Article On European Opinnion Of The Usa
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Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
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<div class="IPBDescription">From ReadersDigest</div> There is no link to this on the web, so here is my source: Readers Digest, February 2004, pg. 37
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Target: America</span>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>In the fight against evil, Europe is taking aim - at us</span>
"Ugly Americans." It's an old insult, but these days it's got a vicious new spin among the European elite. Most Americans would be shocked to learn just how ugly their so-called European allies consider them. Read the press over there, and you’ll discover a United States that is thoroughly racist, a place simultaneously defined by greed and riddled with poverty, where the poor (millions upon millions of them) are oppressed for sport. You’ll learn about the American people, a semiliterate horde of culturally impoverished cretins. You’ll see American foreign policy described as a master plan for controlling the world. And those are the relatively friendly descriptions.
In Europe today, almost no hyperbole is considered illegitimate if employed to denounce the United States of its government. In the days before George W. Bush traveled to Britain last fall, Ken Livingstone, the mayor of London, described the American President as “the greatest threat to life on this planet we’ve most probably ever seen.” More threatening than Hitler? A greater danger than Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot? That’s right, said Livingstone. “The policies he is initiating will doom us to extinction.”
Livingstone wasn’t specific about which Bush policies were likely to exterminate the entire human race. He didn’t need to be. In Europe, his change needed no explanation. A recent poll of Europeans conducted for the European Commission asked which countries pose a threat to world peace. The United States tied for second, along with North Korea and Iran (Israel won the prize).
Some of the causes of this hatred are obvious, beginning with resentment over America’s growing power. We are richer and more influential than any European country, making those nations eager to see us brought down to size, if not humiliated. When we send troops into Kosovo to halt a genocidal conflict, we’re warmongers; when we pour billions into foreign aid, we’re imperialists; when we open a new Disneyland or McDonald’s on foreign soil, we’re polluters of culture.
Like all bigotries, European anti-Americanism tends toward the irrational. Often it can be comically lacking in self-awareness. “Strangely,” writes Jean-Francois Revel, “it is always in America that is described as degenerate and ‘fascist,’ where it is solely in Europe that actual dictatorships and totalitarian regimes spring up.”
Much has been made of the now-famous September 12, 2001, headline in the French newspaper, Le Monde. It read “We Are All Americans,” and it is true that there were many in Europe who, for a brief time anyway, sympathized with American suffering at the hands of terrorists. But in some quarters, people actually cheered the 9/11 attacks. Supporters of France’s National Front party reportedly celebrated with champagne as they watched the World Trade Center collapse.
It got worse from there. Less than two months after 9/11, the French writer and public intellectual Jean Baudrillard wrote this of the terrorist attacks: “Everyone without exception dreamt of this event, for no one can avoid dreaming of the destruction of any power that has become hegemonic to this extent. … It is they who acted, but we who wanted the deed.”
An isolated sentiment? One would like to think so. But no less a member of the European establishment than Michael Meacher, a British member of Parliament who for six years served in Tony Blair’s cabinet, wrote an op-ed last year accusing the United States government of welcoming the attacks of September 11. Meacher charged that the U.S. military had trained some of the hijackers, and may have deliberately ignored the planes as they approached their targets. It was all a conspiracy, Meacher writes, “an ideal pretext to use force to secure its global domination” and control the world’s oil supply.
If there was ever an example of blood libel, this is it. Yet the article seemed to stir almost no controversy in England, probably because its charges weren’t consider farfetched. There is at least one irony embedded in all of this America bashing. European elites are angered not simply by American power, but by their own weakness. Paris and London used to be at the center of the world. But they’re not anymore. If you’re a European intellectual, that’s frustrating. And yet hating American doesn’t make Europe more powerful. If anything, it makes Europe more irrelevant.
Thoughts and comments of this? Esp. from the Euro's.
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Target: America</span>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>In the fight against evil, Europe is taking aim - at us</span>
"Ugly Americans." It's an old insult, but these days it's got a vicious new spin among the European elite. Most Americans would be shocked to learn just how ugly their so-called European allies consider them. Read the press over there, and you’ll discover a United States that is thoroughly racist, a place simultaneously defined by greed and riddled with poverty, where the poor (millions upon millions of them) are oppressed for sport. You’ll learn about the American people, a semiliterate horde of culturally impoverished cretins. You’ll see American foreign policy described as a master plan for controlling the world. And those are the relatively friendly descriptions.
