<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Mar 1 2004, 10:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 1 2004, 10:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just because you disagree with what I am saying, does not mean I shouldn't say it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course not, that is why this is a discussion forum.
It doesn't make it any less silly however.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's failed time and time again because most can't keep their hands off each other. Abstinence would cure problems, if people actually tried it. Don't blame the cure for the lack of motivation to use that cure.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except you are missing key parts of the ecology of AIDs that confound your rather flowers and roses 'solution'. The first problem is in 3rd world countries, they are forced to reuse needles due to the lack of any sort of supply at all. As such they are forced to reuse syringes and even blood from transfusions basically quite often. This benefits the microbe by leaps and bounds, aiding its rapid spread through the population.
If you stopped injecting drug users and people having promiscuous sex, you'd just ensure that they'd get it from their doctors from getting a vaccination. Alternatively, you can then force them into a choice of getting it from reused needles and dying in 20 years time, or getting a lethal bacterial/viral infection and dying now.
Isn't that a great choice?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The thing that's wrong with sex is those that have sex outside of marriage. Don't believe me? We're talking about AIDs, aren't we? Case in point.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, how delightfully narrow minded and ignorant.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh... okay, so that makes the root cause of AIDs moot? Stop using drugs! Ding ding ding - problem solved!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a brilliant solution. How about you go to Africa and say to someone who's just come in, well I'm sorry I can't give your son antibiotics to cure their <i>Streptococcus pneumoniae</i> as I can't reuse these needles...
I'm 100% sure you'd be proud to attend their sons funeral 5-6 days later.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Perhaps if the parents of such children would stop sleeping around it would stop! Good grief, it doesn't take a scientist to figure out this stuff!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which, clearly you aren't.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not sure how this makes a debate topic then. Are we all supposed to say "Yay, a cure was found"?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, but to debate the merits of it and if it has any real possible applications (See my post earlier).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The attention to HIV/AIDs, and the way it has been portrayed on the media outlets is frustrating, and also disheartening. I find them morally bankrupt, and definitely blind to the real problem that causes AIDs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look in a mirror and actually do some research on why AIDs is truely rampant.
Next, we'll do a hypothetical experiment where I can show you scans of 20 people and we'll find out if YOU can pick the one with AIDs.
Won't that be fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, like most modern medicine, people seem focused on curing the symptoms, and not the root cause of the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, and I'm 100% sure you'll be pleased to donate some of your salary to buy new needles for the millions of people in 3rd world countries who can't get a safe supply of them.
Try not to think of things as being purely black and white. Simply because it is an STD doesn't mean it is JUST transmitted through sexual intercourse.
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Mar 2 2004, 05:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 2 2004, 05:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's failed time and time again because most can't keep their hands off each other. Abstinence would cure problems, if people actually tried it. Don't blame the cure for the lack of motivation to use that cure.... Oh... okay, so that makes the root cause of AIDs moot? Stop using drugs! Ding ding ding - problem solved! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, a cure and prevention are very different. I can't believe you would call that an argument over semantics. They are very different things, stop insinuating otherwise. Someone afflicted with AIDs doesn't 'cure' themselves by abstaining. And if they could, they would. There's plenty of motivation there. Prevention however is just increasing the statistics. For example, by not jumping into traffic, I am decreasing the risk of getting hit by a car. By abstaining from sex you are decreasing the risk of getting AIDs However a with pharmological cures there are no statistics. Take this pill and you get better, end of story.
Yes, cures do <b>have </b>to be easy, at least far easier then changing the social behavior of millions of people. If you think it would require billions of dollars to find a cure for AIDs, it would cost at least that to indoctrinate a nation on the perils of unsafe sex, as well as curing drug addiction.
Like I said, if we could wave our magic wands and make it happen, we would. But drug addiction and promiscuity are the most primal of instincts (in the case of drug addiction, it becomes as necessary as food). It's easier to find a cure then to change these cultural habits, especially since habits can also revert back to their original state. But a cure is a cure.
From an ecological perspective, I wonder how darwinistic this could get. I know it sounds horribly Machiavellian, but the people that will survive AIDs will be the one's who are either 1) genetically resistant 2) don't have the behaviors that cause infection. This would spread to their offspring one would think. However living in Africa isn't just about beating AIDs. I can imagine how difficult it would be to survive when thousands of people you depend on are dying all around you. It really is a desparate situation.
