Anti-cheat +lags

klauskalle · October 2002

1.
i was just wondering about anti-cheat software and NS
how about some anti-cheat-software included in the NS-installer?<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>???

2. will this game also be playable with high-pings?
big maps also can cause some ingame-lags, are the any problems known (@PTs)?<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>???

Surge · October 2002

1- Not sure.
2- Half-life has been pretty nice to High-pingers. However, it can lead to heated shoutings ("I WAS BEHIND TEH WALL!!1!"). If the weapons are client-side, you'll probably find it easier to play. I hear the team is tweaking the netcode and everything (I hear that, in every game, Flayra asks "So how's the netcode? It's been tweaked a bit..."), so you'll probably be able to enjoy yourself.

CollateralDamage · October 2002

What is "anti-cheat-software"?

Maveric · October 2002

OGC wont work. there is only one hit box; thus, no head shots.

anti cheat software is something like Cheating-Death( www.cheating-death.com i belive) and punkbuster(obsolete i think)

PS: OGC is a famous CS cheat that allows you to get your first shot on the enemies head befor he can get yours.

TychoCelchuuu · October 2002

OGC also aims for you and I think it fires for you. THAT is an unfair advantage, even if headshots don't exist.

CollateralDamage · October 2002

Oh, but there is hardly a reason to include Cheating Death in the installer, is there? I certainly wouldn't keep it, and neither would the cheaters...

coil · October 2002

Re: high ping - I've played at 400 ping with no appreciable problems. Flayra's netcode is so sweet, it's outselling chocolate.

Re: cheating -
VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) software does not support NS yet, but I'm guessing that it will by the next patch. One of the playtesters brought an aimbot to play one day, to test it out, and found the aimbot gets confused by the complexity of NS (specifically, the large number of sprites used). It is also of limited effectiveness without headshot hitboxes.

Daxx · October 2002

Considering the large amount of "researchable" features that are in NS that are similar to other games cheats, it kinda renders redundant any form of cheating.

The only way of cheating I could see would be an aimbot (which coil discredited), and somebody writing some cheat to increase resource points. Don't know how that could be done, seeing as I presume such settings are hard-coded into the game.

Angel · October 2002

Aimbots would work, and I know a few wallhacks that definately would work. NS will be a big game, and there is one cheating site that covers big games/mods, the url is below. I am only giving this link in so if they do support NS fully you will know who has started it, also Wallhacks for normal Half-Life work in all mods unfortuantely.

<a href="http://www.dontpostcheatlinksplease.com" target="_blank">Online Gaming Cheats (OGC) Official Webpage</a>

Vyvn · October 2002

Lol, nice URL Angel.

*edit* Or would that be Fam?

Comprox · October 2002

Since Half-Life is such an easily moddable game, it hsa the big problem of cheating. Valve is thankfully trying their hardest to get a good anti-cheat program out there for the more popular mods. Unfortunately, the NS dev team does not have near the experience as other people with detecting and stopping cheats. Also, they are much too busy just trying to get the first version out.
Everyone expects a mods release to be as good quality as CS or DoD or TFC is now, and well guys, no mod will be. Unless you wait another year <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Llama_Killer · October 2002

No please not that I cant wait any longer my head will explode.... BOOOOOOM!
(We don't need large, annoying, colorful text to get the point)

Thansal · October 2002

lol, nice and fast Fam (god I love the mods on this board ;D)

ok here is some stuff on Cheating:
to preface actualy, I know alot of this due to being a tech junkie, playing HL for many years, and having tried almost all hacks out there ;D

ok first of GC != Aim bot
OGC contains ALOT of stuff in it, Aimbot, wall hacks, Sound 'radar' (takes the 3D audio data and creates a radar from it, very cool), Speed Hack (it will get thruogh the destributed anti cheats like PB, CD etc)
I have not tested OGC after VAC, so I don't know what VAC does to counter act stuff

ok, now for how this aplies to NS:
1) aimbots, aparently NS is good enough to confuzel em (very amuzing, lol). Next up is that there are no HS thus aimbot is not NEARLY as deadly. Also the aliens don't have hitscan weps (Klik'N'Kills)(so far as I know) thus aim bot = no point)
Next up on aimbots: Though they could give you an advantage with marines, there is the problem of Cone fire, marine weps are not dead on acurate (well most of em, it would be good with the pistol) thus creating more problems.
Also aim bots are sorta esay to pick up on if you spec some one

Wall Hacks, once we have VAC, no more
basicaly of what I know of VAC, we don't have much to worie about (and we will have VAC seing how as NS is on Steam)

and here is a side note, if you think some one is cheating, simply Spec them, take a movie of it, inform the Mods of what you think, they will take care of it.

basicaly don't Scream cheater and ppl, all that does is make real cheaters laugh b/c you can't do squat and #### the crap out of those of us who don't cheat

ok /me done [/rant]

QwertyMcDunkin · October 2002

Reminds me of when one of the people on the other team in a scrim (CS) was caught by VAC. He rejoined and tried to deny it. Just goes to show some cheaters will say they don't after being caught. As you might have guessed that clan disbanded. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'> <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/pudgy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::gorge::'>

Necro · October 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Angel @ Oct. 05 2002,13:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Aimbots would work, and I know a few wallhacks that definately would work. NS will be a big game, and there is one cheating site that covers big games/mods, the url is below. I am only giving this link in so if they do support NS fully you will know who has started it, also Wallhacks for normal Half-Life work in all mods unfortuantely.

