Copyright And You
Luminair
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6785Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6785Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">What everyone needs to know</div>There's a lot of misinformation about the subject of copyright floating around here.
In the private space, the owners of this forum can do whatever they want. If they want to delete posts and ban people for any assorted things, it's their perogative to do so.
But in the eyes of copyright law, things are different.
Here's the basic situation: The creator of a piece of art owns the art. They have this magical "copyright" thing over their work that lends them certain legal options when the copyright is violated.
But:
A) Copyright issues are not an exact science.
B) Copyright law has about <i>eleventy</i> million holes in it.
Enforcing copyright law on small things (models for a game, for instance) is impractical due to time and cost, even when you DO have a leg to stand on. Not to mention people in other countries being essentially impossible for you to touch.
Then to add to the pile is the big one: Fair Use. This is the one that makes all you people talking about sueing over model editing seem like goofs :)
Basically, a new texture would most likely count as fair use. Same with a new animation, etc. As long as you're not selling it, and you're not pretending to be the original author, you can get away with fairly using it, whether the creator wants you to or not.
I doubt any of you are copyright lawyers, but if you are, I'd love more contributions to this topic. I'm not one myself, so I also welcome corrections to what I've said.
For more information, see this very basic outline (which specifically addresses textual cases, but is the same idea): <a href='http://www.umuc.edu/library/copy.html#fairuse' target='_blank'>http://www.umuc.edu/library/copy.html#fairuse</a>
That said, the owners of a private forum can do whatever they want. But if you want to flame/kick/ban/close/rape/kill people for editing models, I suggest you do so on the MORAL basis, not on the false belief that the edits are "illegal".
In the private space, the owners of this forum can do whatever they want. If they want to delete posts and ban people for any assorted things, it's their perogative to do so.
But in the eyes of copyright law, things are different.
Here's the basic situation: The creator of a piece of art owns the art. They have this magical "copyright" thing over their work that lends them certain legal options when the copyright is violated.
But:
A) Copyright issues are not an exact science.
B) Copyright law has about <i>eleventy</i> million holes in it.
Enforcing copyright law on small things (models for a game, for instance) is impractical due to time and cost, even when you DO have a leg to stand on. Not to mention people in other countries being essentially impossible for you to touch.
Then to add to the pile is the big one: Fair Use. This is the one that makes all you people talking about sueing over model editing seem like goofs :)
Basically, a new texture would most likely count as fair use. Same with a new animation, etc. As long as you're not selling it, and you're not pretending to be the original author, you can get away with fairly using it, whether the creator wants you to or not.
I doubt any of you are copyright lawyers, but if you are, I'd love more contributions to this topic. I'm not one myself, so I also welcome corrections to what I've said.
For more information, see this very basic outline (which specifically addresses textual cases, but is the same idea): <a href='http://www.umuc.edu/library/copy.html#fairuse' target='_blank'>http://www.umuc.edu/library/copy.html#fairuse</a>
That said, the owners of a private forum can do whatever they want. But if you want to flame/kick/ban/close/rape/kill people for editing models, I suggest you do so on the MORAL basis, not on the false belief that the edits are "illegal".
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Sticky plzkthx
i think your right one thing to add tho
i think people should have the commen sense not to edit the model when the original author asks you not to show the guy/girl some respect dont edit their work if they dont want it edited
Altercation of models is going to happen whether you like it or not, and especially if the model is publicly released. When you get extraordinary models created from people like BrigaderWolf and other modelers that contribute to ns and all games. Then you get other modelers who are going to take his models learn from them and add their own unique twist to them. The reason the modeler does this is from the desire to learn how to improve on their hobby/intrest, and to quench their thirst to express creativity. If you deprive modelers from this then you are going to have issues, and if there are any modelers that have an issue with other modelers learning and expressing creativity then I will tell you one thing. Anywhere you <i>(modelers in general) </i> go to advertise your modeling skills you are going to have other modelers that will evolve your models, and if you have a problem with this then why model? ? ? ? ? ? ? If you cant get public support and opinions then what the heck is the point? ? ? ? ?
I believe that other modelers that have an issue with this need to come to reality and accept it, but they have a right to be defensive about something they conjured up out of thin air. and I belive that it is Ok for modelers to learn from other models/skins/animations etc. and I belive it is ok to distribute them underground with your buddies and not publicly, and if the dude is cool with you making a public mirror the go for it. Just respect the fact that that person took time and effort out of their life to make something pleasing to the eye for you to use.
that is my opinion on the issue but remeber "to each their own" <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have no respect for modifiers who don't contact the original authors, it's disprespectful to the modellers whether the modification would be good/welcome or not. MOST people who have made modifications to my work I would have allowed, but the modellers doesn't hear hide nor hair of it.
With that all said, this is still a moot point, because this post won't get the point across to those who matter. Angry modellers will be posting complains, and some downloaders will be responding with whatever opinion they have... not that it matters since most of them who READ this are also the people who if they made a conversion would contact the original author. The ones everyone is mad at have to by dealt with on a person-to-person basis, usually WHEN you see a conversion released by them. They have to be told explicietly to "behave" and what the common, decent thing to do is.
