Ns_hera
Merkaba
Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">Map feedback thread</div> I hope you all can enjoy the latest version of Hera. It's had a few radical changes and I personally can't easily predict how these changes will affect the game, as I'm unfortunately not able to play NS anymore (not whilst I'm living where I am, anyway).
Just saying whether its an improvement or not over the last version (it should definately be in terms of CPU usage) is enough, although more detailed feedback is more useful.
Most particularly I want to rid Hera or any large annoyances which hinder the gameplay for the release of NS 3.0, so anything in that respect should definately be reported (although I have no doubt that it will).
Anyway, enjoy.
Thanks,
Merkaba
Just saying whether its an improvement or not over the last version (it should definately be in terms of CPU usage) is enough, although more detailed feedback is more useful.
Most particularly I want to rid Hera or any large annoyances which hinder the gameplay for the release of NS 3.0, so anything in that respect should definately be reported (although I have no doubt that it will).
Anyway, enjoy.
Thanks,
Merkaba
Comments
- Some of the locations are busted ("heralocation_msewer" or whatever).
- I'm not too fond of the marine base... not the whole base specifically, but the CC is tucked away down that hall. I tried it, and you CAN fit a fully functioning base down there, but its *very* tight. And since most comms tend to build their bases within a very short distance of their CC (well, the IPs have to be nearby anyways), I think it might cause many headaches for large marine teams trying to get in and out of their base-in-a-closet <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->. I'd much rather see the CC moved back up ontop where it used to be, and chop that whole dead end off. But thats just me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Overall though, im very impressed. You reworked a LOT of that map! I even managed to get lost once! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
I'm eager to see how it plays online though. It seems to have been opened up a bit, so we'll see which team capitalizes most on the new freedoms.
GJ Merk!
My first impressions are that it looks like some very big changes have been made which is no bad thing as the old Hera was so unbalanced it couldn't be played in competitive matches. Can't yet say whether or not this one will but I hope so and it appears to be much improved over the last one, so thanks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
the changes look nice. marine spawn seems much more sensical now... less like a CC in the wall in the middle of nowhere.
Archiving looks great.. I won't miss the weldable. =P
changes to general cargo look proper.
seems like the map will work a lot better now for all involved.
Otherwise (from 1 match) looks quite enjoyable.
My main concern is the new comm chair place. Since you cant build ips outside that little alcove, it looks very skulk friendly, especially since you can drop right down from the ladder above. However a couple of turrets might make it ok, we will have to see.
Finally is it still possible to siege both vent and data from processing?
- runs like a dream
- a few more nodes, means you can hold more than 2 nodes at a time now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- seemed a little more balanced
<b>The iffy</b>:
- With no welding needed to get into cargo, and an extra hall from it going to double node. Really no need to go into fog corridor or reception except to grab the node at the start of the game, they saw little use in my games.
- Going on the above, maybe the map is a little TOO connected for marines now?
- Glass Hallway... GONE! It's not the same sexiness! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> (yes, this has little bearing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
<b>The Bad</b>:
- The water is pitch black when submegred as a skulk
- Like they said, with current CC placement, a bonsai base is almost a must in that little closet
- Still double siege? I thought it was gone, but I could of sworn they hit our vent hive from the spot in a game today, maybe I am crazy
And Im really not gonna touch on gameplay aspects before it gets some good playing done on it.
First though, something that must change right now... that water. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, back on Nancy in 1.0 you could do insane things with the TF ranges, (you probably still can, I've not commanded a 3.0 Nancy game yet) and now you can do similar things with Hera. For example...
1/ Processing is still a double siege point.
Granted, you can't siege both hives from the same TF anymore, but if marines control that area they can control 2 hives.
The quickest and easiest solution I can think of is to do this to the S shaped corridor, but that still leaves the marines the ability to siege away any defence on the lower level of Ventilation from Processing.
I think the only way to truely 'fix' processing would be to move vent hive further away, but I'm assuming there's a reason that would be difficult, else it would've been 2.0's solution to the double siege from 1.0.
2/ You can siege 3 rooms, and 4 RTs with 1 TF in Reception.
This one I'm slightly more worried about, what with Reception being Heras Marine Spawn in 90% of games. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As you can see, with that one TF you can run small turret farm along with a siege that covers about 95% of the room outside Archiving, around 85% of Holoroom, and a fair slice of Reception. Effectively giving the marines control of 4 resource points. Electrify both the RT the TF, and chuck up some turrets in reception and it's pretty much safe until the aliens get onos or a daring fade.
In the above pic I've put the siege as far away from the TF as I could, but even if you put it in the corner and surrounded it with turrets for added safety you could still control all 4 RTs in the general area.
In fact, thinking about it, if you were to put another siege cannon as far to the left in the above picture as you could, it'd probably reach Archivings RT, giving the marines the ability to siege 5 resource towers using one TF.
