Crouching Fade, Hidden Hitbox

Mr_CharismaMr_Charisma Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
edited February 2004 in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Food for though?</div> After a few strange encounters with Fades crouching, I decided to do some investigation. I'll let the screenshots speak for themselves.

Thanks to Aegis for being my monkey <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.

<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0003.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0004.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0005.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Apologies about the size.

Basically, the shots are going right through the Fade, this is not a shotgun bug, or a steam hitbox issue. I only used a shotgun for these shots as you can plainly see the shots not hitting. It does work with all other weapons.
«1

Comments

  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    Amazing!!! however Ive read somewhere else in this forum that this a bug not only affecting the Fade, but is rather a Shotgun bug that seems to affect every life form. Im not sure how to post a link to the other post, but do a search, it details that you have to shoot slightly beyond the model to register the hit with the shotgun.
  • Mr_CharismaMr_Charisma Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
    Like I said, I only used the shotgun so you can easily see the shots go through the fade. I will make up some screens from other weapons as well.
  • TrayderTrayder Join Date: 2003-10-30 Member: 22127Members, Constellation
    Yeah i reported it with other lifeforms (both posts got deleted <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). Since what i found was rather random, unlike yours it makes me think that maybe skulks hitboxes change when they are in the air or something. Those screenshots show exactly what i found was happening with other lifeforms (sparks but they take no damage). Goodwork on getting evidence i was unable to get any, see if you can get some screenies of the same thing happening to other lifeforms while ur at it.
  • ApocalypsecowApocalypsecow Join Date: 2003-12-22 Member: 24648Members
    That's some nice investigative reporting. I'd like to see some more screens for other weapons as well.
  • Mr_CharismaMr_Charisma Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited February 2004
    Ok, well I did some more looking into, here's what i've found:

    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0000.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    Here you can plainly see that the shots are not hitting the Fade.

    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0006.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0007.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    Same thing, with the Pistol.

    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0008.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0009.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    And the HMG.

    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0012.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0013.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    Here, the Marine is blatently sitting inside the crouching fade.

    <a href='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/fade.zip' target='_blank'>This</a> is a demo of the HMG, Knife, and GL on a crouching Fade.


    From what I can see, the bug can vary, in some cases I could hit the Fade from just below the shoulders, and in other cases I coulden't hit the Fade as low as his waist, as you can see in the first images.

    More thanks the Endless and Dislexus for helping me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
  • ChargeCharge Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13144Members
    oh my god! that is horrible.

    but it doesnt apply on all servers.
  • SuicideRusherSuicideRusher Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13893Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but it doesnt apply on all servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    and what makes you think that?
  • EndlessEndless Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22503Members
    quite obviously a problem..
  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Quite obviously not reproducible, so no cookie. It's an old bug, and I think it's Steam related.
  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Hey, don't apologize for the screenshot size. I'd much rather have an apology for posting bugs without steps to reproduce them. That's a much worse offense around here. It's an old bug, and the reason grepdashv haven't put it in the bug database is that it is random and most likely Steam related.
  • PiemanPieman Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22499Members
    The fade crouches, he shoots it - thats it. As for not beeing reproducable, he does it with every gun in the game and with 2 different fades at different times....
  • Mr_CharismaMr_Charisma Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited February 2004
    Not in the bug database, didnt come up under any of my searches, how was i supposed to know? Sorry for trying to help?

    If you coulden't understand what I said 3 times. Let me repeat myself.

    When the Fade crouches, and you try to shoot the top half of it's body, the shots go straight through the model.
  • ChargeCharge Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13144Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-SuicideRusher+Feb 23 2004, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuicideRusher @ Feb 23 2004, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but it doesnt apply on all servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    and what makes you think that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    because it doesnt. i havent noticed anyways
  • xMaD-MaNxxMaD-MaNx Join Date: 2003-11-03 Member: 22253Members
    Charge, this bug is not a server problem. It's a problem with the whole game, and I dont think it's with steam because it's the only game I see with this problem.
  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Members, NS1 Playtester
    I thought the non-reproducible bug was the lagged hitboxes where fast moving, small creatures's hitboxes would lag behind them and they would be unkillable by firing at the model. This is a large creature, standing still. Obviously not a lagged hitbox issue. This just seems to indicate that a crouched fade's hitbox is smaller than the visible fade model. Not related to the other bug so much at all...
  • OctavianOctavian Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13520Members
    Sorry to go off topic, but Crouching Fade, Hidden Hitbox is the best thread title since the forums began... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    LOL... best title and also a serious bug too.
    Just call me "Bumpy: things that go bump in the night" (anyone remember that show.. *sighs and remembers his innocent childhood*)
    cuz Im up for seeing it in the queue (or at least addressed by a developer)
    *bump*
    on this bug!
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    This bug is rather obvious.