Wow I'm long winded, I hope that all that made sense.
if your doing it for your own personal use please do not post it on the forums because then you will get people asking for it
You mean for your own personal use? You're free to do ANYTHING you want in that case. Hell, I have a converted NS pistol for the Spy Tranq in TFC. Am I allowed to convert it? Yes. Am I allowed to release it? No.
You mean for your own personal use? You're free to do ANYTHING you want in that case. Hell, I have a converted NS pistol for the Spy Tranq in TFC. Am I allowed to convert it? Yes. Am I allowed to release it? No. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
are u going to release it? maybe. lol
<b>I have no respect for modifiers who don't contact the original authors, it's disprespectful to the modellers whether the modification would be good/welcome or not. MOST people who have made modifications to my work I would have allowed, but the modellers doesn't hear hide nor hair of it.
</b>
With that all said, this is still a moot point, because this post won't get the point across to those who matter. Angry modellers will be posting complains, and some downloaders will be responding with whatever opinion they have... not that it matters since most of them who READ this are also the people who if they made a conversion would contact the original author. The ones everyone is mad at have to by dealt with on a person-to-person basis, usually WHEN you see a conversion released by them. They have to be told explicietly to "behave" and what the common, decent thing to do is.
Wow I'm long winded, I hope that all that made sense. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
for once, i agree WHOLY with roadmaster... as much as i personally tease/badsger him and/or what he has to say...
some people won't listen, some people will look like they are listening, and some people listen but just give you the finger and do it anyway.
<img src='http://caltrop.no-ip.com/~timberwolf/DesertEagle2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
But jJust keep on Hacking everything you want tho, eventually you wont have anything new to use, and maybe you'll actually have to learn to make your own models.
I thought you'd been shipped out or somesuch.
Good to see you're still up and about.
I don't have anything to add to the discussion, though. I've been through it before.
Around here, what Brig said is probably most important. Do unto others and all that. There are more important things for the powers that be to go chasing people for.
<img src='http://caltrop.no-ip.com/~timberwolf/DesertEagle2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
But jJust keep on Hacking everything you want tho, eventually you wont have anything new to use, and maybe you'll actually have to learn to make your own models. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought you were leaving. I thought you were a good guy but what I quoted was just childish.
You've never met Ls3... At least Brig's not banning you from his site for trying to download anything of his.
I think he made a strong point, whether anyone wanted to hear it or not.
People say they don't respect him anymore... guess what, he lost respect for these forums when people refused to comply with his simple request. Who lost? We did.
And Jaeger, I dont LEAVE leave for another 2 months...
When I make a skin, sound, or edit, its because I wanted something in MY game, and I wanted it MY way. So I do it, and when I have a community of folks, not all of which who have the skills or tools to create what I have created, I release the product to the community with the kind of message that says it all: I had fun making it! hope you have fun using it! When I see people say things like "good job!" and "oh wow! i'm totally using these!" It makes me happy, it makes me even HAPPIER when I see things like "Hmm...I'd like them more if they had GREEN helmets" then some guy comes along, reskins it and releases it. Why? Because the person who wanted those green helmets PROBABLY did not have the knowlege of HLMV and PS7 to do it himself, and the re-skinner made that kid's day.
If you release to the public you are sharing something that YOU wanted, why shouldn't people be able to have what THEY want?? Maybe someone likes your new Deagle there, but they REALLY wish it was black, it would suit their tastes much more. Does it make me a jerk if I recolor it, and say: Model by Brig. Wolf, Skin by Nixon? it does? I'm a jerk because some people prefer a model one way as opposed to another, and I provided that for them?
Taking your attitude at its very essence, if you ARE doing some kind of good deed or service by producing models for the community, and you are doing it for exactly that purpose, then you should be HAPPY to see folks edit and change things to fit people's likings, this way EVERYONE can enjoy your hours of hard work with their OWN prefrences added. You touch more people that way.
Or are you just more concerned with being sought after and reveered? If you are in this to get kudos, then step down my friend. Thats a crappy way to be and I for one do not have any respect for that, if you are in this for the love of it, then by all means, request that you are given credit, but do NOT turn these forums into a finger pointing law-fest because you don't want to see your HA model with diffrent colored boots or something.
Eventually, the community loses as all the customizers move on...
Amen, sticky, and lock... Maybe someone will learn from it...
Um... so now Im NOT providing a service? Im doing something for someone other than myself. That by definition is a service, whether or not I get anything back.
Honestly I enjoy modelling equally regardless of if I release the model or not, I only released them because I felt others would enjoy them, Not because I thought I was obligated to.
Um... so now Im NOT providing a service? Im doing something for someone other than myself. That by definition is a service, whether or not I get anything back.
Honestly I enjoy modelling equally regardless of if I release the model or not, I only released them because I felt others would enjoy them, Not because I thought I was obligated to. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
aye, and were grateful for wot we got.
And Jaeger, I dont LEAVE leave for another 2 months... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brig if your really not gona release anything because someone haxed up your player models all I have to say is GROW UP. A group of people said what they would liked changed, YOU DIDNT LISTEN, and they did it. What do you do? THROW AND FIT AND SAY SCREW YOU GUYS NO MORE **** FOR YOU. Thats sad man just sad. Now grow up, move on and release.
Now this needs to be stickyed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->