Sadly, soon after I'd discovered that last one the server I was on was invaded by people who didn't understand the words "don't attack, we're testing things", so there may be more such problems that I didn't find. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Other random points for consideration -
1/ The new route from marine spawn to reception seems to heavily help alien attacks on the marine base... a fade can fire off a spam of acid rockets into the new cubbyhole base area, and the moment he spies some marines coming his way duck behind the wall, blink off towards the glass bit and be round the corner perfectly safe before the marines can even reach the entry way. The same applies to lerks with spores... more so in fact, because the IPs *have* to be in that enclosed area, and spores in small, cramped bases = death.
2/ The new RT in the foggy corridor... I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think with electricitys massive range now, skulks can't walk past it without getting zapped. This might be wrong though.
3/ With Cargo no longer requiring welding in to, it feels like marines can expand too quickly... it might just be my imagination, but if I'm right Hera might have the same feeling as Eclipse does as an alien at the start of the game; there are only so many RTs on the map you can place that feel "safe".
For me anyway, if I place an RT at Triad, Station Access Alpha, Power Subjunction or Horseshoe I feel that the marines have better access to attack them than the aliens do to defend them, and with Cargo having ways into Maintaince, Holoroom AND Processing I think I'm going to feel that way about most of the RTs on Hera.
Perhaps an experiment with removing the route from Marine Spawn to Cargo, and replacing it with a route in there from the top of the stairs at Reception leading to Holoroom ?
Anyway, that's my random thoughts and crazy ideas for Hera... sorry for rambling on for ages and the big pics.
<span style='color:red'>**** HUMONGOUSLY HUGE IMAGES BALEETED **** Try 640x480</span>
This distracts from the otherwise fine visuals, although I really muss the long glass hallway as it was. The MS isnt that great either, as it feels far to cramped, without being easily defended.
Definitly great is the change made to archiving hive, with res node and stuff...
mfg
Lance
as far as the map itself goes, it seems really fun to play, and its nicely polished now. good job
in ns_hera, all the hives hav a murky watery ground. if a OC is built on it, the oc will not produce any shooting sound when enemy approaches
any structures or players that stands on the water will turn black
Is it just me, or does the outside look redder than before?
I played four games on hera and the marines won three of them. Reception and the gloomy corridor just aren't used by the marines anymore - they all run straight through the warehouse.
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Remove the vents in the middle of the computers in the heralocations_system. I think it makes the minimap a bit confusing and would make more sense without the vents. That and I don't think the vents are necessary IMO.
I will miss the transparent water but I don't think it looks too horrible. I think I can adjust to this.
The new conectivity should help marines get around the map easier but I think you may should consider putting the weldable between ms and cargo back in. It seams to give the marines too much access too early.
I personally thought the origional MS was the best <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->. The new one feels a bit odd tucked away in a corner. I also liked the way the cc was in it's own chamber in the first two versions. It really made it look like the CC was part of the network.
I have to agree with Comprox that the sexyness of this map is a little bit less with the removal of the glass hallway. It was so origional and unique it was just awsome. When I first saw the shot of ns_hera on the readyroom and saw the outside shot with the glass hallway I was blown away.
Hera still is IMO a great map and has the most memerable locations IMO. Keep up the good work.
Off Topic - How come you can't play NS where you live? If it's because of dial up I'm on a 56K in a rural area and I can play NS on steam fine with only about a 200-300 ping.
I would rather have a higher entity count and worse performance than worse gameplay.
It just... is not the same. I will really miss being able to lock down double res and get a good turtling going. As for archiving... Sheehs. Since when did rines have problems with lifts??? Besdies, you can weld the ivy-like material at the lower entrance and just wander in. Archiving is just too open now. The moved res node also means it is far more attractive area to take early on, and is far easier to hold; even without PGs.
Hmm. Still mixed feelings.
I like the new water, with scent of fear, regeneration, and silence, it makes a nasty ambush point for skulks.
I like the new ladder in the hive, I got so tired of having to go all the way around from the hive to the resource node back in 1.0 and 2.0.
I miss the walkway, but... oh well. I'll live.
Overall, great job!
Gah I dunno... It's a lot of big changes all at once... Feels.... Weird...
/me feels his head explode...
looks the same, but works different <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As said, rework your resource nodes. Half of them are within immediate reach of the marines, and the other half can be sieged down. (Considering the aliens have to reach half of them from 3 potential locations, this is severely unbalanced: If there's 10 nodes, marines should only have easy access to 2 or 3).
The changes IMO either look very rushed, or don't look good at all. The lift outside the marine spawn not only ruined the tactical POINT of that weldable there, but it looks quite tacky as well.
Overall I'm not too impressed. Sorry :/
<span style='color:purple'>/me scrams while you all look behind you</span>
Sorry Merkaba <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Please enjoy <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62394' target='_blank'>this</a> thread as well.
<span style='color:red'>**** PHASED ****</span>