In Europe today, almost no hyperbole is considered illegitimate if employed to denounce the United States of its government. In the days before George W. Bush traveled to Britain last fall, Ken Livingstone, the mayor of London, described the American President as “the greatest threat to life on this planet we’ve most probably ever seen.” More threatening than Hitler? A greater danger than Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot? That’s right, said Livingstone. “The policies he is initiating will doom us to extinction.”
Livingstone wasn’t specific about which Bush policies were likely to exterminate the entire human race. He didn’t need to be. In Europe, his change needed no explanation. A recent poll of Europeans conducted for the European Commission asked which countries pose a threat to world peace. The United States tied for second, along with North Korea and Iran (Israel won the prize).
Some of the causes of this hatred are obvious, beginning with resentment over America’s growing power. We are richer and more influential than any European country, making those nations eager to see us brought down to size, if not humiliated. When we send troops into Kosovo to halt a genocidal conflict, we’re warmongers; when we pour billions into foreign aid, we’re imperialists; when we open a new Disneyland or McDonald’s on foreign soil, we’re polluters of culture.
Like all bigotries, European anti-Americanism tends toward the irrational. Often it can be comically lacking in self-awareness. “Strangely,” writes Jean-Francois Revel, “it is always in America that is described as degenerate and ‘fascist,’ where it is solely in Europe that actual dictatorships and totalitarian regimes spring up.”
Much has been made of the now-famous September 12, 2001, headline in the French newspaper, Le Monde. It read “We Are All Americans,” and it is true that there were many in Europe who, for a brief time anyway, sympathized with American suffering at the hands of terrorists. But in some quarters, people actually cheered the 9/11 attacks. Supporters of France’s National Front party reportedly celebrated with champagne as they watched the World Trade Center collapse.
It got worse from there. Less than two months after 9/11, the French writer and public intellectual Jean Baudrillard wrote this of the terrorist attacks: “Everyone without exception dreamt of this event, for no one can avoid dreaming of the destruction of any power that has become hegemonic to this extent. … It is they who acted, but we who wanted the deed.”
An isolated sentiment? One would like to think so. But no less a member of the European establishment than Michael Meacher, a British member of Parliament who for six years served in Tony Blair’s cabinet, wrote an op-ed last year accusing the United States government of welcoming the attacks of September 11. Meacher charged that the U.S. military had trained some of the hijackers, and may have deliberately ignored the planes as they approached their targets. It was all a conspiracy, Meacher writes, “an ideal pretext to use force to secure its global domination” and control the world’s oil supply.
If there was ever an example of blood libel, this is it. Yet the article seemed to stir almost no controversy in England, probably because its charges weren’t consider farfetched. There is at least one irony embedded in all of this America bashing. European elites are angered not simply by American power, but by their own weakness. Paris and London used to be at the center of the world. But they’re not anymore. If you’re a European intellectual, that’s frustrating. And yet hating American doesn’t make Europe more powerful. If anything, it makes Europe more irrelevant.
Thoughts and comments of this? Esp. from the Euro's.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Like all bigotries, European anti-Americanism tends toward the irrational. Often it can be comically lacking in self-awareness.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me... could it be that this text is a nice example of how "American anti-Europeanism tends towards the irrational" and how it "ofter can be comically lacking in self-awareness"?
To me this acticle is a piece propaganda with the aim to make the readers support their government and feel negative about the Europeans.
A few examples of "propaganda"-style writing in this article:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
In the fight against evil, Europe is taking aim - at us
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think in a "serious" article it would be "at the USA".
The term "at us" implies "Europe is aiming at YOU" (because "you" are part of "us").
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Livingstone wasn?t specific about which Bush policies were likely to exterminate the entire human race. He didn?t need to be. In Europe, his change needed no explanation.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I remember his statements had quite a lot of positive and negative feedback from the press and the public. Saying that in Europe a change does nto need any explaination is simply wrong. To me this part tries to imply that in Europe there is no "law and order", people change their positions whenever they feel like it and therefore are unreliable and bad allies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
There is at least one irony embedded in all of this America bashing. European elites are angered not simply by American power, but by their own weakness. Paris and London used to be at the center of the world. But they?re not anymore.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh come on. What is this going to imply? That Washington DC is the Center of the world now, I guess. Well, Rome used to be the center of the world, too. For a small poeple on an isolated island, their small village is the center of their world. And I think in Europe and America most people know that no city is the center of the world... unless it has become a disc overnight.
