If I may add to Nem's statement I would also like to point out the poractive enforcement of values and positive reinforcement will and do work better than retroactive punishment and negative reinforcement.
It's useless to try to shelter a child from reality, and then punish them when they do something you haven't even told them they shouldn't. If you want to be an effective parent (eventually) love your child and make it known to them that you do, don't be one of the parents that's ashamed to express love. Instead of forcing your beliefs on a child simply tell them if they do such and such you would be hurt and disapointed, reward them for good behavior, let them know bad behavior hurts you as a parent. Because as far as prevention goes hearing your mother or father say "I'm dissapointed in you." and then walk away, would do a heck of a lot more than "I'm a whip you good, boy." heh.
America was founded by Puritans. The puritanical doctrine is still very embedded in our culture. One of its main tennents was that the human body and sexuality were abominations against God and never meant for public viewing or discussion. Centuries later, there are still <i>some</i> (not all, some; note that 60 million Americans watched the superbowl and 220,000 were offended enough to write in - that's 0.03 percent) people that were raised with such tennets in mind. Why do people follow such outdated and ancient prejudices? Because some people don't like change, and they cannot comprehend it. Why do so many eastern Canadians loathe Americans? Because 200 years ago, they <i>were</i> Americans - Tories that supported Britain who fled north after the end of the war to the nearest royal settlements. Do their ancestors have any reasons to hate the US? Not really, but that's how they were raised.
Luckily, the puritanism is definitely on the downswing. Witness any modern MTV music video, look at the latest clothing lines, etc. and you will see that as the previous generations whither up and die, so do many of their social morays. On the other hand, one would think that after the swinging 20's, we'd all be writing this naked right now, but it did not come to be. The pendulum swings back and forth, not unlike an aging pop star's right knocker. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Or in other words, it's a tempest in a teatpot. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
By calling it "filth ridden smut", you're implying a degree of improper behavior that the event didn't come close to. The accidental showing of her breast, which she's apologized for profusely, isn't that bad. You make it sound like the half-second of breast is equivalent to something like a hardcore S&M video.
The whole thing, news coverage, lawsuits and righteous indignation, is a total waste of time. Breasts are a perfectly normal part of human anatomy. Explaining things about sexuality to children isn't giving them a copy of Hustler and telling them to come back when they've learned something.
As he said conservatism and liberalism are on a sort of seesaw, with each generation either more liberal or more conservative then the last. The hippies of the 60's were folloewd by leisure suits of the 70's that were followed by the transgendered punks of the 80's that spilled over into the 90's that are now being followed by the bible thumping fundamentalists of the 2000's.
Sif us bible thumpers are growing. There aint any more of us, we are just hitting the Bibles harder to a double beat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The conservatism started in the late 90's (clinton anyone) and will probably die off in a few years, I'd say 2010-2020 is gunna be a very liberal time. There is constant pressure to finally decriminilize marijuna once and for all, homosexuals are finally gaining some rights in this country, there's propisitions although in its infancy, to decriminilze prostitution in California, and censorship is taking daily beatings in most forms of media.
<!--QuoteBegin-dr.d+Feb 9 2004, 05:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Feb 9 2004, 05:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now I'll add onto MonsE point, mwa ha.
As he said conservatism and liberalism are on a sort of seesaw, with each generation either more liberal or more conservative then the last. The hippies of the 60's were folloewd by leisure suits of the 70's that were followed by the transgendered punks of the 80's that spilled over into the 90's that are now being followed by the bible thumping fundamentalists of the 2000's. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think there's more bible thumpers, just that the ones there are are just yelling louder and getting more attention. This entire "incident" is one of the ways they are getting said attention.
As for all of this, I think it's stupid what the woman and others are doing. I personally believe that a bit of flogging is in order, but that's a different story... The only reason this stuff is getting so much attention in the media is because you all are WANTING it to get this amount of attention. The media only tells what will get ratings, and at that point in time, it was a bit of a strip tease. Same with the Iraq war, 9/11, Desert Storm, Vietnam, Hippies, Korea, WWII, WWI.... Tired of it, then stop watching. Turn off the TV, and either go out for a walk or play a video game or just change the channel. Do to this like you would to a kid throwing a temper tantrum, just ignore them and do your daily buisness. Watching them will just promote them doing it, and pointing and laughing will just make them cry and get a buncha angry parents wanting to lynch you.
As for the child rearing parts, it goes back to when the parents were kids and when they wanted something, they usually got it, not to mention the morals back then were much stricter. When their kids become teenagers, most parents still think of them as kids that need guidance (which is usually the wrong kind) instead of a young adult that needs to learns lessons for themselves. The problem, a lot of these lessons, they end result is a body bag, yellow tape and a few eulogies...
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 9 2004, 06:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 9 2004, 06:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+Feb 9 2004, 01:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Feb 9 2004, 01:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The reason this is offensive to American's is because we happen to have young children watch the super bowl. You know, below 10 years of age.
Next thing you know, they see a boob during what is supposed to be a good game of a sport, not some filth ridden smut they could find on HBO or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG! A breast! You mean, what they were fed with and their mother has?
There's nothing offensive about seeing a breast. Like I said, if JJ was performing some lewd sexual act then that would be considered inappropriate material for a 10 year old (or anyone under 16) to be watching. Honestly Forlorn what makes seeing a breast so bad? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because it's a cultural difference you will never understand untill you live in the US.
Some things in the US we are childish about, and on other things were a too loose with.
And to think I thought you understood a bit about cultures...
Why did the romans enjoy bloodbath gladatorial games?
Why did Napolean enjoy smelly women (or the french)?
Why were fat women considered to be most attractive at one point(cause they were rich)?
Why was it considered to be more attractive when pale, but it's more attractive to be tan?
Come on people, use your heads on this one, it's not that tough to figure out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Man if they had gladitorial games today id be all over it and so would a lot of people. Were all a bunch of filthly bloodthirsty animals, not just the Romans.
<span style='color:white'>Take the next seven days as an opportunity to read up on <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43638' target='_blank'>Rule</a> #1, #2 and #3.</span>
I can't understand why people are so concerened a breast was on television, its the reasoning she did it/it happend that disturbs me. PUBLICITY STUNT. Sigh...
One breast, so what? It certainly isn't a good thing but honestly people are spending way too much time on it. The FCC and other official organizations are investigating using our tax dollars something that isn't that big a deal.
Comments
It's useless to try to shelter a child from reality, and then punish them when they do something you haven't even told them they shouldn't. If you want to be an effective parent (eventually) love your child and make it known to them that you do, don't be one of the parents that's ashamed to express love. Instead of forcing your beliefs on a child simply tell them if they do such and such you would be hurt and disapointed, reward them for good behavior, let them know bad behavior hurts you as a parent. Because as far as prevention goes hearing your mother or father say "I'm dissapointed in you." and then walk away, would do a heck of a lot more than "I'm a whip you good, boy." heh.
Simplified, guilt > pain.
Luckily, the puritanism is definitely on the downswing. Witness any modern MTV music video, look at the latest clothing lines, etc. and you will see that as the previous generations whither up and die, so do many of their social morays. On the other hand, one would think that after the swinging 20's, we'd all be writing this naked right now, but it did not come to be. The pendulum swings back and forth, not unlike an aging pop star's right knocker. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Or in other words, it's a tempest in a teatpot. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The whole thing, news coverage, lawsuits and righteous indignation, is a total waste of time. Breasts are a perfectly normal part of human anatomy. Explaining things about sexuality to children isn't giving them a copy of Hustler and telling them to come back when they've learned something.
As he said conservatism and liberalism are on a sort of seesaw, with each generation either more liberal or more conservative then the last. The hippies of the 60's were folloewd by leisure suits of the 70's that were followed by the transgendered punks of the 80's that spilled over into the 90's that are now being followed by the bible thumping fundamentalists of the 2000's.
Heres to the future *cheers*
As he said conservatism and liberalism are on a sort of seesaw, with each generation either more liberal or more conservative then the last. The hippies of the 60's were folloewd by leisure suits of the 70's that were followed by the transgendered punks of the 80's that spilled over into the 90's that are now being followed by the bible thumping fundamentalists of the 2000's. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think there's more bible thumpers, just that the ones there are are just yelling louder and getting more attention. This entire "incident" is one of the ways they are getting said attention.
As for all of this, I think it's stupid what the woman and others are doing. I personally believe that a bit of flogging is in order, but that's a different story...
The only reason this stuff is getting so much attention in the media is because you all are WANTING it to get this amount of attention. The media only tells what will get ratings, and at that point in time, it was a bit of a strip tease. Same with the Iraq war, 9/11, Desert Storm, Vietnam, Hippies, Korea, WWII, WWI....
Tired of it, then stop watching. Turn off the TV, and either go out for a walk or play a video game or just change the channel. Do to this like you would to a kid throwing a temper tantrum, just ignore them and do your daily buisness. Watching them will just promote them doing it, and pointing and laughing will just make them cry and get a buncha angry parents wanting to lynch you.
As for the child rearing parts, it goes back to when the parents were kids and when they wanted something, they usually got it, not to mention the morals back then were much stricter. When their kids become teenagers, most parents still think of them as kids that need guidance (which is usually the wrong kind) instead of a young adult that needs to learns lessons for themselves. The problem, a lot of these lessons, they end result is a body bag, yellow tape and a few eulogies...
Next thing you know, they see a boob during what is supposed to be a good game of a sport, not some filth ridden smut they could find on HBO or something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG! A breast! You mean, what they were fed with and their mother has?
There's nothing offensive about seeing a breast. Like I said, if JJ was performing some lewd sexual act then that would be considered inappropriate material for a 10 year old (or anyone under 16) to be watching. Honestly Forlorn what makes seeing a breast so bad? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it's a cultural difference you will never understand untill you live in the US.
Some things in the US we are childish about, and on other things were a too loose with.
And to think I thought you understood a bit about cultures...
Why did the romans enjoy bloodbath gladatorial games?
Why did Napolean enjoy smelly women (or the french)?
Why were fat women considered to be most attractive at one point(cause they were rich)?
Why was it considered to be more attractive when pale, but it's more attractive to be tan?
Come on people, use your heads on this one, it's not that tough to figure out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man if they had gladitorial games today id be all over it and so would a lot of people. Were all a bunch of filthly bloodthirsty animals, not just the Romans.
some people just need to get with the times.
This is only living on through necrotopica. Lockage.