My first mapping shots

doctopepa · February 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">I'm a bit nervous...</div>Iv'e been juggling with ideas, building and removing for a few weeks. Here's a little eyecandy. As usual U decide if it tastes good or bad...

Unknown · February 2002

it looks really great, but it's to dark, and the lighting could do with changing. Are you using texture lights or point based lights?

doctopepa · February 2002

This one makes a little more sense:

doctopepa · February 2002

Thru the eyes of bob hiding amongst the pipes in the ceiling:

doctopepa · February 2002

I saved the best one for last:

Wurmspawn · February 2002

it looks like you have some really nice brushwork there, but unfortunately its hard to tell due to the monochromatic lighting...
a spot or too might add a nice bit of contrast (heh, ken!?) while still keeping it mostly dark and creepy.
i would definately be intimidated by this part of a map, red lights always set me on edge.

doctopepa · February 2002

I'll just keep terrorizing...

ChromeAngel · February 2002

I was going to suggest varying the textures but I see you've already thought of that.

Find out about texture lighting. Not only does it look more realistic it's also quicker.

Beware of very bold colour lighting, some people don't like that. You can get away with using a single color for a feature room but don't go decking the whole level out like that will you.

Loved the brushwork.

realityisdead · February 2002

Lol wurmspawn, but actually no, I don't think it needs more contrast. He's got some great dark spots up above everything... lots of hiding places from what I can see. I like how detailed the red lights make the entire thing look. And it definately has that "tense" feel to it. Oh, and about the lights... there is absolutely nothing wrong with using point lights. I use the technique that you did (placing points floating in the air to make things more visible) all the time. Don't let anyone try to convince you into avoiding point lights, because as is evident in your shots, it doesn't matter <i>what kind</i> of lighting techniques you use, as long as it turns out looking good. Not that texture lights are bad either... they are mostly what I use... it's just that... umm...
*runs away in fear of the angry hordes of texture light fanatics*

Edit - <b>To back up my standing on point lights:</b> Have you ever played one of gustavo's hldm maps? Whether you like them or not, you've got to admit that they are gorgeous. I know for a fact that Gustavo hardly <i>ever</i> uses texture lights. Almost every single beautiful light in his levels is a white colored light texture with a different colored point based light right in front of it. So there. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> (I use this technique a lot too)

Really though, as Chrome mentioned, texture lights usually do come out more realistic looking and are much easier to use. And like he said, definately do <b>not</b> light the whole level red. This would make for a nice little corridor nearing one of your hives.

ChromeAngel · February 2002

I find point lights are good if I want a particular light fitting to be brighter than others with the same texture in the same map.

I get the feeling you could have lit that area with textures a lot quicker than setting up all those point lights.

I must confess ignorance of HLDM and Gustavo's maps, but their were no texture lights when the original Quake DM maps were made so prehaps that's why Gustavo didn't use texture lighting.

doctopepa · February 2002

Recieves...
Hmmm...

"it looks really great"
"it looks like you have some really nice brushwork there"
"And it definately has that "tense" feel to it."
Thank you!

"It's too dark"
No it isn't! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> (john cleese voice)

"don't go decking the whole level out like that will you."
"do not light the whole level red"
No, I wasn't going to. See your point though <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Since you're all talking about this texture lighting, why don't you show me how to do it here and now? U said i t was easy (or maybe u didn't hmmm....)

I'll keep posting as soon as i got something to... post

Relic25 · February 2002

I think it looks fantastic as-is. As long as the whole map isn't that way, it's fine. The monochromatic red gives the area shown a real psychological punch. I understand people try to be helpful by giving suggestions for given screenshots, but often, a lot of comments try to treat single rooms/corridors/etc. as the entire map. In other words, not every single part of a map needs to have a full range of lighting and contrast, and not every area needs to have every type and color of lights/textures. If it did, it would be very hard on the eyes. I'm not pointing fingers here, but this typically happens more when only one area is shown and advice is asked on how to improve it. It's always a good idea to keep the big picture in mind.

humbaba · February 2002

Im a big fan of strongly colorful lighting. I like this much. I have only positive opinions about this pic. If fingertips leaves a message asking about r_speeds, well, just expect one.

realityisdead · February 2002

I agree, relic. We really should be more specific in those terms, and realize that fitting an entire level with high contrast bright against dark all over would get really old after a while. I'm very glad you brought that up, because we all really do seem to look at each shot as the whole map (myself definately included).

