Distress Beacon
Grillkohle
Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24695Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24695Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Relocating makes Distress Beacon useless</div> I have noticed this problem a couple of times before, maybe it has been discussed already, but my search attempts didnt give me any results.
Anyway, the problem is that if the commander chooses to relocate to whatever reason, he also makes the distress beacon useless, because if the beacon is triggered, everyone will be teleported back(in 3.0)/respawned in marine start. Note: In marine start, not in the current marine base.
That means, for example, if the current marine base is maintenance hive in eclipse, and the commander has to use the beacon because the base is under heavy attack, all marines will respawn in marine start, which is far away from maintenance. By the time the marines reach maintenance the base will be gone.
I am just wondering if this is supposed to be an in-game feature, or if it is a bug that needs to be fixed. I think it would be better if all marines respawn around the observatory on which the beacon was triggered.
Anyway, the problem is that if the commander chooses to relocate to whatever reason, he also makes the distress beacon useless, because if the beacon is triggered, everyone will be teleported back(in 3.0)/respawned in marine start. Note: In marine start, not in the current marine base.
That means, for example, if the current marine base is maintenance hive in eclipse, and the commander has to use the beacon because the base is under heavy attack, all marines will respawn in marine start, which is far away from maintenance. By the time the marines reach maintenance the base will be gone.
I am just wondering if this is supposed to be an in-game feature, or if it is a bug that needs to be fixed. I think it would be better if all marines respawn around the observatory on which the beacon was triggered.
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Comments
I.E. a siege post is being put up, a lot of people die and you just keep beconing them back...
Calm your nerves troll. This can be abused, say you guys are on the brink of destruction and your OBS still stands. If you have the res, beacon and you could actually pull something off like a new base, granted you have the res to do so.
Changing distress beacon to bring your marines back at ANY arbitrary point in the map where the ip/cc/obs is would require quite a bit of coding.. Just think about it, each marine has to spawn far enough away from the other marines so they don't get stuck together, and in a safe place free of objects which could cause the player to get stuck. This would require a ton of time/effort, for something that really isn't all that important. Ofcourse the maps themselves could be changed to have safe spawn points assigned throughout the map... but I'm not sure many mappers would enjoy assigning hundreds of spawn points and checking them all for clearance, heh. If you relocate, you know going into it that you will lose your ability to use distress, plan accordingly...
It COULD be changed to spawn marines back in at the nearest Hive location I suppose, since there are set spawn points there as well. But the likeliness of that happening is really, really slim.... just a tad abusable.
Considering that there's no-build radius around all structures, including the obs, marines would have some room to teleport to the obs. Just follow these rules:
1) teleport destination points are calculated within the no-build radius around the obs, leaving enough room between points so that the teleported marines won't telefrag each other
2) a point is invalid if an IP cannot be dropped there (not considering the no-build radius), so no stuck issues
3) (optional) a point is invalid if it teleporting there would telefrag an alien or alien structure
4) destination points are first allocated to marines already within the no-build radius of the obs, so telefragging won't be possible
5) destination points are then allocated to dead/reinforcing marines
6) destination points are then allocated to other marines depending on their distance from the obs (smaller distance -> allocated first)
7) # of valid points = # marines teleported
So, it's feasible, but I imagine it would take some time to implement.
Considering that there's no-build radius around all structures, including the obs, marines would have some room to teleport to the obs. Just follow these rules:
1) teleport destination points are calculated within the no-build radius around the obs, leaving enough room between points so that the teleported marines won't telefrag each other
2) a point is invalid if an IP cannot be dropped there (not considering the no-build radius), so no stuck issues
3) (optional) a point is invalid if it teleporting there would telefrag an alien or alien structure
4) destination points are first allocated to marines already within the no-build radius of the obs, so telefragging won't be possible
5) destination points are then allocated to dead/reinforcing marines
6) destination points are then allocated to other marines depending on their distance from the obs (smaller distance -> allocated first)
7) # of valid points = # marines teleported
So, it's feasible, but I imagine it would take some time to implement.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what if the observatory were built near a thin wall, with no way in, but hollow on the other side. If I understood your method properly, the engine would trace the no build space around the observatory, find the space large enough to accomodate the hull of the marine, which could possibly be on the other side of the thin wall, and teleport the marine there. This would have a similar effect as phasing through various doors (ie: the weldable on ns_lost, or the old broken door in port engine on nancy).
Another problem with this method would be, it wouldn't respawn every marine instantly, which the point of distress beacon would be. Rather, it would only be able to spawn as many marines as you have space to squeeze into the no build circles of the observatory/observatories.