    As seen in this pic,

    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0013.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    The fade's hitbox becomes a marine's crouched hitbox when the fade crouches.
  • aegixaegix Join Date: 2002-08-31 Member: 1256Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-Immacolata+Feb 23 2004, 07:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Immacolata @ Feb 23 2004, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Quite obviously not reproducible, so no cookie. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not reproducible? Try it out for yourself with a friend in any server you like. It is 100% reproducible.
  • BugBrainBugBrain Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16279Members
    Question: does this affect fades that are crouch-blinking? As in, does it affect a fade that blinks, jumps, crouches, and stops using blink in order to gain blink speeds without using adren?
  • Ph0enixPh0enix Join Date: 2002-10-08 Member: 1462Members, Constellation
    It'd affect any fade which crouches, be it when standingt still, blinking, running or doing cart wheels <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    BTW, the name is a play on crouching marine, hidden hitbox. Crouching marines were a pain to kill in 1.04 due to buggy hitboxes.
  • LastLast Join Date: 2003-10-06 Member: 21463Members
    edited February 2004
    Can you try shooting lower into the fade, like at its legs to test out forlorn's theory? Immacolata, how is this bug not reproducible? He just tested it out, and showed evidence that it IS reproducible. In fact he's reproduced it several times without fail.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Looks like it's more or less exactly how Fades were in 2.01.
  • HypergripHypergrip Suspect Germany Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9689Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin-Octavian+Feb 23 2004, 06:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Octavian @ Feb 23 2004, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sorry to go off topic, but Crouching Fade, Hidden Hitbox is the best thread title since the forums began... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, your new, aren't you?
    In fact "Crouching Skulk, Hidden Hitbox" was the official title of one bug during 2.0. This is just a cheap copy <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Mr_CharismaMr_Charisma Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-Hypergrip+Feb 23 2004, 11:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hypergrip @ Feb 23 2004, 11:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In fact "Crouching Skulk, Hidden Hitbox" was the official title of one bug during 2.0. This is just a cheap copy <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm not saying it's original, but i will say i never saw that thread <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.

    As for blinking, we tried a few blinking tests, it's not that big of an issue there, but a crouching blinking Fade will take less damage.

    Shooting at the legs will grant hits, it's only the top half the of model that is affected.
  • a_civiliana_civilian Likes seeing numbers Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
    <!--QuoteBegin-Hypergrip+Feb 23 2004, 11:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hypergrip @ Feb 23 2004, 11:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact "Crouching Skulk, Hidden Hitbox" was the official title of one bug during 2.0. This is just a cheap copy <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    "Crouching Marine, Hidden Hitbox" dates from as far back as November 2002. That bug title was just a cheap copy.

    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11988' target='_blank'>Crouching Marine, Hidden Hitbox</a>
  • Heavy_DHeavy_D Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10816Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 23 2004, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 23 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This bug is rather obvious.


    As seen in this pic,

    <img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0013.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    The fade's hitbox becomes a marine's crouched hitbox when the fade crouches.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Where the marine stands does not depend on the hitbox of the fade, but rather on the clipping hull. The hitbox is where you can shoot the target, the clipping hull is what makes it solid, allows you to stand on it, and prevents it from going through small gaps in the level.

    The crouching clipping hull has to be the size of the marine clipping hull, for two reasons:
    One is that otherwise the fade would be unable to fit through vents/low gaps and so on.
    The other is that half-life is limited to only four clipping hulls. One clipping hull exactly fits the geometry of the level, what you can see on screen. This is used for grenades and other projectiles. The second is the crouching hull, used for all crouching players except the onos, and for skulks, lerks and gorges all the time. The third is the standing player hull, used for standing marines and fades, and crouching onos. Finally, the fourth hull is the large hull used for a standing onos.

    The fix with hitboxes means that hitboxes can now extend beyond the size of the clipping hull, so you can hit limbs that extend beyond the solid part of the player. The fix does not change the way that clipping hulls work, as it is a hard, unavoidable engine limitation. Obviously there is some problem with the fix to the hitboxes in the first post of this thread, I'm only addressing the player standing on the fade's "head".

    Perhaps the best solution to this part of the problem would be to make the crouch animation of the fade duck lower, so that it matches the clipping hull more closely?
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    This bug makes fades overpowered, when can we fix it?


    it's still beatable, but it makes fades the dominant choice atm and therefore also makes D chambers the number one choice.


    And why are all of the other hitboxes fixed except for the fade?


    Flay plz fix this bug for Nadagasts sake, he will blow a gasket!
  • eagleceaglec Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9948Members, Constellation
    When combined with the blinks current high speed and 150-300ms lag between you and the target this makes the fade unstopable.

    You cant just blame it on steam as we have no choice but to run it on steam. Thats like blaming the sinking of the Titanic on water...

    It is reproduceable it is a bug, it must be fixed somehow. Well done for getting those quality screenshots.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-e.Nadagast+Mar 22 2004, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Mar 22 2004, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you admitted that using an exploit just because it's old is wrong on ventrilo last night... gogo hypocrite <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I said there is nothing you can do about it except play the game
Sign In or Register to comment.