Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 20 2004, 08:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 20 2004, 08:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Last.+Feb 19 2004, 07:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Feb 19 2004, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even in previous versions I've noticed I'd get sparks while hitting a celerity skulk. When I started leading the crosshair in front of the skulk, they'd die pretty easily. Anyway, I saw a video (lost the URL, it was spammed somewhere on IRC) that showed several sub| members shooting one wall circling skulk in 3.0 with hmgs, shotties, and what not. It took around ten seconds to bring one skulk down. Another vid showed a headon shot at a moving lerk (all ten shots hit, it should've killed it even with carapace). Instead of killing it, sparks showed up and the lerk got away unharmed. Once again, I noticed the spark problem in 2.0 when using custom models. I used to have a hydralisk as a fade replacement, and while hitting the non-hitbox area of the model (head plate), I'd get sparks without causing any real damage. :\. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I still have that demo, if someone could host it on a site we could let others see exactly what the hell we are talking about.
Oh and by the way last, the demo was recorded by me, a very frustrated NSPlayer at 2 AM in the mourning who was tired of dying to an invincible skulk <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Damnit Forlorn, you'll do anything to find an excuse for your horrible nub-like aiming. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Strangely enough, I rarely, if ever, get the sparks bug anymore and I haven't seen a bugged skulk in weeks. I play on a server on which I (and most the other regulars) get pings in the 20-50 range. I'm guessing that both bugs are mainly caused by lag.
Yes, same here... I have ping <15 on my favourite server and most people who play there have pings 20-30 (it's not lan!), I never noticed sparks on this server..
i will explain the way the half-life hit detection works.
if you die after you run around a corner it's because on the enemy's computer you haven't reached the corner yet and the server cares about what it thinks the shooter sees on his computer. every person sees on their computer where everyone was in the past.
other consequences of lag are that if you have high ping you are at a big disadvantage if you are standing still but you have an advantage against enemies that are standing still. normally if someone is standing still and they notice they are being attacked they will immediately react and run away. but if there is lag they will not notice they are being attacked until a fatal amount of damage has already been dealt their way.
suppose there is a skulk hiding above a door waiting to ambush a marine that comes throught it. if the skulk or the marine has high ping then the marine could enter the room look up and see the skulk and shoot him dead and then only after the skulk is dead will the skulk see the marine enter the room.
btw i tested the hit detection in early versions and it seems to work correctly meaning that if you aim directly at where you see enemies on your computer and not where they are on the server and not where they actually are, then you will hit them. however this system can make slight errors meaning you have to aim slightly in front of or behind enemies because it doesn't truly use where the enemies are on your computer, it uses where the server thinks they are on your computer; (not where they are on the server and not where you actually are but where the server thinks they are on the shooter's computer). the shooter's computer doesn't calculate if there is a hit because that could be exploited by cheats. so the next best thing is for the server to try to emulate client side hit detection and that means the server decides if there was a hit using the shooter's ping to help it predict what the shooter was seeing on their computer at the time the shot was made. the reason there could be the slight error that i mentioned is because sometimes people's pings are not constant but fluctuate up and down slightly. that is what causes the error that means you must aim slightly in front of or behind the enemy. but it doesn't mean you always have to aim in front or behind. it keeps changing between front and behind very rapidly because the ping goes up and down very rapidly.
HellbillyA whole title out of pity...Join Date: 2002-11-02Member: 3931Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 20 2004, 01:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 20 2004, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Last.+Feb 19 2004, 07:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Feb 19 2004, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even in previous versions I've noticed I'd get sparks while hitting a celerity skulk. When I started leading the crosshair in front of the skulk, they'd die pretty easily. Anyway, I saw a video (lost the URL, it was spammed somewhere on IRC) that showed several sub| members shooting one wall circling skulk in 3.0 with hmgs, shotties, and what not. It took around ten seconds to bring one skulk down. Another vid showed a headon shot at a moving lerk (all ten shots hit, it should've killed it even with carapace). Instead of killing it, sparks showed up and the lerk got away unharmed. Once again, I noticed the spark problem in 2.0 when using custom models. I used to have a hydralisk as a fade replacement, and while hitting the non-hitbox area of the model (head plate), I'd get sparks without causing any real damage. :\. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I still have that demo, if someone could host it on a site we could let others see exactly what the hell we are talking about.
Oh and by the way last, the demo was recorded by me, a very frustrated NSPlayer at 2 AM in the mourning who was tired of dying to an invincible skulk <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> PM me on IRC or here on the forums and i'll host the demo.