<!--QuoteBegin-Aegeri+Mar 1 2004, 11:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Mar 1 2004, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Try not to think of things as being purely black and white. Simply because it is an STD doesn't mean it is JUST transmitted through sexual intercourse. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the number one issue in this whole thing it seems. The mistaken conception of what AIDS is. Aegeri, you seem to have a rather firm concept, but many others fail to understan exactly how this disease is spread outside of their (sheltered and narrow) lives/viewpoints.
Let's break this down folks:
One, AIDS is NOT an STD, though one infection vector is through sexual intercourse.
Two, AIDS is NOT a "black and white" issue. Truly, I don't advocate the cure due to the current trend in human demographics and the population projections I've seen lately. Humanity eating itself out of earth and home is NOT something I wish to see, despite the current cost of life. Why cure my grandfather of something if it will result in my own children paying the costs--monetarily and physically--down the road? However, the "cure" or "treatment" is but one of many possible strategies for fighting it--just as abstinence seems to be to many.
Three, AIDS is NOT a single-vector disease, and has many opportunities to attack one's body--blood mingling through the use of shared bandaging (recently used on someone else...think along the lines of a cotton towel/rag/gauze that is soaked, wrung, and then re-used due to lack of replacements); used needles (due to an extreme deficiency of the proper supplies for medical teams in Africa) from hospitals/clinics/biovuoac points/refugee camps; re-used needles for drug use, even some drug as benign as insulin (don't have diabetes figures on Africa handy :/) or as dangerous as heroin; sexual intercourse.
Seriously, you need to do a LOT more research if you're thinking "abstinence and avoidance of drugs/sex is the key to AIDS treatment"....even if that were the current regime of "treatment," that would leave two separate generations of people floundering, as we would not give treatment to the current cases or the children born with it from those cases. Wake up son, open your eyes....I <i>promise</i> there's a life beyond the doors to the church and your parents' house. Some of us have seen what life does to those who "fall by the wayside" so to speak. That may seem condescending, but look back in 5 years and then re-evaluate the stance you take today--I guarantee it will have changed in some fashion.
Incidently, I have since read the paper being discussed in this thread, and it does not allude that a 'cure' to AIDs has been found at all. They have merely discovered a mechanism by which some animals are resistant (not immune incidently) to HIV infection. They are still unsure as to what it actually does or how it does it, and if they can apply it in any meaningful clinical fashion at all.
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Mar 1 2004, 10:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 1 2004, 10:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> However, like most modern medicine, people seem focused on curing the symptoms, and not the root cause of the problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is an approach to curing the actual cause... The virus. You can continue on with your statements if you want, but they make no sense. Its like wanting to blame gun companies for the attrocities committed by criminals.
Now, now guys. Medhead has a point, and it is a cure that does not require much medicine. It does not even have to be religiously lead, I mean what's religious about deciding not to have sex until marrige or until certain lab results? Nothing.
It's just this stigma that people commonly throw at abstinence because they feel threatened by religion and all the ideas that have had anything to do with religious practice past or present.
All this particular course of action is is breeding the virus out of the population. Since the virus in not genetic, it should take a surprisingly short amount of time. Only 2-3 generations.
The troubles with this particular cure is:
1. How are we going to get the entire world population on the same page? A tremendous task whether the idea is tacked onto religion or not.
2. How are we going to adjust for non-sexual infections of HIV? They happen, as the good people of this forum have noted.
3. What do we do with the already infected? If left to freely move about in society there is a chance an accident would occur and by Murphy's law if there is a chance...it will (I know for a fact grown men have choked themselves to death on rubber ducks accidentally). It is by all means possible to round them all up and seperate them from society, but there would be some serious humanitarian concerns.
Do this or not, ten...twenty years from now we will have the vaccine, give it to everyone and let them live their lives as they will until the next super nasty sexually transmitted disease rears its head.
Personally, I'm gonna just stay really selective about partners in any intimate activity. I am not pleased with the idea of dying due to the common cold.