<a href="http://www.dontpostcheatlinksplease.com" target="_blank">Online Gaming Cheats (OGC) Official Webpage</a></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
you should be shot for posting that address ><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

also wallhacks...builtin!

aimbots...coil discredited!

Relic25 · October 2002

Yeah, a definite plus to NS as far as discouraging cheating is simply that most 'cheats' are already part of the game!

Not that any kind of aimbot or wallhack will help a lone marine against a rampant level 5. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Legionnaired · October 2002

PLus the fact that most people that cheat are also people like the myg0t's, who are basically, in the truest meaning of the word, buttmunches, who will not play on a team at all, unless there's a lot of them, in which case they'll be banned by the admin, or all the other players will leave.

Now, if someone hacks on the alien side, they wont get any major advantage, save seeing where stuff is, and if the yhack on the marine side, they'll show some loser-ish tendancies and won't get any guns.

CollateralDamage · October 2002

You must always keep in mind that myg0ts and those who are like them don't use cheats to get lots of frags, they do it to cause anger and frustration. They are a 'raging' clan, not a cheating clan.

If we all keep a cool head and laugh about them, they have already lost.

Thansal · October 2002

CD it is imposible to just 'laugh it off' when a griefer (good word ;D) decides to ruin a game

personaly I don't like sitting infront of my computer doing jack ####, or even worse atempting to do something and having it be pointless

Thus why if a griefer does show up I either notify admins or just leave (simple aint it?)
never EVER ##### b/c that will just make em happy

oh PS something I lefto ut on my cheating rant

it is IMPOSSIBLE to do things like get more RPs, evolve faster, make things build faster etc (this is assuming that Flay is not an idiot, and seeing how as we know he aint, it dosn't mater)
this is b/c these are all SERVER side stuff, the only way to messwith this is to hack the server and alter filles, yah guess what you cant do that <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Moebius · October 2002

It isnt impossible to laugh them off. I do it all the time in one simple line in the console. admin_csay HAHAHAHAHA;wait;wait;wait;*500million;admin_kick dude

Boneless · October 2002

The best anticheat out there is the VAC... Since NS is not supported (yet ) by VAC, we can rely in other software like HLGuard by United Admins. HLguard has a pretty good Wallhack blockn and a other nice features...

Anyway, the optimal solution is VAC. Since NS will be a Steam Powered app I expect futher collaboration between VALVe and the NS team to bring us a VAC enabled NS someday. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Bill · October 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (CollateralDamage @ Oct. 05 2002,17:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If we all keep a cool head and laugh about them, they have already lost.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Please, these aren't little children, reverse psychology doesn't work. These are complete and total losers who have nothing better to do with their time than to ruin other games for people, if you laugh it off they'll still know it's getting to you. Sadly, just because you cheat doesn't mean you're a complete idiot.

(Why does thansal know everything that comes in OGC? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>)

Harpoon · October 2002

So the only thing left for hackers to use is wallhack.... and since the aliens allready have one of a sort then hackers might use this to make one for the marines too... but you cant shoot through walls anyway so it looses alot of its usefullness.. its not like CS where you can shoot someone from around the corner:

<a href="http://eg.redphive.org/inflames/palidorhax2.avi" target="_blank">http://eg.redphive.org/inflames/palidorhax2.avi</a>

or something, the gameplay is too fast for that.
Lets hope that NS doesn't get screwed by the lamers <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Mouse · October 2002

I'm wondering, would anti-cheat software block hive mind and the motion detector because it thinks someone is using a wallhack? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Messenjah · October 2002

Necessity is the mother of invention.

The more you all convince yourselves that it is impossible or pointless to hack/cheat, the more you are setting yourselves up for a massive kick to the go-nads.

If your going to spread your legs, invest in a cup.

Legionnaired · October 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Mouse @ Oct. 05 2002,23:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm wondering, would anti-cheat software block hive mind and the motion detector because it thinks someone is using a wallhack? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No.

Because this is data that the server is sending to the client anyway, not data that the client is pulling from the server...

I think....

Harpoon · October 2002

...Interesting point of view

CS is like that because its fiercly competeteive: people use hacks because everyone else does, clans even more so because they care the most about winning.

but in the end it ruins the game.

Sgt_X · October 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Mouse @ Oct. 05 2002,15:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm wondering, would anti-cheat software block hive mind and the motion detector because it thinks someone is using a wallhack? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Unless Flay did something realy weird no in most cases. The only exeption a I can think of is one that instead of detecting a known cheat instead prevents the cheat from working by not allowing anything not in the players POV to be drawn. It screwed up the radar in CS and would probably do the same for NS.

But VAC works on more conventional methods I think, it's just that since every server is supposed to auto update its self it's much easier to stop new cheats as they come out.

Anti-cheat +lags

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