I know of a hitbox problem that when a skulk strafes around a marine, it's nearly impossible to kill it while it is strafing. Someone on the Lunixmonster server was doing a demo of this, dunno where it's at or if they got it hosted or anything.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
edited April 2004
I don't think that is the same bug, or at least it is not occuring to the extent that it does in NS. In NS you get the sparks even if the target moves directly at you, not even at an angle.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Apr 3 2004, 01:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Apr 3 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think that is the same bug, or at least it is not occuring to the extent that it does in NS. In NS you get the sparks even if the target moves directly at you, not even at an angle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm talking about the LMG and HMG and Pistol which miss also on the hitbox bug.
i'll tell you what was cool. today playing on hera there was an egg in vent hive. level 3 shotty and 5 shells directly into it, the dude said he was staring down the barrel of the damn thing and received no damage whatsoever. i thought he has lagged out because this had baffled me, but when he said "WTH crono^" i thought, "fsck."
The sparks don't show in that video because in CS you only get sparks when the guy has kevlar. In that demo, he didn't.
Edit: On second thought I think you never get sparks on CS, only when the guy has a helmet and you do a headshot.
Also, if the skulk is coming at you, you ARE aiming at an angle, since he is shorter than you are. If he jumps, the bug seems to go away and you kill him easily.
Edit2, so I don't bump this topic, just for reference: <a href='http://steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64532' target='_blank'>http://steampowered.com/forums/showthread....&threadid=64532</a>
Comments
I still have that demo, if someone could host it on a site we could let others see exactly what the hell we are talking about.
Oh and by the way last, the demo was recorded by me, a very frustrated NSPlayer at 2 AM in the mourning who was tired of dying to an invincible skulk <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damnit Forlorn, you'll do anything to find an excuse for your horrible nub-like aiming. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if you die after you run around a corner it's because on the enemy's computer you haven't reached the corner yet and the server cares about what it thinks the shooter sees on his computer. every person sees on their computer where everyone was in the past.
other consequences of lag are that if you have high ping you are at a big disadvantage if you are standing still but you have an advantage against enemies that are standing still. normally if someone is standing still and they notice they are being attacked they will immediately react and run away. but if there is lag they will not notice they are being attacked until a fatal amount of damage has already been dealt their way.
suppose there is a skulk hiding above a door waiting to ambush a marine that comes throught it. if the skulk or the marine has high ping then the marine could enter the room look up and see the skulk and shoot him dead and then only after the skulk is dead will the skulk see the marine enter the room.
btw i tested the hit detection in early versions and it seems to work correctly meaning that if you aim directly at where you see enemies on your computer and not where they are on the server and not where they actually are, then you will hit them. however this system can make slight errors meaning you have to aim slightly in front of or behind enemies because it doesn't truly use where the enemies are on your computer, it uses where the server thinks they are on your computer; (not where they are on the server and not where you actually are but where the server thinks they are on the shooter's computer). the shooter's computer doesn't calculate if there is a hit because that could be exploited by cheats. so the next best thing is for the server to try to emulate client side hit detection and that means the server decides if there was a hit using the shooter's ping to help it predict what the shooter was seeing on their computer at the time the shot was made. the reason there could be the slight error that i mentioned is because sometimes people's pings are not constant but fluctuate up and down slightly. that is what causes the error that means you must aim slightly in front of or behind the enemy. but it doesn't mean you always have to aim in front or behind. it keeps changing between front and behind very rapidly because the ping goes up and down very rapidly.
I still have that demo, if someone could host it on a site we could let others see exactly what the hell we are talking about.
Oh and by the way last, the demo was recorded by me, a very frustrated NSPlayer at 2 AM in the mourning who was tired of dying to an invincible skulk <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
PM me on IRC or here on the forums and i'll host the demo.
Edit - nevermind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm talking about the LMG and HMG and Pistol which miss also on the hitbox bug.
<a href='http://www.hellbilly.net/nsp/hitbox.rar' target='_blank'>hitbox.rar</a>
It's in .avi format.
today playing on hera there was an egg in vent hive. level 3 shotty and 5 shells directly into it, the dude said he was staring down the barrel of the damn thing and received no damage whatsoever. i thought he has lagged out because this had baffled me, but when he said "WTH crono^" i thought, "fsck."
Edit: On second thought I think you never get sparks on CS, only when the guy has a helmet and you do a headshot.
Also, if the skulk is coming at you, you ARE aiming at an angle, since he is shorter than you are. If he jumps, the bug seems to go away and you kill him easily.
Edit2, so I don't bump this topic, just for reference:
<a href='http://steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64532' target='_blank'>http://steampowered.com/forums/showthread....&threadid=64532</a>