechamp.net/ns_trust_beta3.zip' target='_blank'>beta 3 of ns_trust</a> !
I have changed the layout, cut a few res points and fixed a couple of other things (among them is most of the stuff DarkATi mentioned, thanks!). Nothing too exciting for a single player since the visuals haven't changed significantly. The big changes can only be noticed in playtests and that's what the beta is built for, but if you feel like you can have another walkthrough anyway <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have neglected the siege cannon issue so far, I will see what I can do about it after I got the layout figured out. I'm quite confident about this version already though <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ok i only noticed won prob the vents arnt tall enuff to fit anything and they have to be big enuff for a crouched marine because a skulk could hide in there
(but right now not even skulk can fit in it) i noticeed that the vent in "fuel conductions" is to small for anything but other wise great job! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cobra^+Feb 11 2004, 05:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cobra^ @ Feb 11 2004, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I see what you mean, my mistake <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> np (most ppl would go down with a fight im proud of you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Comments
Just some ideas.
Peace.
On the other hand, I'm worried about the comparative tactical value of certain hives over others based solely on travel time. It seems that to get between the upper two hives, it takes a rather short amount of time, but to get from the north to the south hive, it takes MUCH longer. This could ruin certain games based on alien starting position alone. I think the simplest fix would be simply to add a vent or hallway going straight (more or less) through the middle of the map, from the south hive to the north. When your rspeed and allocbloc errors are fixed, could you give that a try?
@Moose: I'm afraid it won't be enough to fill the center though, but I will consider your double res-node suggestion.
And if you remove nodes, take care that this doesn't unbalance the value of one hive over another...
Map balance is a tight line to walk. I will say that your current layout looks really neat... and I will say that because the marine start is relatively close to the south hive, I don't think that the passage from the south to north hive <i>needs</i> to be a hallway, just a route aliens can take without passing by the west hive or the marine start, and something they can do with relative speed. Timing how long it takes to get from place to place as a skulk should be important... especially as this specifies how fast reinforcements can arrive and the delay between arrivals when constant pressure is applied to a lockdown or assaulted position.
<img src='http://www.friechamp.net/images/ns_trust_rr.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The 2nd beta of ns_trust is ready for download. Sorry that it took so long. I have fixed various bugs, built the ready room from scratch, added a hallway around the 3rd hive ("carrier bridge") for layout purposes, the performance is much better now and changed a few more things.
<a href='http://www.friechamp.net/ns_trust_beta2.zip' target='_blank'>Download</a>
This beta is the last one before the final release, it is built for <b>playtesting</b> purposes. I release it to see if the locations of the res points work out like this and maybe discover a few more bugs which might occur during the game. I do not intend to do any major changes and the visuals will very probably stay as they are right now.
So if you are in a clan, got a server or know somebody who might want to provide some space for playtesting <a href='mailto:friechamp@hotmail.com'>please send me a mail</a> and we will arange a match! It's the only way I can find out if the map is fun to play in its current state or not, any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Is that RR music staying? I don't like it personally.
In cooling system you should consider making the pipes go deeper... it looks odd right now with the pipes just ending and a solid black texture.
Make sure all over the map that the chair models are flush with the brush that they are supposedly connected to, some of them hover currently and it looks odd.
Add overlays to the impulse generators, on the front, alien infestation overlays, right now that hive area looks too clean. It could do with some "lumps" of bacteria possibly as well.
Cargo Room 1: Those orange lights do not appear to be emitting any orange light, it looks very weird. I recommend removing them.
In marine start you can't get behind the "ship". This bothers me and detracts from both the realism and immersion factor(s).
The vents are too dark, I have the brightness in STEAM and on my monitor all the way up and I have trouble getting around.
Other then that I love this map, it has a lot of atmosphere and attitude.
Keep up the awesome work, can't wait for the final release!
~ DarkATi
<img src='http://www.friechamp.net/ns_trustlayout.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
(Note: If I add the connection, I will of course move the team_command. Please also keep in mind that I cannot add big hallways throughout the map anymore due to engine limitations. )
Again thanks for the comments, as you see I'm working on the map to release a final version soon, which doesn't only look good, but plays good as well!
<img src='http://www.friechamp.net/ns_trustlayout.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
(Note: If I add the connection, I will of course move the team_command. Please also keep in mind that I cannot add big hallways throughout the map anymore due to engine limitations. )
Again thanks for the comments, as you see I'm working on the map to release a final version soon, which doesn't only look good, but plays good as well! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oooh sexy!
~ DarkATi
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does this mean I should add the connection or not? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1. this map looks great but has high poly count
2.needs more alternete routes
3.hives to exoposed to sieges
4.needs more vents
but other wise it is a good map nice textures
so good job <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask how can a hive be 'exoposed' to a siege? A siege cannon can fire through walls, therefore (no matter what) a hive is pretty much always exposed to a siege cannon.
Looking at the new minimap I would also say add the new route. It's looking fantastic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you look at some of the corridors around the hives, they double back on themselves or have dead ends near them. Both of these allow a comm to place siege very close to the hive, easily able to hit anything in the room, but to get to them the aliens will have to travel quite far.
I have changed the layout, cut a few res points and fixed a couple of other things (among them is most of the stuff DarkATi mentioned, thanks!). Nothing too exciting for a single player since the visuals haven't changed significantly. The big changes can only be noticed in playtests and that's what the beta is built for, but if you feel like you can have another walkthrough anyway <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.friechamp.net/ns_trustlayout2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I have neglected the siege cannon issue so far, I will see what I can do about it after I got the layout figured out. I'm quite confident about this version already though <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(but right now not even skulk can fit in it)
i noticeed that the vent in "fuel conductions" is to small for anything but other wise
great job! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(jeez cant put many smilys can ya)
np (most ppl would go down with a fight im proud of you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )