Worldmodels Thread.

Delarosa · February 2004

<div class="IPBDescription"> - link to cusomization</div> hey, just letting you know.

i'm putting al the ones that get done on my website... <a href='http://www.thrill2kill.com' target='_blank'>http://www.thrill2kill.com</a>
(go natural selection, then maps and reviews)

but you guys should know that you can request things, and check up on the progress... don't forget to include images and descriptions..

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64168' target='_blank'>Link To Thread</a>

also a trivial question to keep this thread alive... what texture should a wall-mounted monitor be themed/skinned with?

KungFuDiscoMonkey · February 2004

Sounds like a good idea although I wonder if it would be possible to move some of these 'detail models' client side to help with the entity limit. It's already tough to balance it without having all these cool models to add.

Edit: I was just thinking that most any of these models that are placed on the floor would have to interact with the player for collision detection so they would have to stay server side. Hmm :/ The entity limit can be such a bummer can't it.

Delarosa · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Feb 27 2004, 11:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sounds like a good idea although I wonder if it would be possible to move some of these 'detail models' client side to help with the entity limit. It's already tough to balance it without having all these cool models to add.

Edit: I was just thinking that most any of these models that are placed on the floor would have to interact with the player for collision detection so they would have to stay server side. Hmm :/ The entity limit can be such a bummer can't it.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
have a special entity be client side... made just for map models?

ever think about it... and/or is it possible?

Chrono · February 2004

if you can do that does that mean you can have hi detail world models?

Reese · February 2004

you can't do it though. Netcode isn't set up that way. The server insist on always knowing about anything that isn't mentioned in the mapping guidelines as an exception to the entity limit. (which basically amounts to player starts and unnamed point entities ) There is no way around it. It's unfortunate but that's how things are. Good luck trying to cram all these awesome worldmodels into your maps though...... maybe it'll finally make me better at brushwork instead of just func_walling to fix anything that's nasty.

prsearle · February 2004

Client-side world models are possible - DOD has them. Of course, they can't interact with other entities, so they have to be static .mdl's. That also means no collision detection so you have to use CLIP brushes to stop people going through them. They can be done, but it's a lot of work for the coder.

Delarosa · March 2004

<a href='http://www.thrill2kill.com/ns/maps/maps.shtml' target='_blank'>Where I Am Putting Finished Models</a>

keep checking up regularly, i'll be updating frequently.

also, if you want to create map prefabs, partial maps and anything else, PM me, i'll find a space for it.

Naghaul · March 2004

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' />
I've been mapping for some time and I found that careful planning of map architecture can almost eliminate func_seethrough use... Although there are always those tight place that can make it hard to get to... like the resource on ns_hera.. the original.
But any who! You can also use some old mapping skills and keep fracturing brushes like cylinders, 1 unit from walls, floors, and ceilings. Thus cutting down on use of func_walls.
To better hide these small spaces, texture the ends with a ?null? and then make sure lights are far enough away that the shadows will hide the spaces!
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> to some this is normal, and to others I can feel the lightbulbs! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' />

Jean_Luc_Picard · March 2004

ANd I don't have a damned clue WHAT you are saying 0o" Lol, care to say it in English for us non-mappers?

uffo · March 2004

Naghaul, are you sure you're talking in right thread? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Naghaul · March 2004

well yes! I am writing in the right thread!
I belive he was haveing problems with too many entiies... right.. and I find that too many mapper rely on func_walls to solve fractures ing the maps...
A cylinder butting up does frature the surfice that it touches.
and from what I can tell func_seethrough is used to often.
Thats why old school mapping can fix new school mapping.

1) Old school is to plan your maps.
2) Build section by section for perfection.
3) Master texture alinment.
4) Practice good vis blocking.
5) Go read all the tuts and mapping tips at
<a href='http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?area=browse' target='_blank'>Collective</a>

Thats just me helping you! Master what the Engine and the mapping tools can do.
There is only one kind of bad mapper. One that dosn't read.

Cagey · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delarosa @ Feb 27 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>have a special entity be client side... made just for map models?

ever think about it... and/or is it possible?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I'd love for future releases of NS to support client side models, sounds, static func_illusionaries for windows, etc... If Flayra and Max let me touch the mod code in the future one of the first things I'd investigate would be how to make the map limits less of an issue.

If you search back far enough, I had a bunch of suggestions in March '03 for what I'd like to have added to the code for mappers in an <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16953&hl=misc_model&st=64' target='_blank'>mapping request</a> thread that used to be stickied; that was long before I was working closely with the NS team on anything.

It's not going to happen for 3.0 because the 3.0 client has been declared feature complete/bugfix only.

Tequila · March 2004

Excellent models, I'll be sure to use a few.

uffo · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Naghaul @ Mar 2 2004, 11:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I belive he was haveing problems with too many entiies... right.. and I find that too many mapper rely on func_walls to solve fractures ing the maps...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
You're right about that. I just got bit confused when you jumped out of nowhere and start talking about how to prevent fractions... in a worldmodel thread <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
All cleared out now

Naghaul · March 2004

Right, world models, I figued by lowering Func_ entities, that one could lower the entities totals and could then inrease the number of worldmodels.. sorry I didn't claify....

On an other thought.. you could try combineing func_enties togethter.. IE all func_walls in one room made into One. you can do this for Func_Wall, func Ilutionary, BUT not Func_ladder...

that can help... but I think Illutionary get droped anywho!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

prsearle · March 2004

The only things that get dropped for func_illusionary entities is the clipnodes. The entity still exists and sucks up CPU time. As far as I know, there's no way to move func_ entities to the client, so we're stuck with them. What can be done is moving .mdl entities (cycler-type things) and .spr (env_sprite/glow) entities to the client - DoD does this. It does, however, require coding on the client-side.

Incidentally, I went through the entities in the standard NS maps and found that if client-entities like this were implemented, then ns_hera's entity count could be reduced by about 47. Lets hope this feature can be squeezed into the next client update <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Naigel · March 2004

Could you guys post the models wich are completely done here? It would be way easier than searching for download url's in that other thread.

Delarosa · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Naigel @ Mar 3 2004, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Could you guys post the models wich are completely done here? It would be way easier than searching for download url's in that other thread.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
hence the point of my webpage... (which i've posted in this thread twice)

it might be slower updating than the forums, but it's more effective.

SamR · March 2004

Argh! All the photos are EVIL! look at them! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' />

Worldmodels Thread.

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