Also, the story line says that the marines are transported into the ship from another drop ship. Their logical transportation spot would be the spot in which the frontiersmen were originally transported in at, marine start, rather than in the middle of the ship, where there could possibly be nano gridlock.
for beacon to spawn you somewhere else it would take another engine, or a lot of spawn points.
edit: oops i forgot you dont have to spawn to a spawn point, but a spawn position (such as an ip) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
lets just take some of the suggested ideas and think about it for a sec
Suggestion #1) respawning marines at the nearest empty hive
Problem :) What if all the hives are taken.... would you rather have your marines spawn in marine start or not spawn at all?
Suggestion #2) Respawning at observatory
Problem :) 1 ninja marine heads to alien hive.... build observatory... get everyone on the marine team to type kill in console... use beacon and hive is as good as gone
if i missed any other ideas.... oh well.... lol....
Have them respawn in MS the way it is now...
Or have them respawn in the nearest spawn location without a hive...
(This includes MS)
So if all hives are taken then MS, but if MS spawn if further away than a closer, empty hive, then they spawn there...
TBH the way it works now is the best by far <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Problem <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> 1 ninja marine heads to alien hive.... build observatory... get everyone on the marine team to type kill in console... use beacon and hive is as good as gone
if i missed any other ideas.... oh well.... lol.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it just me or did he just describe a phase gate, though I doubt that a phase gate would be as costly as an obs/beacon. Also, why is there going to be a huge hollow section inside a wall? That's just begging people to /stuck through and build or acid rocket as fades. The best way to have a mobile beacon would be placing spawn points all over the map, but I don't think that would make the mappers too happy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, this wouldn't work with 3.0's beacon (all marines back to base).
But, it's cheaper to just make a phasegate.
But, phasegates don't ship in troops en masse at different locations in the room(spawn points), they only allow one at a time to go through every second.
And, it takes a while for thwarted phasegate marines to re-assemble and get through- moving through one at a time usually means instant death by 'gate-camping' aliens(nothing negative meant with the C word here).
Considering that there's no-build radius around all structures, including the obs, marines would have some room to teleport to the obs. Just follow these rules:
1) teleport destination points are calculated within the no-build radius around the obs, leaving enough room between points so that the teleported marines won't telefrag each other
2) a point is invalid if an IP cannot be dropped there (not considering the no-build radius), so no stuck issues
3) (optional) a point is invalid if it teleporting there would telefrag an alien or alien structure
4) destination points are first allocated to marines already within the no-build radius of the obs, so telefragging won't be possible
5) destination points are then allocated to dead/reinforcing marines
6) destination points are then allocated to other marines depending on their distance from the obs (smaller distance -> allocated first)
7) # of valid points = # marines teleported
So, it's feasible, but I imagine it would take some time to implement.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what if the observatory were built near a thin wall, with no way in, but hollow on the other side. If I understood your method properly, the engine would trace the no build space around the observatory, find the space large enough to accomodate the hull of the marine, which could possibly be on the other side of the thin wall, and teleport the marine there. This would have a similar effect as phasing through various doors (ie: the weldable on ns_lost, or the old broken door in port engine on nancy).
Another problem with this method would be, it wouldn't respawn every marine instantly, which the point of distress beacon would be. Rather, it would only be able to spawn as many marines as you have space to squeeze into the no build circles of the observatory/observatories.
Also, the story line says that the marines are transported into the ship from another drop ship. Their logical transportation spot would be the spot in which the frontiersmen were originally transported in at, marine start, rather than in the middle of the ship, where there could possibly be nano gridlock. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright, another rule:
8) a point is valid only if the obs has line-of-sight to the point
The number of marines teleported is indeed limited, but it's fine for average sized games (8v8). For larger games, the commander would have to adapt by placing 2 observatories if he really wants to distress all marines.
The story line can be interpreted differently. Think of the distress beacon as some sort of temporary mass IP.
<!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Jan 19 2004, 10:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Jan 19 2004, 10:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But see, if it spwans around the obs.. you sneak one marine into a hive, build an obs, then get all your marines to killthemselves, then beacon, and boom, 8 marines in their hive.. just repeat if they get beaten <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't distressing cost energy? Even if it doesn't, it would be a very risky venture since it's costly.
Calm your nerves troll. This can be abused, say you guys are on the brink of destruction and your OBS still stands. If you have the res, beacon and you could actually pull something off like a new base, granted you have the res to do so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He isn't 'trolling', he's quite correct. The Obs returning Marines to MS when a Distress Beacon is fired off is intended as a down side to relocation. Reloc is supposed to be a last-ditch effort. Personally, I hope that more negatives go in to return them to that state. In the meantime, the topic seems to have been adequately addressed, so...
<span style='color:red'>*LOCKED.*</span>