HIV does not kill you. It's that unforseen bout with the flu that does you in a couple years after infection.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-AU-Scorpion+Mar 3 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AU-Scorpion @ Mar 3 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All this particular course of action is is breeding the virus out of the population. Since the virus in not genetic, it should take a surprisingly short amount of time. Only 2-3 generations. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It does, however, get passed from mother to child quite easily. Breeding it out wouldn't really work for this sort of thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The troubles with this particular cure is:
1. How are we going to get the entire world population on the same page? A tremendous task whether the idea is tacked onto religion or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do we tell the entire world to stop having sex?
Easy. Just tell everyone that Rosie O'donnell got married to her same sex girlfriend.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Mar 3 2004, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Mar 3 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The troubles with this particular cure is:
1. How are we going to get the entire world population on the same page? A tremendous task whether the idea is tacked onto religion or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do we tell the entire world to stop having sex?
Easy. Just tell everyone that Rosie O'donnell got married to her same sex girlfriend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Mar 3 2004, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Mar 3 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The troubles with this particular cure is:
1. How are we going to get the entire world population on the same page? A tremendous task whether the idea is tacked onto religion or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do we tell the entire world to stop having sex?
Easy. Just tell everyone that Rosie O'donnell got married to her same sex girlfriend.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> I HATE you for that mental image <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Insane+Mar 3 2004, 07:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insane @ Mar 3 2004, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AU-Scorpion+Mar 3 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AU-Scorpion @ Mar 3 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All this particular course of action is is breeding the virus out of the population. Since the virus in not genetic, it should take a surprisingly short amount of time. Only 2-3 generations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It does, however, get passed from mother to child quite easily. Breeding it out wouldn't really work for this sort of thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I though that the children are killed by the disease before puberty, and have no opportunity to pass on their genetic material. So this shouldn't make a difference, unless they reach sexual maturity.
<!--QuoteBegin-killswitch1968+Mar 3 2004, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Mar 3 2004, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Insane+Mar 3 2004, 07:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insane @ Mar 3 2004, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AU-Scorpion+Mar 3 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AU-Scorpion @ Mar 3 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All this particular course of action is is breeding the virus out of the population. Since the virus in not genetic, it should take a surprisingly short amount of time. Only 2-3 generations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It does, however, get passed from mother to child quite easily. Breeding it out wouldn't really work for this sort of thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I though that the children are killed by the disease before puberty, and have no opportunity to pass on their genetic material. So this shouldn't make a difference, unless they reach sexual maturity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Depends and then doesn't depend. Depends on the type we are talking about, one is very lethal and is generally spread by reusing needles (hence why it is so infective).
I doubt one cure will deal with all three viruses.
<!--QuoteBegin-killswitch1968+Mar 3 2004, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Mar 3 2004, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I though that the children are killed by the disease before puberty, and have no opportunity to pass on their genetic material. So this shouldn't make a difference, unless they reach sexual maturity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe you could be thinking of hemophilia, an old and well documented hereditary bleeding disorder.
It's link to HIV is noted in the text, not a very strong link with today's medicine though.
It does not flat out kill them in and of its self, though it has been shown to delay the onset of puberty, and it of course leaves the body very lacking in the immune system area.
Comments
Of course not, that is why this is a discussion forum.
It doesn't make it any less silly however.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
It's failed time and time again because most can't keep their hands off each other. Abstinence would cure problems, if people actually tried it. Don't blame the cure for the lack of motivation to use that cure.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except you are missing key parts of the ecology of AIDs that confound your rather flowers and roses 'solution'. The first problem is in 3rd world countries, they are forced to reuse needles due to the lack of any sort of supply at all. As such they are forced to reuse syringes and even blood from transfusions basically quite often. This benefits the microbe by leaps and bounds, aiding its rapid spread through the population.
If you stopped injecting drug users and people having promiscuous sex, you'd just ensure that they'd get it from their doctors from getting a vaccination. Alternatively, you can then force them into a choice of getting it from reused needles and dying in 20 years time, or getting a lethal bacterial/viral infection and dying now.
Isn't that a great choice?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The thing that's wrong with sex is those that have sex outside of marriage. Don't believe me? We're talking about AIDs, aren't we? Case in point.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, how delightfully narrow minded and ignorant.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh... okay, so that makes the root cause of AIDs moot? Stop using drugs! Ding ding ding - problem solved!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a brilliant solution. How about you go to Africa and say to someone who's just come in, well I'm sorry I can't give your son antibiotics to cure their <i>Streptococcus pneumoniae</i> as I can't reuse these needles...
