Same-sex Couples Adopting
tbZBeAst
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12755Members
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12755Members
<div class="IPBDescription">an offshoot of the marriage thread</div> The marriage thread is just starting off, but Marine01 hinted that he was against adoptions by same-sex couples. I think this is potentially a more interesting, and possible flame-baiting subject, so please READ whats written before IGNITING <span style='color:white'>and then don't ignite (--coil)</span>.
Personally I think that if a happy, stable home life is offered then adoption should be encouraged no matter what the sex of the adoptors.
Ok, just some little factlets from the top of my head
98% of convicted paedophiles consider themselves heterosexual (just in case anyone wanted to take the thread in that direction)
There is no evidence (to my knowledge) that growing up in a same-sex parent household damages a child, however there is lots of evidence that growing up in a "broken" home does.
So if the same-sex parents go through the same checks as the hetero parents and pass with flying colours, why deny them the ability to adopt, and why deny the child a happy homelife?
Personally I think that if a happy, stable home life is offered then adoption should be encouraged no matter what the sex of the adoptors.
Ok, just some little factlets from the top of my head
98% of convicted paedophiles consider themselves heterosexual (just in case anyone wanted to take the thread in that direction)
There is no evidence (to my knowledge) that growing up in a same-sex parent household damages a child, however there is lots of evidence that growing up in a "broken" home does.
So if the same-sex parents go through the same checks as the hetero parents and pass with flying colours, why deny them the ability to adopt, and why deny the child a happy homelife?
Comments
I think my main argument is that even if growing up with same-sex parents is somehow worse for a kid than having opposite-sex parents, its still probably a hell of alot better than growing up in an orphanage. However, I dont know the statistics (and dont feel like looking for them at 4am, although apparently I do feel like posting here, oh well) on how many kids up for adoption are not successfully placed into a foster home. If the vast majority do get foster homes then the number that could be taken in by same-sex parents would be very small and then my point is probably irrelevant.
i found that most posh parents and control freak parents (aka the ones who WANT their children to turn out how THEY WANT) , their kids tend to get into drugs, heavy drugs , very negative and depressed and tend to cause suicide.. ive seen a fair few of my friends take that path because they werent good enough in their parents eyes..
laid back fun out going parents who know about drugs etc and about the world who tend to treat you more like an equal and let you know what they know- their kids tend to turn out really cool with life, laid back and rather pleasent ppl and can handle the best and the worst in life.
druggo parents etc- their kids can either turn out like them, or like more mature ppl..
it all dependsupon choice and what the kids have learnt and what they see and how they think of it..
i seriously think if a same-sexed couple adopt a child, the child would be rather fine, depending on how the parents act and behave. the child will have its own view how they will turn out, just because a family member likes their same sex doesnt mean the rest will copy. we are all different.. hell a child born from a normal family which has never seen such same sexed antics soemhow turns out one themself because of their choice and taste..
parents have only got a little do do with how the child turns out,, most of it is what the child learns from the parents and up to the childs choice..
In a same sex relationship, lets imagine a boy has two mothers. He now has no male role model, and having only female role models, is more than likely going to grow up confused and probably pretty effeminate. Admittedly, this can happen in single parent situations, but we all agree single motherhood isnt the greatest way to go about child rearing. I've watched the little boy of a friend of my mother grow up in a single mother situation, and he TALKS female. He acts like a girl all the time - gender confusion.
I guess I question the ability of the homosexual family to be classified as stable and normal. Homosexual parenting has never happened normally/naturally. I've found several sites on Google both calling homosexual families unstable and completely stable, but they all suffer from extreme bias and suspect origins <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Here's a scenerio a boy is dating a girl, boy gets girl pregnant, boy marries girl because he has to. It happens, now what kind of enviorment is that child going to be raised in, is it more healthy to have two hetero parents raise you who can't provide you any financial or emotional security, in your mind is a child raised by several different family members better off than one raised by a g@y couple?
