The Command Interface
Varsity
Join Date: 2004-01-29 Member: 25687Members
Join Date: 2004-01-29 Member: 25687Members
<div class="IPBDescription">This is why I'm so slow as a comm!</div> I just read this and realised what a rant it had turned into - please bear in mind that I'm not trying to rant or sound angry. It just came out that way. Also, a lot of these things are because of restrictions in the engine, I know, but they are irritating nonetheless. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I mean the actual interface itself, in-game and when you are trying to use it. I just realised it sucks monumentally. Most of the time the map is viewed from either too close or too far away; if you make a group the rines will respawn away from the group but still with the same number (eventually you'll have group one is eight different places, and you have to re-group everyone). Issuing commands is a pain: aside from not being able to reliably tell players to build/weld/guard and the 'zero height' bug sometimes if you click on slopes the order isn't sent or you don't get feedback, you can't see who you have selected unless they are onscreen (seeing which group is active doesn't count), sometimes you will forget to deselect rines mistakenly order them somewhere you don't want them, in a lot of maps the ceiling sometimes gets in the way and obscures what's going on and most annoying of all, sometimes sounds cut out from the map so you can't hear gunfire and you end up not noticing the medpack/ammo/order requests and your team is lumping around an RT with no-one to build it. I swear sometimes order requests don't even show up but that's prolly just me.
I would *love* for the interface to be more C&C style. (remembering that several buttons like esc are taken up by the engine, this is the only style that can really be applied). So I can right-click any time I like to cancel or deselect (instead of issuing orders), having the build and equip buttons smaller and all displayed onscreen at once, perhaps in two auto-hiding columns up the side, better detection on drag select (sometimes it doesn't pick up a rine) and DEFINETELY support for shift + click selecting multiple rines.
Phew!
I mean the actual interface itself, in-game and when you are trying to use it. I just realised it sucks monumentally. Most of the time the map is viewed from either too close or too far away; if you make a group the rines will respawn away from the group but still with the same number (eventually you'll have group one is eight different places, and you have to re-group everyone). Issuing commands is a pain: aside from not being able to reliably tell players to build/weld/guard and the 'zero height' bug sometimes if you click on slopes the order isn't sent or you don't get feedback, you can't see who you have selected unless they are onscreen (seeing which group is active doesn't count), sometimes you will forget to deselect rines mistakenly order them somewhere you don't want them, in a lot of maps the ceiling sometimes gets in the way and obscures what's going on and most annoying of all, sometimes sounds cut out from the map so you can't hear gunfire and you end up not noticing the medpack/ammo/order requests and your team is lumping around an RT with no-one to build it. I swear sometimes order requests don't even show up but that's prolly just me.
I would *love* for the interface to be more C&C style. (remembering that several buttons like esc are taken up by the engine, this is the only style that can really be applied). So I can right-click any time I like to cancel or deselect (instead of issuing orders), having the build and equip buttons smaller and all displayed onscreen at once, perhaps in two auto-hiding columns up the side, better detection on drag select (sometimes it doesn't pick up a rine) and DEFINETELY support for shift + click selecting multiple rines.
Phew!
Comments
The escape key <i>does</i> cancel stuff. It only brings up the main menu if you don't have anything to cancel.
Commands work well enough considering you can just tell your marines to do something. If you don't have a mic, go spend 20 bucks on it. It's well worth it. The in-game orders are mainly so you can give locations, and they work fine for that.
you can zoom into the 'black' area of the map,but can't zoom out any more than the default comm view is.
i would see this as really helpful specifically on ns_origin, ventilation hive.
it sometimes really pisses me off how slow the screen moves...
and i dont think(with my little modding experiance, forgive me) that it would be too difficult to code... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Take a measurement from the highest point in the map to the lowest point in the map and / by two effectivly finding the middle. Then place the commander x units above this middle line where x is the commander height specified in the info_gameplay. This would definently need some tweaking and testing but it might be feasable. I have confidence in Flayra though. Even though the commander height is annoying sometimes, I think he knows what he's doing and if the commander heights need tweeking he'll get it done.
qwer
asdf
zxcv
So, for example, to spam three ammo packs the sequence is "E-A-click-A-click-A-click".
To drop an ip and armory at round start the sequence is "S-click-D-click".
If someone calls for medpacks hit spacebar then hit "E-S-click-S-click".
Combining hotkeys with the select all marines button means controlling pace should be a snap (even without voice, which i comm without all the time). You don't need seperate groups; your marines are people, they are smart enough to go where they are needed and not go if they're not.
I usually select all marines at round start and task them to squad 4 that way I can see if they're being damaged (the icon up top flashes if any one in the group is under attack). I also put my armory in group 1, my arms in group 2, and my obs in group 3, just for easy access. I use "3-A-click" a lot, for example (that's scan).
I can blame the game for making it easy to forget.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can't you see them big icons to the left letting you know what is needed and how many requests there are?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes, but like every other quote you pulled out this isn't always so easy when you are in the middle of a pitched game. I'm sorry that we can't all be as excellent as I'm quite sure you are, really I am. ¬_¬
useing the buttons is fine, you just got to memorize the hotkeys.
blink: i've been comming since 1.04, i've commed pugs, for clans, and what not, and I have the same gripes about the system. grow up please.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->sometimes if you click on slopes the order isn't sent or you don't get feedback<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well click at the top of the slope or the bottom.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sometimes you will forget to deselect rines mistakenly order them somewhere you don't want them<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just don't forget, how can you blame the game for you being forgetful?