I'm 100% sure you'd be proud to attend their sons funeral 5-6 days later.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Perhaps if the parents of such children would stop sleeping around it would stop! Good grief, it doesn't take a scientist to figure out this stuff!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which, clearly you aren't.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not sure how this makes a debate topic then. Are we all supposed to say "Yay, a cure was found"?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, but to debate the merits of it and if it has any real possible applications (See my post earlier).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The attention to HIV/AIDs, and the way it has been portrayed on the media outlets is frustrating, and also disheartening. I find them morally bankrupt, and definitely blind to the real problem that causes AIDs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look in a mirror and actually do some research on why AIDs is truely rampant.
Next, we'll do a hypothetical experiment where I can show you scans of 20 people and we'll find out if YOU can pick the one with AIDs.
Won't that be fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, like most modern medicine, people seem focused on curing the symptoms, and not the root cause of the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, and I'm 100% sure you'll be pleased to donate some of your salary to buy new needles for the millions of people in 3rd world countries who can't get a safe supply of them.
Try not to think of things as being purely black and white. Simply because it is an STD doesn't mean it is JUST transmitted through sexual intercourse.
Oh... okay, so that makes the root cause of AIDs moot? Stop using drugs! Ding ding ding - problem solved! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, a cure and prevention are very different. I can't believe you would call that an argument over semantics. They are very different things, stop insinuating otherwise. Someone afflicted with AIDs doesn't 'cure' themselves by abstaining. And if they could, they would. There's plenty of motivation there. Prevention however is just increasing the statistics. For example, by not jumping into traffic, I am decreasing the risk of getting hit by a car. By abstaining from sex you are decreasing the risk of getting AIDs
However a with pharmological cures there are no statistics. Take this pill and you get better, end of story.
Yes, cures do <b>have </b>to be easy, at least far easier then changing the social behavior of millions of people. If you think it would require billions of dollars to find a cure for AIDs, it would cost at least that to indoctrinate a nation on the perils of unsafe sex, as well as curing drug addiction.
Like I said, if we could wave our magic wands and make it happen, we would. But drug addiction and promiscuity are the most primal of instincts (in the case of drug addiction, it becomes as necessary as food). It's easier to find a cure then to change these cultural habits, especially since habits can also revert back to their original state. But a cure is a cure.
From an ecological perspective, I wonder how darwinistic this could get. I know it sounds horribly Machiavellian, but the people that will survive AIDs will be the one's who are either 1) genetically resistant 2) don't have the behaviors that cause infection. This would spread to their offspring one would think. However living in Africa isn't just about beating AIDs. I can imagine how difficult it would be to survive when thousands of people you depend on are dying all around you. It really is a desparate situation.
Try not to think of things as being purely black and white. Simply because it is an STD doesn't mean it is JUST transmitted through sexual intercourse. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the number one issue in this whole thing it seems. The mistaken conception of what AIDS is. Aegeri, you seem to have a rather firm concept, but many others fail to understan exactly how this disease is spread outside of their (sheltered and narrow) lives/viewpoints.
Let's break this down folks:
One, AIDS is NOT an STD, though one infection vector is through sexual intercourse.
Two, AIDS is NOT a "black and white" issue. Truly, I don't advocate the cure due to the current trend in human demographics and the population projections I've seen lately. Humanity eating itself out of earth and home is NOT something I wish to see, despite the current cost of life. Why cure my grandfather of something if it will result in my own children paying the costs--monetarily and physically--down the road? However, the "cure" or "treatment" is but one of many possible strategies for fighting it--just as abstinence seems to be to many.
Three, AIDS is NOT a single-vector disease, and has many opportunities to attack one's body--blood mingling through the use of shared bandaging (recently used on someone else...think along the lines of a cotton towel/rag/gauze that is soaked, wrung, and then re-used due to lack of replacements); used needles (due to an extreme deficiency of the proper supplies for medical teams in Africa) from hospitals/clinics/biovuoac points/refugee camps; re-used needles for drug use, even some drug as benign as insulin (don't have diabetes figures on Africa handy :/) or as dangerous as heroin; sexual intercourse.
