Combat Maps All Need The Same Improvements.
explodingheadboy
Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15636Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15636Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Map design isn't conducive to gameplay.</div> After playing combat for quite a while I've stopped enjoying the gametype. It's not a balance issue, it just seems that every single combat map is plagued by the same flaws. Flaws that make it difficult to play.
Every single co map needs:
o A better mix of large and small spaces.
o More space around the hive.
o Bigger spawn rooms, so spawncamping isn't as easy.
To elaborate on each point. The strength of a lot of the classic maps is that there is a good deal of variation between wide open spaces, and narrow sjhort spaces. In the former a marine typically has an advantage, and in the latter an alien would have the advantage.
In combat, there isn't enough much variation or the variation is poor, and one team tends to have an advantage that way.
Also, its frustrating to play on the alien team and be attacked because the area where each and every hive is is usually surrounded by walls and claustrophobic. This makes it very hard to defend, because there is so little space that aliens frequently get in each others way, or the hive itself becomes a hinderance to fight around. What makes it worse is that in an area as compact as most of the hive locations in combat, grenade spam simply can't miss.
Defending against Jetpacks is a big problem. Lerks frequently miss because the hive gets in the way of their movement, fades have an even tougher time for the same reason, skulks usually get taken out by GL spam in the hive, and onos simply can't help until the jetpacker hits the ground.
Finally, spawncamping tends to be the way a game ends, or begins, this is frustrating and it isn't fun for either team. It only serves to make players angry. But, if the spawn rooms were larger players would be less likely to spawn right next to an enemy that can annihilate them with one attack. Be it a shotgun, or a focus equipped alien. If players spawned in with some space between them and their foes, they might at least stand a chance defending.
Every single co map needs:
o A better mix of large and small spaces.
o More space around the hive.
o Bigger spawn rooms, so spawncamping isn't as easy.
To elaborate on each point. The strength of a lot of the classic maps is that there is a good deal of variation between wide open spaces, and narrow sjhort spaces. In the former a marine typically has an advantage, and in the latter an alien would have the advantage.
In combat, there isn't enough much variation or the variation is poor, and one team tends to have an advantage that way.
Also, its frustrating to play on the alien team and be attacked because the area where each and every hive is is usually surrounded by walls and claustrophobic. This makes it very hard to defend, because there is so little space that aliens frequently get in each others way, or the hive itself becomes a hinderance to fight around. What makes it worse is that in an area as compact as most of the hive locations in combat, grenade spam simply can't miss.
Defending against Jetpacks is a big problem. Lerks frequently miss because the hive gets in the way of their movement, fades have an even tougher time for the same reason, skulks usually get taken out by GL spam in the hive, and onos simply can't help until the jetpacker hits the ground.
Finally, spawncamping tends to be the way a game ends, or begins, this is frustrating and it isn't fun for either team. It only serves to make players angry. But, if the spawn rooms were larger players would be less likely to spawn right next to an enemy that can annihilate them with one attack. Be it a shotgun, or a focus equipped alien. If players spawned in with some space between them and their foes, they might at least stand a chance defending.
Comments
I disagree 100%.
co_core has, hands down, the best map design I've ever seen.
It is constructed so that once the marine team takes the middle area, it is an easy step to the hive, as you can damage it directly without actually moving into the hive room. Because the marines can damage the hive from the middle part of the map, this forces people to move out and fight for the middle area, thus promoting a LOT of activity and action.
co_core is the only co map I have fun playing on now. While marines can camp on co_core, they can camp on ANY co map so this is a gameplay issue and not a map design one.
The marine spawn of co_core isn't that cramped unless you have more than 6 people in it. In which case, tough nuggets get out of spawn. co was intended for small amounts of people.
Also, I have no troubles at all killing JP'ers as a fade or lerk. Mutliple onos can cover the hive very well on co_core as well, as the corridors around it are onos hieght only. 2 Onos and a lerk and fade make an impentatrible fortress to the hive room.
Well, back in the days of 1.04 the mapping guidelines explicitly stated that neither vents, nor other rooms should have a direct line of fire to the hive. And I don't think they've changed that since then.
In fact a lot of the map tweaks since 2.0 and 3.0 have changed maps to fix things like vents that you could shoot the hive from, or rooms, etc.
The idea was that if you were going to assault the hive you'd either have to move into the hive room to attack it, or set up a siege outpost nearby. Not just camp outside a dooway, or in a vent and shoot the hive down.
I don't see why the same ideas weren't passed on to the co_* map designs.
Well, back in the days of 1.04 the mapping guidelines explicitly stated that neither vents, nor other rooms should have a direct line of fire to the hive. And I don't think they've changed that since then.
In fact a lot of the map tweaks since 2.0 and 3.0 have changed maps to fix things like vents that you could shoot the hive from, or rooms, etc.
The idea was that if you were going to assault the hive you'd either have to move into the hive room to attack it, or set up a siege outpost nearby. Not just camp outside a dooway, or in a vent and shoot the hive down.
I don't see why the same ideas weren't passed on to the co_* map designs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you set up seiges in combat?
Didn't think so.
If you go back in read the mapping guidelines you will see several distinctions are made for combat maps.
Combat maps should be more deathmatchy, multi-layered floors are encouraged, etc. etc.
But that's why I like it though! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In the middle area there are two rafters for the aliens to stay on.
The lower one, the rafter that is closet to the lower entry way to the hive (and where you can shoot it from) there should be a vent leading on that rafter from the hive room.
That would make the middle area a nice bloodbath.
I can only talk from my experiences on the servers I play on, but large marine spawns such as the spawn of co_rebirth make focus lerks and fades unstoppable.
Even a focus skulk with leap can spawn rape like mad in the rebirth MS. I'm not sure what the answer is, but more spacious marine spawns won't solve anything