Here's another scenerio, two young adults have a one year old child, they have just finished most of initial child raising chores and decide to take a break from hardcore parenting, they start going out everyweekend like they used to, and both work jobs that make them come home no earlier than 6:30 in the evening everyday, it does happen, now is that child any better off?
Another scenerio, a couple married for 10 years decides to get a divorce, it becomes very unfriendly and there is a lengthy custody battle, one parent loses the kids and has no visitation rights, is this child better off?
Ok now to my real point, at this point in time (this may change in the future) g@y couples have been excluded from people who can be parents, if given the chance most would take it now I don't want to overgeneralize but you can probably see the point I'm making, someone who has to fight to get something will likely treat it differently then someone who doesn't. If you are inclined to beleive that being g@y is genetic the argument that they will somehow force their child to be g@y is sort of nulled. Now in terms of actually raising a child I will use a stereotype and say that most g@y parents would be able to provide a more emotional stable child in later life, because they would be forced to talk to their child about things most parents refuse. As has been brought up these kids could face ridicule for having g@y parents, but they would be prepared for this (hopefully) because by the time the child is a pre-adolescent the parents are bound to have explained what g@y is, and probably be more open to discuss things like sex, drugs, etc. and could make for a very well rounded emotionally stable person by the time they reach highschool.
That's my stance.
I think marine01, that you're on very dodgy ground with this one. Why would a child raised with 2 female parents not have a male role model? Even if one is necessary, and I'm not sure it is, whats a male role model?
By extension, would you allow female-female couples to adopt female children?
Unless the foster parents (straight or otherwise) are flat out abusive, it's still an improvement.
Anyone who is willing to put the effort into successfully raising children should be given the chance.
i found that most posh parents and control freak parents (aka the ones who WANT their children to turn out how THEY WANT) , their kids tend to get into drugs, heavy drugs , very negative and depressed and tend to cause suicide.. ive seen a fair few of my friends take that path because they werent good enough in their parents eyes..
laid back fun out going parents who know about drugs etc and about the world who tend to treat you more like an equal and let you know what they know- their kids tend to turn out really cool with life, laid back and rather pleasent ppl and can handle the best and the worst in life.
druggo parents etc- their kids can either turn out like them, or like more mature ppl..
it all dependsupon choice and what the kids have learnt and what they see and how they think of it..
i seriously think if a same-sexed couple adopt a child, the child would be rather fine, depending on how the parents act and behave. the child will have its own view how they will turn out, just because a family member likes their same sex doesnt mean the rest will copy. we are all different.. hell a child born from a normal family which has never seen such same sexed antics soemhow turns out one themself because of their choice and taste..
parents have only got a little do do with how the child turns out,, most of it is what the child learns from the parents and up to the childs choice.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can honestly say my Mom would be more towards the controlling side; and I'm pretty sure I haven't done any drugs (except caffeine and alcohol (I'm 18, and technically the age is 21, but I'm in disagreement with the age difference of 21...but, that's for a different topic - I didn't drink before I was 18, because I consider that a legitimate age). Never done any drugs that are drugs for the sake of being drugs (marijuana, cocaine...pretty much everything that's not in a legitimate beverage or food).
Pretty sure I turned out fine (...check back with me in 20 years).
I don't agree with the same-sex parents influencing a childs role-models or anything. When I was growing up - while recognizing my parents were important and probably would help me in raising my own children someday - my cousins were more of a role model than my parents (actors and actresses and sports stars would probably be even more so - but not to me).
Right off the bat, I'd be fine for female-female couples adopting females, and male-males adopting males; except for the following: these kids (at least for the first few years/generations after such a law were in place) would be teased for their parents sexual preference - it's unavoidable; they could grow up to be homosexual (but I don't actually agree with this, I believe sexual preference develops with genetic urges and life events); and the parents may not be understanding to certain life events (such as if their adopted child is heterosexual and they're homosexual, then they might not be able to give advice in all situations).