Seriously, you need to do a LOT more research if you're thinking "abstinence and avoidance of drugs/sex is the key to AIDS treatment"....even if that were the current regime of "treatment," that would leave two separate generations of people floundering, as we would not give treatment to the current cases or the children born with it from those cases. Wake up son, open your eyes....I <i>promise</i> there's a life beyond the doors to the church and your parents' house. Some of us have seen what life does to those who "fall by the wayside" so to speak. That may seem condescending, but look back in 5 years and then re-evaluate the stance you take today--I guarantee it will have changed in some fashion.
Basically, I wouldn't get overly excited yet.
This is an approach to curing the actual cause... The virus. You can continue on with your statements if you want, but they make no sense. Its like wanting to blame gun companies for the attrocities committed by criminals.
It's just this stigma that people commonly throw at abstinence because they feel threatened by religion and all the ideas that have had anything to do with religious practice past or present.
All this particular course of action is is breeding the virus out of the population. Since the virus in not genetic, it should take a surprisingly short amount of time. Only 2-3 generations.
The troubles with this particular cure is:
1. How are we going to get the entire world population on the same page? A tremendous task whether the idea is tacked onto religion or not.
2. How are we going to adjust for non-sexual infections of HIV? They happen, as the good people of this forum have noted.
3. What do we do with the already infected? If left to freely move about in society there is a chance an accident would occur and by Murphy's law if there is a chance...it will (I know for a fact grown men have choked themselves to death on rubber ducks accidentally). It is by all means possible to round them all up and seperate them from society, but there would be some serious humanitarian concerns.
Do this or not, ten...twenty years from now we will have the vaccine, give it to everyone and let them live their lives as they will until the next super nasty sexually transmitted disease rears its head.
Personally, I'm gonna just stay really selective about partners in any intimate activity. I am not pleased with the idea of dying due to the common cold.
HIV does not kill you. It's that unforseen bout with the flu that does you in a couple years after infection.
It does, however, get passed from mother to child quite easily. Breeding it out wouldn't really work for this sort of thing.
1. How are we going to get the entire world population on the same page? A tremendous task whether the idea is tacked onto religion or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do we tell the entire world to stop having sex?
Easy. Just tell everyone that Rosie O'donnell got married to her same sex girlfriend.
1. How are we going to get the entire world population on the same page? A tremendous task whether the idea is tacked onto religion or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do we tell the entire world to stop having sex?
Easy. Just tell everyone that Rosie O'donnell got married to her same sex girlfriend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Mar 3 2004, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Mar 3 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The troubles with this particular cure is:
1. How are we going to get the entire world population on the same page? A tremendous task whether the idea is tacked onto religion or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do we tell the entire world to stop having sex?
Easy. Just tell everyone that Rosie O'donnell got married to her same sex girlfriend.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> I HATE you for that mental image <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It does, however, get passed from mother to child quite easily. Breeding it out wouldn't really work for this sort of thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I though that the children are killed by the disease before puberty, and have no opportunity to pass on their genetic material. So this shouldn't make a difference, unless they reach sexual maturity.
It does, however, get passed from mother to child quite easily. Breeding it out wouldn't really work for this sort of thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I though that the children are killed by the disease before puberty, and have no opportunity to pass on their genetic material. So this shouldn't make a difference, unless they reach sexual maturity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends and then doesn't depend. Depends on the type we are talking about, one is very lethal and is generally spread by reusing needles (hence why it is so infective).
I doubt one cure will deal with all three viruses.
I believe you could be thinking of hemophilia, an old and well documented hereditary bleeding disorder.
It's link to HIV is noted in the text, not a very strong link with today's medicine though.
<a href='http://www.medceu.com/tests/hemophilia.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.medceu.com/tests/hemophilia.htm</a>
As far as HIV positive children and puberty.
It does not flat out kill them in and of its self, though it has been shown to delay the onset of puberty, and it of course leaves the body very lacking in the immune system area.
<a href='http://hab.hrsa.gov/programs/factsheets/pedfact.htm' target='_blank'>http://hab.hrsa.gov/programs/factsheets/pedfact.htm</a>