coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Actually, there will probably be extensive playtesting prior to the release of Version 2, especially considering the hopeful addition of the Marine vs. Marine and Alien vs. Alien playmodes.
Res, coil already said it but I just have to say....fool...you think the 2nd version, 3rd version..4th..5th and however far they go won't have play testers? Look at CS, beta testers for betas 1 thru 7 or however many they did before valve bought them up.
On topic, I wouldn't download the leak, partly because I don't believe in *stealing* the work of people I have come to respect and partly because i'm on 56k and by the time I finished the download flayra could have easily hardcoded me out of the game ;D
<!--QuoteBegin--CollateralDamage+Oct. 12 2002,01:52--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (CollateralDamage @ Oct. 12 2002,01:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Perhaps, but there is no financial damage. Copyright infringements of much greater magnitude go unpunished every minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you think this is some form of loophole or something, you are greatly wrong. Just go make an Aliens mod or something, and you'll find out about copyright real quick.
Although breaking an NDA has nothing to do with copyright. Its a different ballpark altogether. But yes the contract is legally binding. You can be sued for a breach of contract. Its up to a judge to determine just how much $ it is worth.
Wouldn't an Aliens mod involve a trademark issue instead of a copyright issue? These intellectual property laws are quite complicated (and silly), and that they are different in every country doesn't make it easier. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
The NDA would be broken by actually copying the game without permission. That *is* a copyright infringement. As for the breach of contract, the fine will probably have to be specified in the NDA itself, as no other financial damage can be proven. True, judges are free in their decision, but most probably don't even know what online games are. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Ah , I dont care about not being chosen to be a plytester, anyway all I said was Id d/l it, not leak it. Im just a useless n00b to you guys anyway so Id NEVER be picked. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
D/Ling an early version of NS would be almost a lot like reading ahead in a book, reading up on game walkthroughs, or opening your presents before Christmas (or Hannukah or whatever)--it's easy and tempting to do, but in the long run, hurts you more than anyone else.
Not only is it not the "right" thing to do, but it would kind of ruin the surprise. Sure, it wouldn't really matter if you'd walked around the levels a bit before the release, but it's just not the same as being with everyone else in the download rush, installing it, exploring the levels with everyone else, learning the game, being confused, and ultimately having a better time.
If it would be possible to play it, I would download it for obvious reasons. But it seems now that I couldn't play it so I propably wouldn't download it. Simple as that.
There's absolutely NO way I download it for all of the following reasons: (1) Unplayable- Sure, I could do a LAN game if I got through all the security, but it wouldn't be fun.
(2) Buggy- It would be buggy and far from what it would be like at release
(3) Respect- I respect the hard work that the NS team is doing and would never even think of disrepecting them by downloading NS against their wishes.
You have to look at it this way, flayra can either if there was a leak and say: 1) wow these guys want the game soooo bad they are downloading a game that is unfinished and utterly unplayable just so they can say "I have a copy of NS HOLY POOP! or 2)This isn't right, they are stealing my art and distributing something that isn't done, I want them to have, I really do but they are taking it before I will give it to them, how dare they...
I'm not really sure what he would say, but personally I would be tempted with the DL, lets be real NS! Playable or not I would download for that cool splash screen coil has been bragging about, nah- I probably wouldn't download it- and even if I did find out who leaked it, I wouldn't snich him either, I'll take the nuetral road, like sweden... <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
It's not just a matter of "honor" or trust. Sure, I respect their work and that is a major reason I would never download a leaked version, but it's also like if you've been waiting for weeks for the greatest tasting cake in the world to finish cooking and then when it's only a few days away from perfection, take it out.
A lot of you guys remind me of the spoiled brats who demand to open the big shiny present a few days before Christmas.
Well said, Bill! If you're patient and wait, you'll soon be playing the greatest mod ever to hit the Half-Life scene and have hours of entertainment. If you're impatient and download a leaked version, you'll find horrible bugs and be disappointed, then you won't feel inclined to download the official version and you'll ruin the fun.
That sounds as if v0.98b (leaked) would be horribly and almost unplayably bugged but v1.0 (released) would magically become perfect, when in reality it's a smooth transition from "more buggy" to "less buggy".