What I really like is when someone says "This is near a hive, so I'm trying to make it a bit more tense feeling", so then we could say "Looks great but maybe you could add some more contrasting light to give aliens some more hiding places".... Or when someone says "This is near my marine spawn", and we could then say "Looks great as is but don't forget to have some "moodier" areas in you map as you get closer to the hive.

Another thing that we should all realize is that contrast is what makes NS maps stand out so muc hfrom other hl maps. But we need to remember that contrast doesn't just come in the form of lighting (as in spotlights). It could be represented by color, geometry of varying height, etc...

Everyone obviously seems to think that I go a little overboard with my opinions (reasonable, I guess). Contrast especially. The truth is that I really just have a hard time expressing my thoughts sometimes. I've never been good socially, and when I say "You could use more contrast", someone may interpret it as "This area needs more contrast", where I really may mean the level as a whole is <i>going</i> to need contrast. It's a fault on my own part there, and I apologize if some of you may feel that I have been misleading in my advice.

We should all also realize that most of us here are <i>not</i> professionals by any means. Most of us, even though we may think we do, don't really have a full comprehension of what the NS team is looking for. People's opinions on what you should do are just that: opinions. Take them for what they are, because I don't think any of us on this forum claim to have all the answers, nor do we have them.

*runs and hides again, this time from embarrassment*

Freestyler · February 2002

Erm.. well said ken! I think.

Relic25 · February 2002

Hey, you have nothing to apologise for! You give lots of insightful comments and have been a tremendous help (to me especially!). I only posted that comment because I caught <i>myself</i> about to make a generalization, when I realized that it would be a mistake, since I hadn't seen the rest of the map. I was more or less just sharing the thought.

realityisdead · February 2002

Understood, Relic. I just catch myself generalizing like you described a lot too. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

BTW, I have never in my life found such a nice online community as this, where people are so eager to help each other out. I don't know what it is in here, but it seems to bring out the best in everyone. Maybe we're all just afraid of Molec's mighty wrath... Hehe

Anyway, I'm eagerly awaiting your next shots docto <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Regarding your question about texture lighting, <a href="http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Tutorials/tutorial.php?id=48" target="_blank">this link</a> should get you started.

doctopepa · February 2002

Well, I'm happy to post here too.
Remember I'm old enough to take critics with a grain of salt. Was that a real sentence? Anyway, I appriciate all suggestions and support. Soon I'll give you more stuff to discuss. I continued mapping last night when I should have been sleeping. Now there are four blocks connected a the top with alpha bars. Great for bob. BAD for our human hero's <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Thanx for the link, by the way.
Can u tell me how u make cables that you can see but don't hit your head in?

I'm happy to present, a grain of salt and it's friends:
<img src="http://parkscanada.pch.gc.ca/parks/nwtw/wood_buffalo/photos/salt_deposits.jpg" border="0">

Relic25 · February 2002

Just make the cables func_illusionaries.

Unknown · February 2002

Wow, those first four images kinda reminds me of the movie "2001 A Space Odysey" you know Hals' brain room.

any-who, you should also have normal britness rooms, but i must confess, i love the moody lighting, but it shouldent consume all the map.

doctopepa · February 2002

GhaaaaaaAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!! thank you, I WONT! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

And oh, i figured out the cable problem on my own. sorry to waste your time. New shot's soon....

edit: sorry 'bout the "ghaaaaaaaaAAAAhhh!!!!!" i get that not-the-whole-map-red-thing alot.

doctopepa · February 2002

Not to mindblowing but... HEy LOOK, it's not ALL RED!

doctopepa · February 2002

white white baby

doctopepa · February 2002

light at the end of the tunnel...
check out the bars in the middle.

doctopepa · February 2002

added some fences for the sexy shiny metal industrial feel:

mr_Nebel · February 2002

isn't that still red? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Anyway after watching ALIENS again last night near the end alot of the scenes in the colony where lit with 100% red which actually looked very cool.

doctopepa · February 2002

so you've come to your sences? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

MonsieurEvil · February 2002

I must say that red is nice and scary when used appropriately. Like Relic does...

<img src="http://www.readyroom.org/ns_ingame/HalfL25e_8x6.jpg" border="0">

doctopepa · February 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Feb. 22 2002,23:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I must say that red is nice and scary when used appropriately. Like Relic does...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
what's that supposed to mean? <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Greedo · February 2002

He means that, if you get the red lighting right (and sometimes its a bit hard to tell from a screenshot), then your map will be "nice and scary," and I think that might be what you want to shoot for.

Cremator · February 2002

it's very red!

My first mapping shots

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