Skulks
BOBDolol
Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21431Members
Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21431Members
Comments
The skulk seems really powerful in combat sometimes, but I find it rediculously (sp?) easy to kill them..
It's even worse in classic..
I also find it totally **** up that a lvl3 carapace skulk can get killed by ONE BLOW FROM A SHOTGUN! If they want that balanaced, focus should kill a lvl3a rine in one bite..
Maybe a good tweak for shotgun would be that it only makes 66% or 80% dmg when you have carapace, and make it do less damage to fade (like 80%) and about 50% against oni..
It seems that shoutgun is the ultimate anti-everything at the moment, at least I dont think it should be that way.
Advanced lifeforms should take advanced weaponary to take out. End of story.
1. When the enemy sees you, you've already lost, because he will shoot and then you have not enough energy to attack before getting killed.
2. Versus shotguns you are just lucky, if the enemy sees you on long distance. Short or midrange is deadly for you as a skulk.
3. Then mines and grens - BOOM you are dead
4. Marines can still shoot around corners and ramps.
Its fist versus bullet.
Some handicaps for the marines would be nice too
When they have lvl 3 weapons, you should have a defensive upgrade. Or maybe you're not a skulk anymore.
And you should also be on the roof above them. Hee hee. Etc.
Er, that's assuming aliens go defense first or second. And since that assumption is correct but <i>should not</i> be correct, something needs fixing.
I've also noticed that it's really easy to get level 3 weapons. I see them way before marines start dropping HA. Perhaps the research time/cost should be bumped up.
Ive always thought of shotguns a problem but they never seem to have anything done to them. It destroys aliens fast and destroys buildings like nothing other. Nades and siege should really be the only effective weapons to destroy buildings. With the lower OC hp (well i think its lower or im experiencing somin wierd) shotguns kill them in a few hits, it just seems wrong. Although i just find OCs really crap now in general unless u have loads of em. Ive had trouble healing an OC that is been shot by 1 lmg. Doesnt seem right considering a room with a few turrets is impassable for skulks
Bad players become as weak as skulks were in 1.04.
It's all about your movment skill as a skulk now, it really matters. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Certainly some players are adapting more easily then others, but its not just good players vs bad players. I am an excellent skulk in 2.01, with or without upgrades I can usually take down a handful of LAs before dying. In 3.0 I can ambush a marine from directly behind and still not manage to kill him.
You mean marines getting knocked back whenever they jump and get bitten? That's in 2.0..
Personally, I find it more disturbing that a skulk is killed by 9 lvl 0 lmg shots - or 4 lvl 0 pistol shots - than 7 at lvl 3 weapons. Even with carapace, the skulks die at 13 lvl 0 LMG shots, which is kinda weak compared to 19 in 1.04 and 15 in 2.0.
There is a reason good marines can just fan out individually (aka, go rambo) and expect to kill more than their numbers worth of skulks, gorges and RT at the start of the game.
A couple of marines with excellent aim and electrified RT's can win the game pretty quickly.
Actually, in game; it seems like 1. You know; peek around the corner, <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> , spawn. With carapace, it's actually 2. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Reducing skulk armor back to 1.04 level was the biggest mistake of v3, IMO. Remember why DC was always the first chamber? Now it's exactly the same...
That's why I am one of those people, who stack marines and cause uneven teams <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I still do really well as a skulk TBH. The three things you have to learn as a skulk are stealth, movement, and aim. In other words you have to learn to minimize the distance between you and the marine(and put yourself behind them if possible), make yourself hard to hit while you cover what's left(i.e. bunnyhopping or at least jumping in diagonal lines), and finish them quickly while you get there. Aliens have gotten too used to the rambo skulk concept, I think.
The only time skulks really have problems is when marines are grouped up in one place and holding down an area without any vents or anything(which can still be broken with some teamwork and Leap). In that case you can use Lerks/Fades/Onoses, all of which are extremely easy to get the res for now... Skulks need upgrades and a second hive to take down higher teched LAs, as they should. Don't expect to do well if you're hoarding res and don't want to invest in Cara/Silence/Focus.
Bad players become as weak as skulks were in 1.04.
It's all about your movment skill as a skulk now, it really matters.
I also think shotguns need to be worse against structures, maybe 50% dmg?
Marines should play as a team, and these changes are therefor necessary.
Bad players become as weak as skulks were in 1.04.