However, I'll have to go against male-male female and female-female male adoption. While it may be true a boy living under a single mother might not have a father present, generally the mother will at least have obtained a boyfriend that the son could learn from (vice versa for the female). Where I'm going is: if the parents are both the same gender, they're not going to know exactly how the other one is going to work.
While everyone has a basic grasp of how sex works (no matter what sexual preference they are), they're not going to know exactly how it works or feels. Empathy can help, but it's no substitute for experiance and sympathy.
While it may also be true that men and women will marry because of accidental conception, those marriages can also work. While people can get divorced, homosexual couples can also split...any example you can find for heterosexual couples has a counter-point from homosexual couples. One is not going to be better than the other (it's not like all homosexual couples get along perfectly and they're perfectly monogamous once they meet).
I only find the difference to lie in the childs need for societal fulfillment lacking (teasing if the parents are homosexual, but realistically, heterosexual parented children are going to be teased too ("Ha, ha! Your mom's in jail!", "Ha, ha! You have a giant nose!") and in the ability of same sex parents to raise an opposely gendered child (as stated directly above).
I would be inclined to believe that a g@y couple wouldn't have a problem exposing their child to positive role models such as big brothers/big sisters or even take them to a councilor during adolescense to deal with puberty and other things that someone of the same gender could help guide a kid through. After that everything else they will learn like you and I learned, parents pretty much stop being the main influence on kids around the age of 9 and the first 5 years of life is more dependant on nuturing than anything else. So that leaves 4 years where the couple would be independently responsible for the child's social construct, I think they can handle that.
Another scenerio, a couple married for 10 years decides to get a divorce, it becomes very unfriendly and there is a lengthy custody battle, one parent loses the kids and has no visitation rights, is this child better off?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Homosexual couples have arguments too. I realise that you are not trying to suggest that heterosexual couples can have really bad times and ruin thier child, but that is the bias that your post points to. Homosexuals can be bad parents too.
I am not trying/wanting to bring religion into this, but, having been raised a christian, I believe that homosexuality is wrong. I am not saying that I am right in this view, but that is how I feel. While I do not agree with homosexuality, I feel tht if it came down to a child having to really bad life being moved from one foster family to another, and living a relatively normal life with a homosexual couple, I would rather the latter took place, if only for the sake of the child. I cannot imagine the scenario with me being the child, because, for all I know, everything I base my views on in my current situation would not be there, so I would have a completely different stance on the whole issue.
Edited: 49%, according to follow on posts.
Thats an urban legend, go google it. The divorce rate is not nearly that bad.
I'd like to counter all teasing arguments. Even though a child raised by g@y parents may be teased a little or a lot this teasing shouldn't mess him up to much. I know this through experience. My real life name is Gabriel. Pronounced Gaybriel, its more of an emphasis on the a than the y. Anyway thats off topic. I have been called g@y all my life because of my name. Because of that I just smile and laugh when ever anyone calls me ****. I never doubt my heterosexuality and from a young age have known that I want to date girls. If anything my name has given me more strength, instead of messing me up. Granted these people will have a little more on their plate to deal with, but it shouldn't damage them much, if not at all.
49% of marriages end in divorce (Not Urban Legend)
9% of families are raised by a lone parent
25% of couples have children
2.2 children per 100 000 die from maltreatment per year
(Joint first with Mexico, although this is only among more developed countries, where recording was possible)
(<a href='http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/peo_div_per_100_mar' target='_blank'>Source</a>)
[/nitpickyness]
Not to be mean though Typhoon, but you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss someone's comment. In all reality you should have googled it first to know if he was off at all in the first place.
<a href='http://www.google.com/search?q=half+of+marriages+end+in+divorce' target='_blank'>The google search I did</a>
The very first link off that search leads to a site debunking that 50% fact. Looking at the other sites after that one, I now realize the first one may not be as accurate as I thought.
[refraining from making snide remark about dismissing people's comments]
From Z.X. Bogglesteinsky's sig: "Your generation sucks. - MonsE," and I'm inclined to agree (despite blatantly pulling it out of context). The divorce rates aren't exactly doing us any favors.