Of cource I know that it's just a picture, but even that is still wrong. The is NO center of the world, because the world is full of centers depending on what you're having a look at.
I just think this is a simple and bad "They are angry because we have bigger d***s than they do" picture.
Treating Europe as a whole is a very bad thing to do, too. Even saying "country XYZ hates America" is still a thing that serious journalists would/should not say, imo. YOu can make statements of the oppinion of a single person and sometimes groups of persons, but saying that an area hates American because there are people living in it that hate America in nothing but bad propaganda.
ALso i'd like to note that those europeans I know who might fit into a "hate America"-group (defined by this article) do not hate America (as it's idiotic and senseless to hate a country), but do not like the way the Government of the United States of America is doing their things.
Do I as European feel attacked / insulted by this article?
No, I don't, because I think it lacks the quality to be taken serious.
/Solaris
edit: quotes don't work...
1) Environment: America refused to sign the Kyoto treaty
2) War-crimes: The US is illegally imprisoning hundreds of people without giving them a reason why. The refusal to sign the ICC treaty
3) Anti-internationalism: Negligence of the Security council. Both remarks above.
4) Rough capitalism: fact is, millions of americans are suffering from malnutrition.
5) Aggressive foreign policy. Invading Iraq.
6) Forcing their will unto others. Sky marshalls. Genetically Modified Food. Etc.
7) Pro-Israel- policy. Funding and Backing Israel without any sign of criticism.
8) Conservatism. Not allowing **** people the same rights as other people. Etc.
Next to that, all I know of American culture is horrible sitcoms and Mac Donalds. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
O well, and Americans are just so patriotic and selfrighteous (generalization:))
I'll try to go through this paragraph by paragraph:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Ugly Americans." It's an old insult, but these days it's got a vicious new spin among the European elite. Most Americans would be shocked to learn just how ugly their so-called European allies consider them. Read the press over there, and you?ll discover a United States that is thoroughly racist, a place simultaneously defined by greed and riddled with poverty, where the poor (millions upon millions of them) are oppressed for sport. You?ll learn about the American people, a semiliterate horde of culturally impoverished cretins. You?ll see American foreign policy described as a master plan for controlling the world. And those are the relatively friendly descriptions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not only does the author attempt to make a generalized remark about nothing less than the press of the part of the world with the most and most diverse newspapers, an effort doomed from the outset, he also equals this imaginary 'voice of the European press' with the United States "so-called allies", a clearly political term, and <i>then</i> again, with "the European elite", a description so vague that I have really no idea who is hidden behind it.
By the end of the paragraph, the reader has the impression that the whole of Europe believes in a number of deliberately overdrawn clichés about the US. Oh, the irony.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In Europe today, almost no hyperbole is considered illegitimate if employed to denounce the United States of its government. In the days before George W. Bush traveled to Britain last fall, Ken Livingstone, the mayor of London, described the American President as ?the greatest threat to life on this planet we?ve most probably ever seen.? More threatening than Hitler? A greater danger than Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot? That?s right, said Livingstone. ?The policies he is initiating will doom us to extinction.?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can someone please tell me who died to make Ken Livingstone the spokesman of the European people? Citing Red Ken about America and then making it an indicator of general sentiment is like taking the most cold warring GOP representative you can find, ask him about the Social Democratic movement, and then take that as representative for the whole of not only the US, but Northern America <i>as a whole</i>.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Livingstone wasn?t specific about which Bush policies were likely to exterminate the entire human race. He didn?t need to be. In Europe, his change needed no explanation. A recent poll of Europeans conducted for the European Commission asked which countries pose a threat to world peace. The United States tied for second, along with North Korea and Iran (Israel won the prize).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, the author is linking a very extreme quote to a poll that can be interpreted quite differently. Note for example that this poll was taken in the wake of the Second Gulf War, which was recieved as an aggressive conflict by big parts of the demographics. Seeing this, the US administration <i>had</i> already endangered world peace. Quips about how Bush was going to condemn the human race to extinction are not really implicated by this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some of the causes of this hatred are obvious, beginning with resentment over America?s growing power. We are richer and more influential than any European country, making those nations eager to see us brought down to size, if not humiliated. When we send troops into Kosovo to halt a genocidal conflict, we?re warmongers; when we pour billions into foreign aid, we?re imperialists; when we open a new Disneyland or McDonald?s on foreign soil, we?re polluters of culture.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, now I get it. So, whatever an European - <i>any</i> European - says about possibly faulty policies of the US administration or parts of Corporate America, he's in fact only projecting some kind of genitalia envy.