"yeah i forgot to make an IP, freaking crappy game"
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you end up not noticing the medpack/ammo/order requests<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't you see them big icons to the left letting you know what is needed and how many requests there are?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I swear sometimes order requests don't even show up but that's prolly just me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Judging from this post I would say it's you.
It gets on my nerves when tards who havn't learnt the game properly blame the actual game for their downfalls and not their own lack of abilty.
Now I kidna do agree by the accidently giving wrong order cause you forgot that they were selected, happens to me occasionaly after I practice comming alot more.
What would be nice, is a list of the people I have select (or buildings) ont he left hadn side of the screen. and also on the right hand side, see what im upgrading.
Its not realy needed, it would just be nice.
qwer
asdf
zxcv
So, for example, to spam three ammo packs the sequence is "E-A-click-A-click-A-click".
To drop an ip and armory at round start the sequence is "S-click-D-click".
If someone calls for medpacks hit spacebar then hit "E-S-click-S-click".
Combining hotkeys with the select all marines button means controlling pace should be a snap (even without voice, which i comm without all the time). You don't need seperate groups; your marines are people, they are smart enough to go where they are needed and not go if they're not.
I usually select all marines at round start and task them to squad 4 that way I can see if they're being damaged (the icon up top flashes if any one in the group is under attack). I also put my armory in group 1, my arms in group 2, and my obs in group 3, just for easy access. I use "3-A-click" a lot, for example (that's scan). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hassle #1 Selecting and placing equipment
I gotta say what was the biggest part of my problem for being comm was what (e)kent mentionned. These days, instead of using my mouse to select equipment i ONLY use it to place equipment and cancel equipment. It makes comming way easier cuz i just look at the on screen menu and just pound on the qwer keys till i see the menu i want. Then I quickly match up the rest of the menu with the asdf and zxcv keys and select the equipment. And if I get it wrong and select the wrong one I just right click and try again.
You practice this and you get really fast with selecting stuff because even if you make mistakes its ok you get like 3-4 tries a second by just pounding the keys and rightclicking till you get it right.
So now I see how comms are able to spam medpacks so fast i just pound E-S-E-S-E-S and while im doing that i click wherever i wanna spam and it plops them down fast! And this is really good for when the game wont let you put stuff just anywhere cuz you can use your left hand to pound E-S continually and your right hand to move the cursor around, and click frequently until a medpak spawns somewhere that the game likes. This works great for spamming turrets to and now I build outposts FAST!
Hassle #2 Finding marines
And like some other dude said, use the mini map. i use the mini map and look for clusters of white dots or red dots to find marines and equipment and once im there i get E-S spam ready or pound qwer to get a piece of equipment ready. I mess up a lot on selection but rightclick is right there to cancel and so i get it right eventually like within 3-4 secs which aint bad and i figure i will get faster the more i use it.
Hassle #3 Selecting marines
the only other tough thing is picking specific marines cuz they move around a lot and if you are trying to select a bunch its hard so i solve that by being talkative. I just mouse over marines to see their names, and memorize 2 or 3 and give an order like "uh sexkitty, ubergod, and noobatron stay grouped and hit the triad res node and if they dont know where that is i SELECT ALL like that one guy said and click the way point and then add that if i didnt call your name you dont need to go. its sloppy comming, its not precise but it really works!
Hassle #4 The big picture: strategy
Once all that selecting and building is done and is easy to do, you can finally start working on being a good commander and forming a strat.
in the early game i say find me a couple res nodes. then i try to lock down a hive OR try to cause trouble by hurting the aliens, either rushing a hive, killing res nodes, taking double res areas, etc. Some other advice a guy gave me was that you cannot peacefully coexist with aliens. What that means is that this is not Warcraft. What I mean by that is that you cant sit in your part of the map and build and hope the aliens dont come knocking. if you dont hassle the aliens early THEY will show up at your door early. Aliens always win the sit, build, and coexist game. You gotta attack stuff that will hurt them early in the game like gorges, res nodes, and if they got a fade hunt that punk down before he gets bold and starts destroying all your electrified res. Aliens usually dont have a leader so you can break their spirit if you kill some of their gorges and adv. aliens early on.
a lot of it it really comes down to the marines and what they wanna do because if they suck or dont know how to play then i cant do anything anyway so i just kinda go with the flow and go for general goals but i try to make key points like the ones i mentionned above when i play comm or even when im a grunt. it usually works out fine and i make a game out of it.
Sub-Hassle #3a Spending res wisely
As the game moves forward watch your res. you are looking for two things: how fast its increasing and how much you got. if its not increasing tell your marines to find more res and defend the ones you got. if you see that you got a fair amount of res start going through the tech tree getting upgrades, and technology. Medspam and ammospam marines if you've got res flowing and the marine is doing something important.
Conclusion
it seems like a lot to keep a hold of in your head but once selecting and placing equipment becomes second nature you wont have to think about it and then you have plenty of time for strats.