The Fade And The Onos Are Way Too Strong

TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
edited February 2004 in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">A real step backwards</div> The one thing I liked about the 1.04 to 2.0 transaction was the weakening of the Fade and the Onos. In 2.0 the days of the acid spamming tank who didn't die was pushed out by a new breed of Fade, an agile killing machine that you had to be very careful with. In 3.0, with the increase in Fade and Onos health, you're seeing back into the 1.04 days of the unstoppable or nearly unstoppable alien classes mopping up the marines. I saw in the beta that one of the goals of 3.0 was to make it so the counter to one onos isn't an entire team of marines and the counter to HA trains isn't an entire team of aliens but this has clearly not been met. We're seeing, especially now as the average skill is increasing dramatically that the counter to one Onos is an entire team of marines chasing it down, most of the time, failing. That's only one Onos though, generally you have multiple ones at a time. On top of that, the Fade now also needs many marines to attack it at once. Make no mistake, I don't want it so that one marine can solo an Onos but I also don't want it so that one Onos can solo an entire team. It's just no fun when you see that Onos and you KNOW you and your buds are going to die, it's just aggrovating. Something needs to be done to bring these classes back into line because they are just way too strong. Personally, I think it's because of the damage mitigation that comes with each hive...
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Comments

  • No-LifeNo-Life Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14597Members
    edited February 2004
    aim better?

    The fade is fine, and if anything the onos is too weak in classic.

    People seem to cry balance when they loose a game, one team HAS to win. The marines are very capable to win in 3.0, classic and combat.







    No-Life
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-No-Life+Feb 19 2004, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (No-Life @ Feb 19 2004, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> aim better?



    The fade is fine, and if anything the onos is too weak in classic.









    No-Life <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    My aiming is quite fine, thank you very much. No, the onos isn't too weak in classic since I have seen people own entire teams as Fade and Onos and I have done it myself.
  • No-LifeNo-Life Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14597Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it's because of the damage mitigation that comes with each hive...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    That made your post null, if the aliens have more than 1 hive most of the time they are doing good, and if they have 3 they should win 90% of the time.




    No-Life
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-No-Life+Feb 19 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (No-Life @ Feb 19 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it's because of the damage mitigation that comes with each hive...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    That made your post null, if the aliens have more than 1 hive most of the time they are doing good, and if they have 3 they should win 90% of the time.




    No-Life <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'll say this again. 3.0 was designed in mind so that one person can't take out an entire team, with three hives, one person can. If the aliens have 3 hives they probably will win 90% of the time but 3 hives shouldn't automatically mean that the aliens become these super beings. Even at two hives the mitigation makes them incredibly strong.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    Onos is fine, fade is fine, really not enough scrims/matches have been done on this to actually comment
  • SupernornSupernorn Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation
    actually I find that fades and Onos die painfully easy to shotguns and Hmgs, which the marines would most likely (or should) have by the time these two classes start appearing.
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    edited February 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-supernorn2000+Feb 19 2004, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Feb 19 2004, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> actually I find that fades and Onos die painfully easy to shotguns and Hmgs, which the marines would most likely (or should) have by the time these two classes start appearing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's just that fades appear too early (I should have put this in the original post). They come before the armory advances, so you're stuck with shotties and generally lvl 1 armor + weapons, while those are good and they will take down an inexperienced fade, an experienced one can mop everything up. By the time you do get an adv armory, you have Onos with 2 hives running around. It's the same thing every game.
  • kiwikiwi Join Date: 2003-09-13 Member: 20803Members
    i agree, if anything the onos is too weak. once that armor is gone the onos is very weak. onos cost 75 res... 3-4 marines with hmgs can easily kill an onos. thats only 45-60 res spent on the marines
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-kiwi+Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kiwi @ Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i agree, if anything the onos is too weak. once that armor is gone the onos is very weak. onos cost 75 res... 3-4 marines with hmgs can easily kill an onos. thats only 45-60 res spent on the marines <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs.
  • No-LifeNo-Life Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14597Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    3-4 LMG marines should run in fear from an onos. It SHOULD take HMGs and shottys to down a 75 res lifeform, and as of 3.0 beta 3 it does.

    There seems to be a trend in the posts...





    No-Life
  • SizerSizer Join Date: 2003-10-08 Member: 21531Members
    edited February 2004
    Fades are a bit strong in combat, though the hp/ap increase in classic was absolutely necessary.