The Kosovo conflict is by the way a horrible example, seeing that it had massive popular backing in both Germany and Great Britain, after all only two of the three biggest European countries.
(Note that I consider the UNs Kosovo policy faulty, but that's another matter entirely.)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Like all bigotries, European anti-Americanism tends toward the irrational. Often it can be comically lacking in self-awareness. ?Strangely,? writes Jean-Francois Revel, ?it is always in America that is described as degenerate and ?fascist,? where it is solely in Europe that actual dictatorships and totalitarian regimes spring up.?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can anyone around here supply three major European newspapers who derscribed America as a "fascist" state lately? Thought so.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Much has been made of the now-famous September 12, 2001, headline in the French newspaper, Le Monde. It read ?We Are All Americans,? and it is true that there were many in Europe who, for a brief time anyway, sympathized with American suffering at the hands of terrorists. But in some quarters, people actually cheered the 9/11 attacks. Supporters of France?s National Front party reportedly celebrated with champagne as they watched the World Trade Center collapse.
It got worse from there. Less than two months after 9/11, the French writer and public intellectual Jean Baudrillard wrote this of the terrorist attacks: ?Everyone without exception dreamt of this event, for no one can avoid dreaming of the destruction of any power that has become hegemonic to this extent. ? It is they who acted, but we who wanted the deed.?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note how a fringe right-extremistic and highly nationalistic party is suddenly considered mainstream European, while the fact that the vast majority of Europeans was as shocked and terrified by the attacks as most Americans is summarized into a half-phrase.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->An isolated sentiment? One would like to think so. But no less a member of the European establishment than Michael Meacher, a British member of Parliament who for six years served in Tony Blair?s cabinet, wrote an op-ed last year accusing the United States government of welcoming the attacks of September 11. Meacher charged that the U.S. military had trained some of the hijackers, and may have deliberately ignored the planes as they approached their targets. It was all a conspiracy, Meacher writes, ?an ideal pretext to use force to secure its global domination? and control the world?s oil supply.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't agree with Mr.Meachers assessment, but he is, once again, a single man. Member of the British parliament? Oh, yes. But now let's have a look at the American House of Representatives. One of its members once sprang up in the middle of a discussion and started shouting about how the CIA spied on the inhabitants of the Rocky Mountains from their black helicopters. Sometimes, nutjobs are being elected into office. It happens, everywhere, and I wouldn't start assuming that a whole district in America drops to the ground on the sound of rotors.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If there was ever an example of blood libel, this is it. Yet the article seemed to stir almost no controversy in England, probably because its charges weren?t consider farfetched. There is at least one irony embedded in all of this America bashing. European elites are angered not simply by American power, but by their own weakness. Paris and London used to be at the center of the world. But they?re not anymore. If you?re a European intellectual, that?s frustrating. And yet hating American doesn?t make Europe more powerful. If anything, it makes Europe more irrelevant.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"...And to reiterate, theirs is much smaller than ours!"
I wish I could do as easily away with criticism as that. Unfortunately, I tend to think.
Now, speaking as one of those 'angry Europeans', I don't hate America. I don't believe Americans are stupid, I don't think their art is degraded, I don't think their hearts are black. Hell, while typing this, I listened through 'Cure for Pain' by 'Morphine', a New English band, and I liked what I heard. I watch American movies, read American books, buy American goods, as I read, watch, listen, and consume British, French, German, Turkish, or Japanese literature, movies, music, food, or goods.
I'd however be naive to believe that amongst the inhabitants of what amounts to half of a continent, there are only people with the right ideas. I would also be naive to believe that the influence of the biggest economic power on Earth ends at its doorstep, and thus, I adopt a critical notion towards aspects of American policy or economy which I consider harmful. This is not anti-Americanism, it is merely the lack of blind following.
As for the general opinion in Europe, it is very difficult to attest such a thing. I'll agree that parts of each European countries population are indeed following anti-Americanistic opinions, as this article written by an American clearly showed anti-European sentiments. I would, however, doubt these sentiments to be in any kind of majority.