It's all about your movment skill as a skulk now, it really matters. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Certainly some players are adapting more easily then others, but its not just good players vs bad players. I am an excellent skulk in 2.01, with or without upgrades I can usually take down a handful of LAs before dying. In 3.0 I can ambush a marine from directly behind and still not manage to kill him. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is because in 2.01 skulks had huge hitboxes, but made up for it by being tough. Before you would just drop on them and, even though they would hardly miss you, you would die. Now you just drop in on them and if you aren't fast or make the right moves they will kill you.
Skulks are finally at a good balance, being that they are easy to kill and hard to kill at the same time, depending on what it's user does.
This is how the skulks should have been since day 1.
I also think shotguns need to be worse against structures, maybe 50% dmg?
Marines should play as a team, and these changes are therefor necessary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, we need to go further. Cap the speed of the marine to something like 10% of the original value while shooting. Better yet, cap the speed if there's just an alien around. And if that doesn't help, and we still see some marines killing a skulk, then disable run / walk, and make the marine sit still, so the skulk can get some bites in.
<!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously, we don't need to nerf the moving anymore in NS, it's bad enough that the Marine can't jump properly anymore since 2.0. I don't want to play CS with Aliens. But I agree that the pushback effect when biting should be removed, because that gives the stupid / ignorant / deaf marine, that didn't bother to look back, an unfair advantage.
Bad players become as weak as skulks were in 1.04.
It's all about your movment skill as a skulk now, it really matters. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What really matters is how good the marine is. If he is good, you will be dead no matter your skill.
Skulks rule now. As a Marine I can drop, two - three with a level 0 LMG if they have no armor, and sometimes another with the pistol, and on the rare occasion, finish off the last one with a knife (if I got enough connected hits with a pistol to wound him enough). Yet, as a Skulk, it's not uncommon for me to take down three to six Marines per death (at once in one run, no healing).
Skulks aren't tanks, they are small, agile, maneuverable, and easily made to avoid Marine accuracy. Most people don't realize this. Bunny hoppers, for example, may have increased speed, but I find it all too easy to predict their motions. Unless your name is Nadagast, I've never seen anyone bunny hop while leaping. Some things are just scary. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> And the rest just run in a straight line, making shooting them almost seem cruel.
Bad players become as weak as skulks were in 1.04.
It's all about your movment skill as a skulk now, it really matters. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What really matters is how good the marine is. If he is good, you will be dead no matter your skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true.
Skulks rule now. As a Marine I can drop, two - three with a level 0 LMG if they have no armor, and sometimes another with the pistol, and on the rare occasion, finish off the last one with a knife (if I got enough connected hits with a pistol to wound him enough). Yet, as a Skulk, it's not uncommon for me to take down three to six Marines per death (at once in one run, no healing).
Skulks aren't tanks, they are small, agile, maneuverable, and easily made to avoid Marine accuracy. Most people don't realize this. Bunny hoppers, for example, may have increased speed, but I find it all too easy to predict their motions. Unless your name is Nadagast, I've never seen anyone bunny hop while leaping. Some things are just scary. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> And the rest just run in a straight line, making shooting them almost seem cruel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you got any links to demos (3.0) where Exigent | Nadagast is playing? :o
In 3.0, 1-Hive Skulks take 90 damage to kill, or 130 with Carapace
However, 2 Hive Skulks take 95, 145 with Carapace
3 Hive skulks now take 100, 160 with Carapace.
So a 3-Hive Carapaced skulk is actually slightly tougher. All others are slightly weaker. But these are all very slight changes...I can't imagine that 25 extra health really makes that huge of a difference. I can't say I've come up with an alternative theory for whats changed...although it should be mentioned that Armor2 LAs now take 4 bites instead of 3 bites. That might have a little to do with it.
In 3.0, 1-Hive Skulks take 90 damage to kill, or 130 with Carapace
However, 2 Hive Skulks take 95, 145 with Carapace
3 Hive skulks now take 100, 160 with Carapace.
So a 3-Hive Carapaced skulk is actually slightly tougher. All others are slightly weaker. But these are all very slight changes...I can't imagine that 25 extra health really makes that huge of a difference. I can't say I've come up with an alternative theory for whats changed...although it should be mentioned that Armor2 LAs now take 4 bites instead of 3 bites. That might have a little to do with it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought it only took 11 shots in 2.01 to kill a skulk, so only 110 damage is nessesary to kill a skulk.
Next, one or two extra bullets to kill a skulk is EVERYTHING, it really is a big difference when you start looking at it...