    However, there is some indication that the lagging hitbox bug is still around. I've hit fades dead on, many times, only to see sparks instead of blood. At sub-100 ping too.
  • NecroNecro &lt;insert non-birthday-related title here&gt; Join Date: 2002-08-09 Member: 1118Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 20 2004, 02:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 20 2004, 02:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kiwi+Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kiwi @ Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i agree, if anything the onos is too weak. once that armor is gone the onos is very weak. onos cost 75 res... 3-4 marines with hmgs can easily kill an onos. thats only 45-60 res spent on the marines <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WTH? no they should not. maybe 3-4 ha/hmg's but 3-4 lmg's? no way!
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Necro-+Feb 19 2004, 06:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necro- @ Feb 19 2004, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 20 2004, 02:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 20 2004, 02:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kiwi+Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kiwi @ Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i agree, if anything the onos is too weak. once that armor is gone the onos is very weak. onos cost 75 res... 3-4 marines with hmgs can easily kill an onos. thats only 45-60 res spent on the marines <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WTH? no they should not. maybe 3-4 ha/hmg's but 3-4 lmg's? no way! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why not exactly? Are you saying that if only 1 alien goes gorge and builds stuff while the rest just res **** and go onos at 75 res they should be unstoppable? If you think 4 LMG marines should be slaughtered then what are they supposed to do when they are facing two, three, four, or five onos, who if they res ****, they can onos very fast?
  • ParaseticLifeFormParaseticLifeForm Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18384Members
    maybe that is because marines wont get armor in combat until they get their gun.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 19 2004, 06:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 19 2004, 06:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Necro-+Feb 19 2004, 06:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necro- @ Feb 19 2004, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 20 2004, 02:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 20 2004, 02:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kiwi+Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kiwi @ Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i agree, if anything the onos is too weak. once that armor is gone the onos is very weak. onos cost 75 res... 3-4 marines with hmgs can easily kill an onos. thats only 45-60 res spent on the marines <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WTH? no they should not. maybe 3-4 ha/hmg's but 3-4 lmg's? no way! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why not exactly? Are you saying that if only 1 alien goes gorge and builds stuff while the rest just res **** and go onos at 75 res they should be unstoppable? If you think 4 LMG marines should be slaughtered then what are they supposed to do when they are facing two, three, four, or five onos, who if they res ****, they can onos very fast? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Dan, I don't mean to be too rude when I say this, but you honestly need more experience with the game.
  • dotdot Join Date: 2003-10-09 Member: 21554Members
    The onos is really a huge bullet catcher now, its anti-personnel damage capability is greatly hindered with its gore range and stomp time. I disagree that the onos is overpowered, as I think it's not worth really playing anymore unless you have superior support forces. The fade on the other hand seems to be the better alien lifeform to combat generally everything the marines have. Granted, they have horrible range capability with acid rocket, their blinking can still allow for lightning fast hit and fade runs (pun intended). This being said, the fade is still not overpowered since a single marine that knows how to dodge and strafe can take out a fade. Light machinegunners may have a problem with them, as well as shotgunners, but the heavy guns of the marines are more than capable of taking down the fade. If your argument is that the early fade is unstoppable, then the key is to not letting an alien get early fade. In combat, this is near impossible, but classic still has tried and true strategies in denying alien resources. Try it.

    .
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    BTW, I'm not talking at all about combat, just reg NS. I need more experience? Ok, not like I've been playing daily since almost the beggining...
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-dot+Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dot @ Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The onos is really a huge bullet catcher now, its anti-personnel damage capability is greatly hindered with its gore range and stomp time. I disagree that the onos is overpowered, as I think it's not worth really playing anymore unless you have superior support forces. The fade on the other hand seems to be the better alien lifeform to combat generally everything the marines have. Granted, they have horrible range capability with acid rocket, their blinking can still allow for lightning fast hit and fade runs (pun intended). This being said, the fade is still not overpowered since a single marine that knows how to dodge and strafe can take out a fade. Light machinegunners may have a problem with them, as well as shotgunners, but the heavy guns of the marines are more than capable of taking down the fade. If your argument is that the early fade is unstoppable, then the key is to not letting an alien get early fade. In combat, this is near impossible, but classic still has tried and true strategies in denying alien resources. Try it.

    . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    One skulk going off of RFK and one tower can easily get Fade before the marines are even close to getting HMGs.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> BTW, I'm not talking at all about combat, just reg NS. I need more experience? Ok, not like I've been playing daily since almost the beggining... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    5 LMGs roughly = 1 HMG in terms of total dmg done over time


    Before you say that 4 LMG's should be able to kill an onos, remember, LMG's are FREE WEAPONS, onos are TOP TEIR TECH of the aliens, shouldn't it make sense that marines should use top teir tech to counter top teir tech of the aliens?
  • dotdot Join Date: 2003-10-09 Member: 21554Members
    Then you have an incompetent hypothetical commander. Most classic games I command are heavily resource node assault. Deny the aliens their resources (and yes this includes their starting tower) and you won't see an early fade. Again, try it.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 19 2004, 06:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 19 2004, 06:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-dot+Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dot @ Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The onos is really a huge bullet catcher now, its anti-personnel damage capability is greatly hindered with its gore range and stomp time.  I disagree that the onos is overpowered, as I think it's not worth really playing anymore unless you have superior support forces.  The fade on the other hand seems to be the better alien lifeform to combat generally everything the marines have.  Granted, they have horrible range capability with acid rocket, their blinking can still allow for lightning fast hit and fade runs (pun intended).  This being said, the fade is still not overpowered since a single marine that knows how to dodge and strafe can take out a fade.  Light machinegunners may have a problem with them, as well as shotgunners, but the heavy guns of the marines are more than capable of taking down the fade.  If your argument is that the early fade is unstoppable, then the key is to not letting an alien get early fade.  In combat, this is near impossible, but classic still has tried and true strategies in denying alien resources.  Try it.

    . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    One skulk going off of RFK and one tower can easily get Fade before the marines are even close to getting HMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This also confirms what I've been saying about you needing more experience.


    Let me ask you this:


    - Who is stronger (in general)? Skulks or A basic, LMG marine?
  • kolokolkolokol Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9166Members
    If you are having problems taking down onos then your teams strategy has failed. If your having problems taking down four onos at once with full tech ...again youve let the aliens win.
    Seriously when youre playing with good teams on both sides ns just goes up a level.
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 19 2004, 06:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 19 2004, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> BTW, I'm not talking at all about combat, just reg NS. I need more experience? Ok, not like I've been playing daily since almost the beggining... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    5 LMGs roughly = 1 HMG in terms of total dmg done over time


    Before you say that 4 LMG's should be able to kill an onos, remember, LMG's are FREE WEAPONS, onos are TOP TEIR TECH of the aliens, shouldn't it make sense that marines should use top teir tech to counter top teir tech of the aliens? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I know they are top teir tech but 4 of anything should be able to take out 1 of anything. The 5 LMGs = 1 statement just shows you the HUGE gap inbetween upgrades which is why problems like what I described occur. It does make sense that marines should use top teir tech to counter top tier life forms but does it make sense that top tier life forms come much, MUCH faster than the marines? The idea of countering fades by killing all their res nodes is absurd, if you are playing even a moderatly skilled team, you're not going to get their res tower by the time the a skilled player can go fade (~3-4 minutes).
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-kolokol+Feb 19 2004, 06:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kolokol @ Feb 19 2004, 06:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you are having problems taking down onos then your teams strategy has failed. If your having problems taking down four onos at once with full tech ...again youve let the aliens win.
    Seriously when youre playing with good teams on both sides ns just goes up a level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thats the thing, I am playing with good teams on both sides it's just that 9/10 times I see the marines get their rear ends handed to them. It's the EXACT same thing everytime.
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 19 2004, 06:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 19 2004, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 19 2004, 06:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 19 2004, 06:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-dot+Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dot @ Feb 19 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The onos is really a huge bullet catcher now, its anti-personnel damage capability is greatly hindered with its gore range and stomp time.  I disagree that the onos is overpowered, as I think it's not worth really playing anymore unless you have superior support forces.  The fade on the other hand seems to be the better alien lifeform to combat generally everything the marines have.  Granted, they have horrible range capability with acid rocket, their blinking can still allow for lightning fast hit and fade runs (pun intended).  This being said, the fade is still not overpowered since a single marine that knows how to dodge and strafe can take out a fade.  Light machinegunners may have a problem with them, as well as shotgunners, but the heavy guns of the marines are more than capable of taking down the fade.  If your argument is that the early fade is unstoppable, then the key is to not letting an alien get early fade.  In combat, this is near impossible, but classic still has tried and true strategies in denying alien resources.  Try it.

    . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    One skulk going off of RFK and one tower can easily get Fade before the marines are even close to getting HMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This also confirms what I've been saying about you needing more experience.


    Let me ask you this:


    - Who is stronger (in general)? Skulks or A basic, LMG marine? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The experience comment is out of line, you've never seen me play and I've never seen you play, so please don't make comments like that again. A good basic marine will win against a good skulk. A top tier alien will win against a top tier skulk.
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    can't edit my last post but a top tier skulk will win against a top tier marine.
  • StarchyStarchy Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15727Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-supernorn2000+Feb 19 2004, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Feb 19 2004, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> actually I find that fades and Onos die painfully easy to shotguns and Hmgs, which the marines would most likely (or should) have by the time these two classes start appearing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Aye, I find onos are very easy to kill in 3.0... a little too easy if you ask me ¬_¬
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    edited February 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 19 2004, 06:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 19 2004, 06:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A good basic marine will win against a good skulk. A top tier alien will win against a top tier <b>skulk</b>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    :P

    I don't think the onos' hp/ap is what makes it strong. An onos without stomp or celerity is not going to do that well against 4 LMGs. However, it's necessary for onos to be powerful at second hive in order to break marine defenses.

    The idea that onos appear before heavy/decently-upgraded guns seems a little out of kilter with my own experiece, I have to say. Usually, if the aliens have 4/5 RTs and the marines have 3/4 RTs, the tech is roughly the same pace. Ultimately, we'll have to agree to disagree, since it's purely a matter of opinion.

    NB: I started writing this before the correction. :P
  • dr_ddr_d Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Members
    a skulk can kill HA and HMG since when?

    Anyway the point is NS is supposed to be a dynamic team game with FPS components, it is not a PURE rts, that means that it is not 4 marines going against 1 zerg, it is 4 players playing as marines going against 1 player playing an alien. They have to balance it with that in mind.

    You also have to keep in mind tech trees are there for a reason, just like 4 skulks have almost 0 chance to kill a 3/3 HA/HMG, 4 lmg la marines have almost 0 chance to kill an onos, make enough sense now?
  • DiablusDiablus Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
    i dont understand why people suggest balancing by "nerfing" a unit. doing that only unbalances the game more
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