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Flayra forgot a single letter (a "c") in the RC8 code. RC8 was supposed to have destroyable, slow-yield resource nodes. By the end of an RC8 game, however, both teams always had in excess of 1500 resources (normally, it's unlikely for the marines to have more than 200 in reserve). Yeah, sometimes things get *more* buggy. (:
<!--QuoteBegin--Bill+Oct. 13 2002,01:32--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Bill @ Oct. 13 2002,01:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not just a matter of "honor" or trust. Sure, I respect their work and that is a major reason I would never download a leaked version, but it's also like if you've been waiting for weeks for the greatest tasting cake in the world to finish cooking and then when it's only a few days away from perfection, take it out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's been a "few days from completion" for a month or so. At least I think.
As for this ridiculous "honor" crud, there's no such thing on the internet. Flayra's team should be flattered that there are so many worms that would download a leaked copy, one that isn't even done, so that they can play it. I sure as heck would be. Do the worms respect their work? Of course, or else they wouldn't be in the forums. Do they want to play NS badly? Yes.
Is it worth the evils that may or may not have been hard coded into the RCs? That is the question... mwahahahaha.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
You people make me sick. The only reason there is no honor on the Internet is because people like you have none. You use the anonymity of the Net to get away with everything you wish you had the balls to even *try* in real life.
FamDiaper-Wearing Dog On A BallJoin Date: 2002-02-17Member: 222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--Gibby+Oct. 13 2002,20:26--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Gibby @ Oct. 13 2002,20:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for this ridiculous "honor" crud, there's no such thing on the internet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He has honor if he holds himself to an ideal of conduct though it is inconvenient, unprofitable, or dangerous to do so.--Walter Lippmann
Should we abandon our morals, our thoughts, and our personality upon the internet? Do you abandon your very self when you sit down at the computer? In that case, you are wasting your life my good sir, while it sits waiting for you to log off.
<!--QuoteBegin--CollateralDamage+Oct. 13 2002,11:44--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (CollateralDamage @ Oct. 13 2002,11:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gawd, it's just a string of bytes. It's not like anything <i>important</i> is at stake here.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That string of bytes IS important to the dev team. They poured all their skill and talent into this mod and gave it a big chunk of their life to make you happy. How can you not call that important? Is the happiness of people not important?
Just because you're behind a computer doesn't make it okay to be an ###. It's like you pampered little teenagers have nothing more significant to do with your life than to sit impatiently on a messageboard and whine about things that normal human beings don't care about, and moan that a game that's being given to you <b>FOR FREE</b>isn't out yet, and that these people who owe you absolutely nothing are taking too long to get it done. So yeah, the internet might be completely devoid of honor, but ironically enough there is about an equal amount of maturity and intelligence.
Yes, art and happiness are certainly important, but the question "leak or not" is NOT important. It doesn't affect the art. And all this has nothing to do with morality.
Let me put it differently...
The question is basically: Would an art-lover who sneaked into Da Vinci's workshop and saw the half-finished Mona Lisa say: "Yuck, half the canvas is empty. I'm not going to buy this picture." or "OMG, it's already so beautiful and it isn't even finished yet!"...?
I take a copy. Without even touching the original. This is why all "copyright infringement is theft" arguments are flawed, and it is why this argument is flawed.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Why not download something that is easier to find yet will still give you more enjoyment? Like say, America's army or [insert Half-Life mod here]. Even if it were possible to get a fully working leaked RC the limitations due to the fact that its not available to the public would make getting something legal a much better choice.
<!--QuoteBegin--CollateralDamage+Oct. 13 2002,14:06--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (CollateralDamage @ Oct. 13 2002,14:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The question is basically: Would an art-lover who sneaked into Da Vinci's workshop and saw the half-finished Mona Lisa say: "Yuck, half the canvas is empty. I'm not going to buy this picture." or "OMG, it's already so beautiful and it isn't even finished yet!"...?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wouldn't Da Vinci, like most artists, have preferred that people not see his work until it was complete? Wouldn't you be honorable and respect his wishes?
