War Is *mentally challenged* - Try This Instead
Grendel
All that is fear... Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
All that is fear... Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
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A dictatorship will opress its people, regardless of the presence of other nations.
It's not leaving a country that is difficult, but starting off in a new one.
I'd be shocked if we found one. Socio-economic problems will always be with us, and its not merely a matter of hurling money at it to solve it. I'd argue that it would be well nigh impossible to solve all your problems, as they are like a balance. You make a little change to one area, and it unbalances another.
And then you have the refugee rush. Illiterate, uneducated refugee's flood to your country. None of them speak your language, and as they are uneducated, will very likely lead to a jump in crime. They all have to be housed, clothed, medical bills paid for, fed etc.
How many are you going to take? Where are you going to put them. In their initial condition, they will have to be put together to facilitate their education for living in your country. By put together, I mean they will not have freewill in what they wish to do or where they wish to go. So you'd have to lock them all up in camps before releasing them.
This is what was done in Australia, and they didnt like it one bit. Sure it was better than the hell hole they came from, but its human nature to whine like a child. And what happens when they are sufficiently educated i.e four or five years later. Where do they go then? Do we treat them all like special uni graduates?
The immigrants will bring create their own social and economic problems, and will have to be mass supported by the state - read taxdollars. Its not economic and it would be incredibly difficult to pull off. IMHO, not a feasible idea.
Also, assuming still it were possible, what about the millions who live oppressed their entire lives while you are busy fixing your own country? Wouldn't it make sense to get things ok so multiple generations can live and improve upon themselves?
It's impossible to please everyone, so therefore, a country is going to always be in social flux. You can't fix all your problems. The best that's possible is to please the majority (which in itself is hard, because usually only minorities make themselves heard - so you're not sure if you have the majority opinion unless you poll your ENTIRE country, and that's just not logistically feasible, unless you live in Vatican City or Andorra or something). So, by
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The best way to combat problems in other countries is to solve your own socio-economic problems, then let everyone immigrate to your country.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no one's immigrating anywhere <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
[if anyone doesn't know for some reason, flux = fluctuation...it just sounds cooler]
[edit] <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(which in itself is hard, because usually only minorities make themselves heard - so you're not sure if you have the majority opinion unless you poll your ENTIRE country, and that's just not logistically feasible, unless you live in Vatican City or Andorra or something)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - longest paranthetical statement ever! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> [edit]
Just a little correction: The border widely considered the best guarded in human history, the Iron Curtain between Eastern and Western Germany, was still overcome by about 20.000 people each year.
The pefectly guarded border - both against im- and emigration - is an illusion.
Just a little correction: The border widely considered the best guarded in human history, the Iron Curtain between Eastern and Western Germany, was still overcome by about 20.000 people each year.
The pefectly guarded border - both against im- and emigration - is an illusion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly Nem. Perhaps someone could explain why boatloads of Iraqi refugees kept turning up here in Australia if Saddam really had such secure borders.
Just a little correction: The border widely considered the best guarded in human history, the Iron Curtain between Eastern and Western Germany, was still overcome by about 20.000 people each year.
The pefectly guarded border - both against im- and emigration - is an illusion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but many escaped because of the help that were giving to them by free western countries. If the western countries had said, “we don’t care to help you escape” I seriously doubt so many people would have been able to escape from the, as you put it, best-guarded border in human history.
Corroding to the original post countries that people are trying to flee to are spending all their time fixing their own problems, not trying to help people escape form their own repressive country. That means that these poor people would only be able to depend on themselves to escape and find means of transportation by themselves to their amazing new country that only seems to care about itself.
Anyway, the West made a (diplomatically critical) point out not helping Eastern German refugees with their escape (the SU wouldn't have been amused by that), they 'only' accepted them as Western German citizens once they had fled. The escape itself was done by people largely on their own.
They tunneled themselves out, built baloons (no joke), smuggled children in suitcases, one even invented a mechanical swimming help now used by divers to bridge the distance via the sea.
Sirus, you'd be surprised by how many high ranking and important people made the jump. The biggest demographic of refugees after the initial years were scientists and other studied people, which were regarded as economically critical by the GDR and thus under rather strict control. Granted, it's not possible for the whole of the population to leave in one go as long as the borders are intact, but the final stage of Eastern Germany featured a mass exodus over a rather small 'opening' in the Iron Curtain - a detour over Hungaria - that literally endangered the structural integrity of the country.
Note however that I disagree with Grens initial assessment; immigration poses a socio-economical problem in itself. Mass immigration, while in many cases a desireable end, can thus barely be considered a political means.
Iraqis are just that, Iraqis, not Americans. Yes, immigration is great and we would not have a nation without it, however making a mass amount of people move here to escape a dictator is economicly unsound. Also, you have to think from the standpoint of even if you HATE your leader, and you HATE your government, you may still love your nation and your heritige, and you wouldn't want to leave that behind.
An alternative to bringing masses of poor folks from their nation to ours? Take out the offending government and free the people.
That may seem conflicting with the idea that their culture is theirs, and they may want to stay there because it is THEIR nation, however nobody likes being shot, even if their home flag is raised behind them while its happening.
If you COULD create a rich happy isolationist socio-economic heaven, it would last 10 seconds before the great unwashed of these "oppressed" nations were swarming over your borders to demand sanctuary, benefits, housing, their own religious sites etc.
As everyone else has said, solving problems brings new problems.