1) Environment: America refused to sign the Kyoto treaty<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Kyoto treaty wasn't good. If it harms us economically just so other countries can "catch-up" is not a good thing. Besides... How do we know that global warming is in fact occurring? Or that we are the actual cause of it? The Earth does go through these periods on its own, with or without our help. We've only been concerned about global warming for 50 or so years, not enough time to come to a conclusion ( heck, in the 70's I think it was, scientists were calling for another ice age! Well maybe they're onto something afterall since global warming is the reason Europe will get colder while the southern hemisphere warms. )
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) War-crimes: The US is illegally imprisoning hundreds of people without giving them a reason why. The refusal to sign the ICC treaty<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Illegal? These people are not POWs... Yet we have a vested interest in insuring that they are not free for the time being and that they supply us with as much information as possible. There is a reason why they are held prisoners... They are part of the Taliban or Al Queda. They fought against our invasion and thus are enemies that we can ( and do ) hold captive. If we're going to fight terrorrism, then expect terrorrists and their supporters to be imprisoned.
The US has no reason to join the ICC... Especially when its seen as another way for for those who disagree or dislike us to get back at us ( oops, was I supposed to use "USA" or "us"... I could've sworn that they both refer to America and Americans. Both are correct and neither is wrong. ).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Anti-internationalism: Negligence of the Security council. Both remarks above.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Negligence of the Security council? Negligence? Oh man! The US decided to do something without UN approval!! The Security Council only never agreed to the US invasion, it never voted and agreed against an invasion. Members of the Security Council may not have liked what the US and Britain did ( whoa... Is that two members of the Security Council? ), but it was our choice in the end. The UN does not rule over us, we have not given up our sovereignty to them.
We ( with help from others, including Britain ) did the world a favor and many are upset because we did not listen to them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4) Rough capitalism: fact is, millions of americans are suffering from malnutrition.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Many other countries have this flaw as well. It is one we are well aware of, but it is not that easy to solve. We never said we were perfect though.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5) Aggressive foreign policy. Invading Iraq.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Must be hard to get used to that at this point we're actually doing what we want more than doing as others want.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6) Forcing their will unto others. Sky marshalls. Genetically Modified Food. Etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's wrong with Sky marshalls? So we require Sky marshalls on a lot of flights now. So other countries will have to get used to this. Its in their best interest as well.
What's wrong with GM food? Nothing really. Do you know how much food is available to Africa that is not used? Tons and Tons... Why? Because of the EU. The EU wants Africa to buy their products and so many have been scared ( or forced ) into not using/buying GM food from the US.
I'd like you to find any "major power" that has not, or does not still to this day, forced its will unto others. Please go head. Try.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->7) Pro-Israel- policy. Funding and Backing Israel without any sign of criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We helped create Israel. There's nothing wrong with a Pro-Israel policy. We have actually critisized Israel... Not often, but it happens every now and then. Then again, we also have a different point of view on Israel and the Palestinians anyways. Israel is by no means innocent, but at this point they can do not good no matter what they do. They get "chastised" for protecting themselves from suicide bombers or they get blown up by suicide bombers when trying to make some form of peace. What can they really do? Leave? Yeah right.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->8) Conservatism. Not allowing **** people the same rights as other people. Etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm actually in somewhat of an agreement with you here, but you also have to understand American culture. There is a very large religious section of the population. If the US is really for the people and by the people, then their opinions will have an impact. By their POV homosexuality is wrong and a sin, so why should it be given any sort of legal status? This is a cultural conflict that will pass over time. Eventually the religious conservatives will lose, but it won't be easy and it wont be quick... But it will be through the law and not through bloodshed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next to that, all I know of American culture is horrible sitcoms and Mac Donalds. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
O well, and Americans are just so patriotic and selfrighteous (generalization:))<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We have some good sitcoms! No really! Only problem with MacDonalds is that there are better fast food places now ( although their McFlurries are pretty good! And their fries too! ). You can't fault them for spreading to other countries though, they are a business, that's what they're supposed to do. If people didn't like them then they wouldn't be there.
Ok... What's wrong with being patriotic? Last time I checked nothing. Of course we're going to believe that our country is better than all others. We have that right. There's nothing wrong with that... We wouldn't fault that in anyone else either.