Comments
On topic, I wouldn't download the leak, partly because I don't believe in *stealing* the work of people I have come to respect and partly because i'm on 56k and by the time I finished the download flayra could have easily hardcoded me out of the game ;D
If you think this is some form of loophole or something, you are greatly wrong. Just go make an Aliens mod or something, and you'll find out about copyright real quick.
Although breaking an NDA has nothing to do with copyright. Its a different ballpark altogether. But yes the contract is legally binding. You can be sued for a breach of contract. Its up to a judge to determine just how much $ it is worth.
The NDA would be broken by actually copying the game without permission. That *is* a copyright infringement. As for the breach of contract, the fine will probably have to be specified in the NDA itself, as no other financial damage can be proven. True, judges are free in their decision, but most probably don't even know what online games are. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Im just a useless n00b to you guys anyway so Id NEVER be picked. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
Someone slap CD!! =P
Not only is it not the "right" thing to do, but it would kind of ruin the surprise. Sure, it wouldn't really matter if you'd walked around the levels a bit before the release, but it's just not the same as being with everyone else in the download rush, installing it, exploring the levels with everyone else, learning the game, being confused, and ultimately having a better time.
Have you not noticed that when you say you'd download the leaked version you are losing what little net-trust you had.
Me, my immortal morality and my good-guy-gun is gonna shoot little pink bunny-rabbits and teddy bears into your face until you play nice. =P
(1) Unplayable- Sure, I could do a LAN game if I got through all the security, but it wouldn't be fun.
(2) Buggy- It would be buggy and far from what it would be like at release
(3) Respect- I respect the hard work that the NS team is doing and would never even think of disrepecting them by downloading NS against their wishes.
I'm not really sure what he would say, but personally I would be tempted with the DL, lets be real NS! Playable or not I would download for that cool splash screen coil has been bragging about, nah- I probably wouldn't download it- and even if I did find out who leaked it, I wouldn't snich him either, I'll take the nuetral road, like sweden... <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
A lot of you guys remind me of the spoiled brats who demand to open the big shiny present a few days before Christmas.
Its not always a smooth ride to release. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
It's been a "few days from completion" for a month or so. At least I think.
As for this ridiculous "honor" crud, there's no such thing on the internet. Flayra's team should be flattered that there are so many worms that would download a leaked copy, one that isn't even done, so that they can play it. I sure as heck would be. Do the worms respect their work? Of course, or else they wouldn't be in the forums. Do they want to play NS badly? Yes.
Is it worth the evils that may or may not have been hard coded into the RCs? That is the question... mwahahahaha.
He has honor if he holds himself to an ideal of conduct though it is inconvenient, unprofitable, or dangerous to do so.--Walter Lippmann
Should we abandon our morals, our thoughts, and our personality upon the internet? Do you abandon your very self when you sit down at the computer? In that case, you are wasting your life my good sir, while it sits waiting for you to log off.
Gawd, it's just a string of bytes. It's not like anything <i>important</i> like human life is at stake here. Nobody and nothing is hurt by a leak.
That string of bytes IS important to the dev team. They poured all their skill and talent into this mod and gave it a big chunk of their life to make you happy. How can you not call that important? Is the happiness of people not important?
Just because you're behind a computer doesn't make it okay to be an ###. It's like you pampered little teenagers have nothing more significant to do with your life than to sit impatiently on a messageboard and whine about things that normal human beings don't care about, and moan that a game that's being given to you <b>FOR FREE</b>isn't out yet, and that these people who owe you absolutely nothing are taking too long to get it done. So yeah, the internet might be completely devoid of honor, but ironically enough there is about an equal amount of maturity and intelligence.
Let me put it differently...
The question is basically: Would an art-lover who sneaked into Da Vinci's workshop and saw the half-finished Mona Lisa say: "Yuck, half the canvas is empty. I'm not going to buy this picture." or "OMG, it's already so beautiful and it isn't even finished yet!"...?
You complete idiot.
Wouldn't Da Vinci, like most artists, have preferred that people not see his work until it was complete? Wouldn't you be honorable and respect his wishes?