Subcultures & Ns Forums
CommunistWithAGun
Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Including the discussion forums.</div> Every aspect of life that contains communication or social interaction eventually forms a culture of its own, a culture within a particular ethnic or cultural area. We live in the United States, which in itself is a culture. Then we have the NS forums, another culture. A seemingly nice, but sometimes eliteist crew who are generally well educated bunch.
Basically I made this to discuss the subculture here in the discussion forums, I'd like everyone who posts to point out aspects and give examples.
I will start.
When I come into the discussion forum I tend to just read it, the outsider if you will, because getting involved for the most part is very unsettling. It really comes off as an unfriendly place. Flames are mutated by obligitory large words, masked by "information" and are bastardized. This forum is like a motor cycle gang. Sure anyone can join but the processes of initation is intimidating and nearly not worth the time and effort.
I will be honest, this has a double meaning. I wanted to discuss subcultures, alongside the problems I see with the attitude around here. I read in the guidelines that flaming people is against the rules and is punished with a ban. I see however, flaming in nearly every thread that holds any importance. Generally I think this forum and its participants need to take a deep breath and remember its the internet, not a presidential debate. My other meaning is, even though I am not an admin, I would like to see the attitudes here improve. Its a very foreboding place. If you even think about posting you need to have several links from the leftist media handy. And you right-sided folks are quick to jump the gun and accuse people who question of being unpatriotic. So, lets see a change around here. If any of the admins here don't agree with me then lock this and we can be on with things, however I think it would be in the best interests of this forums survival to try and attract more people, and stop being so cold. Thanks for you time, and remember, its about subcultures too, so before you post make damn sure you include something about that. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Basically I made this to discuss the subculture here in the discussion forums, I'd like everyone who posts to point out aspects and give examples.
I will start.
When I come into the discussion forum I tend to just read it, the outsider if you will, because getting involved for the most part is very unsettling. It really comes off as an unfriendly place. Flames are mutated by obligitory large words, masked by "information" and are bastardized. This forum is like a motor cycle gang. Sure anyone can join but the processes of initation is intimidating and nearly not worth the time and effort.
I will be honest, this has a double meaning. I wanted to discuss subcultures, alongside the problems I see with the attitude around here. I read in the guidelines that flaming people is against the rules and is punished with a ban. I see however, flaming in nearly every thread that holds any importance. Generally I think this forum and its participants need to take a deep breath and remember its the internet, not a presidential debate. My other meaning is, even though I am not an admin, I would like to see the attitudes here improve. Its a very foreboding place. If you even think about posting you need to have several links from the leftist media handy. And you right-sided folks are quick to jump the gun and accuse people who question of being unpatriotic. So, lets see a change around here. If any of the admins here don't agree with me then lock this and we can be on with things, however I think it would be in the best interests of this forums survival to try and attract more people, and stop being so cold. Thanks for you time, and remember, its about subcultures too, so before you post make damn sure you include something about that. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And you right-sided folks are quick to jump the gun and accuse people who question of being unpatriotic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crazy, whacko, or unlearned maybe but not unpatriotic.
Which, of course, leads to my first Discussion Forum Characteristic:
<b>Egos On the Shirt Sleeve (or How to gain Victim Status)</b>
A condition we all eventually succumb to when we're feeling defensive about a certain topic. We immediately assume that every poster who disagrees with our POV must be attacking us directly. Even when a completely objective, fact dump of data is inserted without comment, it can be interepreted as an assault.
<b>The Drive By Sniping Sophist</b>
I've noticed an increase of these lately. I believe this was one of the reasons the discussion forum was isolated from the off-topic forum. Originally there were only a few of us who would take time to research a subject and post article links and expounded thoughts that could take time to read and digest. Meanwhile, posters would "drop by" and fire some off-hand remarks that served little purpose other than increasing their post count. The shield of anonymity allowed them to poke sticks in the eyes of just about anyone and never fear reprisal. I suppose there was some frustration as a result.
I'll try to comprise more later <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the flaming, if you think this is bad, try to find some of the pre-v1.00 "discussions". Downright nasty. But also very helpful. I've wondered for awhile about what always brings me back here. There are times when I'm driving home from work (30 min drive) and I'm just itching to fire up my machine and find out what new info has been posted. Early on (and sometimes lately), some of these discussions have pushed me passed the brink of maniacal incredulity. But I realized that I was learning more and more from other POVs. Sometimes I was enlightened and sometimes my theory was reinforced.
The last item that comes to mind is the immediate environment of this forum: An online action game's forum. There is a competetive nature to our pass-time and some of it carries over to the discussions. Some of the time spent here is about "one-up-manship" or "I'm smarter than you so SUYF". The worthwhile civil chatting gets trampled and forgotten soon after this starts.
Heh. You should read Al Franken's latest book for his opinion about the "leftist media."
Tempers are always going to flare where personal opinions are the actual focus of discussion. I think for the most part, people here do a decent job of sticking to the facts and attacking positions rather than people. "Ego on the sleeve" is a good description, but luckily there isn't too much of it in here.
Heh. You should read Al Franken's latest book for his opinion about the "leftist media."
Tempers are always going to flare where personal opinions are the actual focus of discussion. I think for the most part, people here do a decent job of sticking to the facts and attacking positions rather than people. "Ego on the sleeve" is a good description, but luckily there isn't too much of it in here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love Al Franken. "Lies and The Lying Liars that tell them"
I the "Don't argue with and idiot because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with his experince" quote applies here only it's more like "Don't argue with a liberal/conservative/religious/atheist person because they will beat you with their passion". After all it is very unlikely someone would chnage their relegious/political beliefs during the course of a discussion so it usually just leads to a back and forth debate, but recently they haven't been flamey at all, and MonsE and company are always ready to hand out temp bans if they do.