Selfrightious? You mean we actually, for some odd reason, believe that we're right and that others are wrong? If we have an opinion on something and someone else differs on that opinion, then they better be prepared to prove that they are right and they better do a darn good job of it. I think you may not actually have a problem with our selfrigteousness... Its just that we're so freaking stubborn. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1) Environment: America refused to sign the Kyoto treaty
...
8) Conservatism. Not allowing **** people the same rights as other people. Etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A very large number of american citizens feel the same way about our government, too. Not necissarily with the specifics, but the general attitude.
Nem, I think he was just making a list, not trying to go in depth with all of them <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> But yeah, that would really hijack the thread with the details.
Also, I would take anything from Reader's Digest with a grain of salt. Lots of fluffy, feel-good stories about firefighters and whatnot, and then alarmist things like this too. There is some underlying truth: our administration does indeed deserve riticule, and they've realized/capitalized on the fact that we don't really <i>need</i> allies anymore. We aren't good neighbors, and the rest of the world would be foolish to follow us around like sheep.
If USA and Europe breaks apart, that's just great. No, really, as I'm part of that group who actually digs EU, and separation of Europe and USA makes more integrated EU more and more possible. If EU as a nation ever happens, THEN you can start vaguely blaming us for stuff if polls so indicate. Untill that, EU is not one.
Slighty ot:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Kyoto treaty wasn't good. If it harms us economically just so other countries can "catch-up" is not a good thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, so it doesn't harm other countries, but only USA? Right.
While the article never outright tells its (assumedly) American audience to think less of Europeans, the general themes within it are of this nature.
There seems to be a fostering of an 'us and them' mentality which is backed up by simoltaniuosly complementing the reader for being American (powerful) and insulting 'them'/ 'the others' for being European (ignorant).
It serves to discredit the opinion of critical Europeans (American policy cant be a fault, it must be some kind of racism towards America).
anyway, perhaps im taking this too far, but the article has few positives to speak of.
I believed that the writer was taking his viewpoint a little too far and is extorting the truth.
However, keep in mind that as we can look at this objectively, many people will take it to heart... and thus belive that most Europeans do indeed loathe the US.
I know the Euro's over there don't listen to their right/left wing morons in office (except for London's mayor being a communist fool... geez), but you Euro's should really worry about the USA citizens listening to them, because when news crosses the Alantic it's hard to keep things in perspective. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I never said that and you know it.
1) Environment: America refused to sign the Kyoto treaty
2) War-crimes: The US is illegally imprisoning hundreds of people without giving them a reason why. The refusal to sign the ICC treaty
3) Anti-internationalism: Negligence of the Security council. Both remarks above.
4) Rough capitalism: fact is, millions of americans are suffering from malnutrition.
5) Aggressive foreign policy. Invading Iraq.
6) Forcing their will unto others. Sky marshalls. Genetically Modified Food. Etc.
7) Pro-Israel- policy. Funding and Backing Israel without any sign of criticism.
8) Conservatism. Not allowing **** people the same rights as other people. Etc.
Next to that, all I know of American culture is horrible sitcoms and Mac Donalds. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
O well, and Americans are just so patriotic and selfrighteous (generalization:)) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. The Kyoto treaty is a sham that will put thousands of people out of work to increase air purity from 99.9% to 99.95%.
4. Oh really? Strange when a vast majority of the poor are obese. Kind of strange having a malnutrition problem in a country with an obesity problem don't you think?
6. Idiotic hippy talk of the dangers from people who know nothing about GMOs is ridiculous. Even still NOTHING is being forced on anyone. It's called trade, and you have to agree to it.
8. ****
Not to mention all of these are in regard to American politics, not Americans.
<b>It has become trendy and fashionable to despise Americans and the American way of life, while millions are suffering under oppressive regimes that do not have the freedom Americans do</b>. Get off your high horse.
You cant be serious here. You simply ignore the facts. Its PROVEN that the industrial puluation is responsible for the global warming. And its also PROVEN that its happening, now!
You cant just say ist bad for the economy, there are more important things in live than money! i consider life much more important!
Most EU states signed the Kyoto protocol, i dont think that we will lose so much in economy...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Illegal? These people are not POWs... Yet we have a vested interest in insuring that they are not free for the time being and that they supply us with as much information as possible. There is a reason why they are held prisoners... They are part of the Taliban or Al Queda. They fought against our invasion and thus are enemies that we can ( and do ) hold captive. If we're going to fight terrorrism, then expect terrorrists and their supporters to be imprisoned.