I'd venture to say that many people are growing up with no good role model at all. At least with two parents (regardless of what sex they are), you double your chances of having someone worth looking up to. Any extra benefit gleaned from having role models of opposite sex is to learn an extra gender role, but that's not exactly a high virtue right there.
Parenting has rather gone out of style, and that doesn't help much either.
edit: fixed sig credit. No idea how I mixed that one up.
<a href='http://www.google.com/search?q=half+of+marriages+end+in+divorce' target='_blank'>The google search I did</a>
The very first link off that search leads to a site debunking that 50% fact. Looking at the other sites after that one, I now realize the first one may not be as accurate as I thought.
[refraining from making snide remark about dismissing people's comments] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The funniest thing is, many here on this forum wonder why I never take internet sites for anything worthwhile at all <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Oh well.
Personally I've got no overall opinion on this issue (sort of on the fence). From my immediate thoughts, I wouldn't think it would be as mentally healthy for a child growing up in a household with two men/women in a sexual relationship. Then again, I can't say that with my usual certainty, as you know, I'm a microbiologist=Not a psychologist. Possibly it could have no effect at all on them, or it could be just the same or beneficial.
We'll soon know what will happen in a few years when psychological journals begin publishing research done on this very subject. Getting a grant to do it would be very easy too I'd imagine.
For now I wouldn't think there would be anything on the subject really [In journals].
From Sirus' sig: "Your generation sucks. - MonsE," and I'm inclined to agree (despite blatantly pulling it out of context). The divorce rates aren't exactly doing us any favors.
I'd venture to say that many people are growing up with no good role model at all. At least with two parents (regardless of what sex they are), you double your chances of having someone worth looking up to. Any extra benefit gleaned from having role models of opposite sex is to learn an extra gender role, but that's not exactly a high virtue right there.
Parenting has rather gone out of style, and that doesn't help much either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it was actually my sig, but i will let you off.
It may be out of context, but it is true. This generation does suck. Although I am not a parent (just about to start University) I think it is important for a child to grow up with a balanced view and input. This prevents pregudice, witch I think is the underlying issue. Biased vews breed ignorance, ignorance breeds prejudice, prejudice breeds hate. I am not saying that homosexual parents give a biased view, but they would have to work hard at giving suitable role models for thier children, both male and female (kids need both).
I think it might be cause they still read those book things back then *shrug*
Almost every one of Freud's suppositions and theories regarding human development involve his/her relationship to his parents, male and female.
Yes, and much like Einstien his ideas lasted for a while on their own but were found insufficient, and gave way to newer, seemingly more correct theories. Besides, freuds theories focusing on heterosexual parenting mean nothing on their own, they say nothing about the phsychological environment of homosexual parenting.
This has been proven on more than one equation. Gravity, for example, travels at the speed of light, passing the Theory of Relativity with flying colors.
And you're right, Freud's studies on parenting aren't directly pertinant to the idea of homosexual parenting, but his showing that when a male or female parent is removed the child has a greater chance of developing a complex later on can be easily extrapolated to apply to a household where a role model of one sex is completely absent.
I think that nobody has the right to judge what is right or normal. Nobody has more moral judgement than another, or the authority to decree what is normal. To put things in perspective, it was only a few decades ago that children raised in bi-racial families were unnatural and could come out damaged. The new issue is no different, it's just replacing race with sexual orientation.
Homosexual adoption will be hard to integrate into society for the first few generations, as was biracial marriages, but after time I'm sure it would become less risque and taboo.
Freud isn't science plain and simple, and among those psychologists who want psychology to be considered a legitimate science, Freud is completely disowned.
[/off topic]
Personally I feel that homosexuals adopting a child isn't ideal. I do believe that it is beneficial to have parents of both genders. However I think homosexual's seeking to adopt should be given precedence over single people adopting. It is always going to be better to have two loving parents than one loving parent, regardless of gender.