Oh and On Topic:
I think the Discussion Forums are like ancient Athens, a city of thinkers, where you must prove you have Discussion in your blood or be shunned by all others, there are no worries of work, for that is handled by the Creative Forums, no worry of supplying ourselves because that is handled by the General and S&I forums, and no worries of fighting because the loons in Off-topic (hehe) act as an army right before our doors. So it leaves us only to discuss and we live only to debate and think free of all other worries.
Heh. You should read Al Franken's latest book for his opinion about the "leftist media." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The funny thing is both the left and the right accuse the media of being right and left, respectively. It's absurd.
That said I think most of the media is more left than right. It's the people that are even MORE left of the media that accuse of it of being rightwing. BBC and the New York Times are classic examples of generally more leftists, while <b>the </b> class example of rightwing media is Fox News. If you want to get any credible news you're going to have to read from a bunch of different sources.
Personally I use Google News, at least then it's random!
What those of you living in the American Midwest would consider the far left end of the spectrum is barely on the right end of the accepted political palette in the German Ruhrpott. Honestly, I feel that a lot of the heat CWAG experiences stems from this: His name displays quite openly what is an extremistically leftist opinion to most of us (whether he truly <i>is</i> of that notion is a different question altogether), so he's labelled 'left' and no matter what he'll say, those considering themselves 'right' (don't you love the duality of that word) will at first try to refute him. I can easily understand why that's percieved as flaming.
Honestly, I feel we're at a point in history where left and right are indeed meaningless, because the question of 'upright' against 'corrupt', and conversely, 'authoritarian' against 'libertarian', have become predominant.
Maybe, we should take a closer look at our opponents points. I'd guess we'll all find more in common than we'd think.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Men by their makeup are naturally divided into two camps: those who fear and distrust the people and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of higher classes; and those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them the safest and most honest, if not always the wisest repository of the public interest.
These two camps exist in every country,
and wherever men are free to think, speak, and write,
they will identify themselves."
<b>Thomas Jefferson</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just as true today as it was over 200 years ago. Regardless of label, this to me is the clearest axiom that can be applied to almost any government policy.
While we may have common interests in the solution to problems, this difference will remain in how we get there.
That's a very apt analogy if ever I saw one. One must prove themselves here; if your arguements are good, you'll gain respect amongst your foes and allies. Likewise, if you make arguements based on inadequate information or in a weak fashion (as I have been guilty of on numerous occassions) you'll lose standing.
Is this a bad thing? I believe no. If a newbie drops by here and supports their arguements and makes a valid point, they'll get just as much attention and respect as a long term member (sometimes even more). This forum is much like the beta forum, where Flayra posted a very apt "If you can't take this forum, don't read it" sticky topic. The same applies here: we debate issues and topics that are often at the forefront of politics and public opinion. We get pretty serious in here, as does any debate on such topics does between adults. If you can't take it, Off-Topic is right above this forum.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This forum is like a motor cycle gang. Sure anyone can join but the processes of initation is intimidating and nearly not worth the time and effort.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure it's intimidating: we discuss intimidating topics. I'd argue that the chance to debate such hot topics with other intelligent individuals from various walks of life and varying political views is more than worth the "price" of having to back your arguement up and make a strong arguement.
If you can't take a particular arguement, don't take part. I steer well clear of religious debates in here: I'm not religious and I have no desire to debate such topics with religious individuals. Show me an Iraq War topic though and I'll dive in head first. If you take part in an arguement, but then feel it's too much for you, simply humbly withdraw. Debating at high school is something that few people take part in and even fewer succeed in. It's just the same around here. But hey; you'll never know until you try. I for one would love to see you take part in more discussions around here CWAG.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The labels 'left' and 'right' mean nothing at this point. We're from three different continents, basing our notions on several dozens of different assumptions, and have vastly varying stances towards the question of libertarianism.
What those of you living in the American Midwest would consider the far left end of the spectrum is barely on the right end of the accepted political palette in the German Ruhrpott. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point Nem. Take myself and Marine01 for example: I'm moderate left and he's moderate right here in Australia, but I'd be considered a communist in the US and Marine at best would be centre, even leaning towards the left! The thing is, not only do differant cultures and continents shape our political perceptions of others, but the political world itself is rarely so black and white as we would make it out to me. Take Bush: about as right wing as I could expect then he goes and proposes amensty to illegal immigrants, a quite leftist view. Marine the other day defended public health care: a strange thing indeed for a "conservative" to do! I've found myself advocating spending tax money on citizens, not foreigners, a rather right wing view.
These labels such as "left" and "right", "liberal" and "conservative" are blanket terms that really cannot express the political complexity of the people around the world today, especially not within this forum. I really don't think they should be used to describe members.
If we are talking about forum sub-culture, I've grown frustrated with Off-Topic. As a result of NS' growth and popularity, they shifted from an intelligent OT forum to Battle.Net-Lite. I feel the same way about General Discussion. The Constellation forum has become my new GD.
Are people quick to judge here? Probably. I think the relative coldness of debating online lets people think they can ignore the form of a face to face conversation. If John Q. Discussioner were talking about issues with someone he generally disagrees with in here in person, the change in the tone would remarkable. No jabs, flames, or short, unclarified remarks.
"The net is full of rude pedents."
"That's pedants. Idiot."