The US has no reason to join the ICC... Especially when its seen as another way for for those who disagree or dislike us to get back at us ( oops, was I supposed to use "USA" or "us"... I could've sworn that they both refer to America and Americans. Both are correct and neither is wrong. ).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope you know that there are CHILDREN, 13 year old CHILDREN in guantanamo, you know that?
And for the ICC, you cant say, were the best we can do what we want, that WRONG! What the USA does affects the whole world, you have to folow the rules as every one else. Its just ignorant
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Negligence of the Security council? Negligence? Oh man! The US decided to do something without UN approval!! The Security Council only never agreed to the US invasion, it never voted and agreed against an invasion. Members of the Security Council may not have liked what the US and Britain did ( whoa... Is that two members of the Security Council? ), but it was our choice in the end. The UN does not rule over us, we have not given up our sovereignty to them.
We ( with help from others, including Britain ) did the world a favor and many are upset because we did not listen to them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, usa is the best, we can do what we want.(thats exactly what i hate about the american politic) You CANT think like that. Without the UN the world wont work! We have one world, we all live in it. When you destroy it were all death, even you.
And i disagree that you did the world such a big favor, but thats another discussion.
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4) Rough capitalism: fact is, millions of americans are suffering from malnutrition.
Many other countries have this flaw as well. It is one we are well aware of, but it is not that easy to solve. We never said we were perfect though.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just by saying other have flaws as well you wont solve your problem or make it any better. I did that when i was 10 yeary old and my mom told me that i did something bad and i said that the others do it as well... your a nation, dont forget that.
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5) Aggressive foreign policy. Invading Iraq.
Must be hard to get used to that at this point we're actually doing what we want more than doing as others want.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again... were the best, usa forever, the others are idiots, we dont care. When the others are such idiots i dont see why you bother to free them from a dicator.
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6) Forcing their will unto others. Sky marshalls. Genetically Modified Food. Etc.
What's wrong with Sky marshalls? So we require Sky marshalls on a lot of flights now. So other countries will have to get used to this. Its in their best interest as well.
What's wrong with GM food? Nothing really. Do you know how much food is available to Africa that is not used? Tons and Tons... Why? Because of the EU. The EU wants Africa to buy their products and so many have been scared ( or forced ) into not using/buying GM food from the US.
I'd like you to find any "major power" that has not, or does not still to this day, forced its will unto others. Please go head. Try.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG!!!!!!!!
for sky marshals, you cant say thei are for our interest as well, its not you that has to dicide that, its our choice if we want them or not.
For the gen food. WHO told you that there is nothing wrong with gen food? Do you know all the riscs? do you know everything about them?
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7) Pro-Israel- policy. Funding and Backing Israel without any sign of criticism.
We helped create Israel. There's nothing wrong with a Pro-Israel policy. We have actually critisized Israel... Not often, but it happens every now and then. Then again, we also have a different point of view on Israel and the Palestinians anyways. Israel is by no means innocent, but at this point they can do not good no matter what they do. They get "chastised" for protecting themselves from suicide bombers or they get blown up by suicide bombers when trying to make some form of peace. What can they really do? Leave? Yeah right.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hahaha. Great fun. You created israel wich means they are ok? You that you "created" Bin laden and sadam hussein?
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Ok... What's wrong with being patriotic? Last time I checked nothing. Of course we're going to believe that our country is better than all others. We have that right. There's nothing wrong with that... We wouldn't fault that in anyone else either.
Selfrightious? You mean we actually, for some odd reason, believe that we're right and that others are wrong? If we have an opinion on something and someone else differs on that opinion, then they better be prepared to prove that they are right and they better do a darn good job of it. I think you may not actually have a problem with our selfrigteousness... Its just that we're so freaking stubborn. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
patriotism is not bad, BUT you can exagere. When you sing the national him every morning at school then this is for me like in the army. But patriotism together with Selfrightious is BAD. And even bader if you dont listen to the rest of the world and you dont care for the rest of the world.
To resume... people like you are the ones that the european dont like, the ones that think that the usa is the best country in the world and that they can do what they want. But i KNOW that there are other americans, i dont hate america, i have just a problem with their politics